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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:29:08 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


One has to be staggeringly stupid to march in lockstep with the leftists on this issue, actually

And of nature, leftists act as though it is some form of holy of holies deity, though most leftists at the same time claim to be nonreligious

Nature as we know it is finite, regardless of our actions.

So let us enjoy and use nature in the short time that we are here, the best that we are able

And let the leftists go back to living in the cold dark caves where they will be happiest

And under the troll bridges as well

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The stupidity of the notion that you have to be leftist to worry about possible globalwarming is staggering beyond belief. Whatever else, mankind is having a drastic effect on nature and not only on this issue.


Sanity, if leftists are the only ones claiming that Global warming exists, why, then, is Exxon/Mobile making plans to exploit the mineral wealth of the arctic seabed when the ice cap is gone? It's in their future corporate plans and they plan to make a good chunk of change off of it.

Is Exxon/Mobile a leftist organization?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:31:43 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


One has to be staggeringly stupid to march in lockstep with the leftists on this issue, actually

And of nature, leftists act as though it is some form of holy of holies deity, though most leftists at the same time claim to be nonreligious

Nature as we know it is finite, regardless of our actions.

So let us enjoy and use nature in the short time that we are here, the best that we are able

And let the leftists go back to living in the cold dark caves where they will be happiest

And under the troll bridges as well

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The stupidity of the notion that you have to be leftist to worry about possible globalwarming is staggering beyond belief. Whatever else, mankind is having a drastic effect on nature and not only on this issue.




Yada yada yada, more nonsense blaming the left for anything you dont like.

Do you have any facts to back up this bullshit or not ? My guess would be not, given I am right leaning and worried about mans effect on the earth.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:35:36 AM   
provfivetine


Posts: 410
Joined: 2/17/2011
Status: offline 		This issue is far from settled. Even if it is confirmed that humans contribute to "climate change" then it is hardly considered "settled;" scientists of all stripes will disagree regarding how much weight to assign each variable.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:36:08 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		No doubt a few on here will argue about the photos of Alaska, that Bush tried to hide, which clearly show the ice caps melting.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jul/26/climate-change-obama-administration

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:36:40 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


One has to be staggeringly stupid to march in lockstep with the leftists on this issue, actually

And of nature, leftists act as though it is some form of holy of holies deity, though most leftists at the same time claim to be nonreligious





but those in lockstep with the right are??????


  You are entitled to your own opinion,  you are not entitled to your own "facts" 

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:37:38 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

This issue is far from settled. Even if it is confirmed that humans contribute to "climate change" then it is hardly considered "settled;" scientists of all stripes will disagree regarding how much weight to assign each variable.



So what, nothing in the report says its settled, just what is likely to happen given the known facts. It doesnt alter the fact change IS taking place.

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:49:06 AM   
SilverBoat


Posts: 257
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline 		Well, I'm not a climate scientist, but I'm an engineer who didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night ...

http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/carbon_cycle 

I don't know if that schematic shows the latest and greatest figures, but it's close enough for discussion purposes.

A few relevant points:
- The Earth currently radiates more heat than it absorbs (it had a lot of kinetic energy from accumulating, and there's nuclear decay continuing).
- In a few billion years, that will change, as the Sun enters its red-giant phase (okay, maybe not so relevant at the moment).
- Its core temperature is about 4000-5000 *C, and mantle temperatures range from 500-900 *C.
- The crust and atmosphere temperatures range from 400 to -200 *C (or so).
- The background temperature of empty space is -270*C.

So, basically, we're standing on a 7000-mile glob of molten metal, with its top 1500-miles sort of slushy, and we've got about 20 miles of slag under our feet, and about 20 miles of air and steam over our heads. For the last billion years or so, there's been some seesawing of water between solid, liquid and vapor forms. There's some plausible evidence that various life-forms sequestered enough (maybe 99%?) of the atmospheric carbon during the previous couple of 'hot' billion years to mostly do themselves in by chill or starvation, or at least relegate themselves to deepwater thermal vents, etc. We're at least third-generation life forms, parasites dependent on vegetation that depended on chemosynth or something from billions of years ago.  

I dunno where the tipping points are on that, but yanno, neither does anybody else. Dumping significant amounts of carbon etc back into the atmosphere doesn't seem circumspect, because it might be the equivalent of roofing over the layers of insulation with tinfoil; things will get hotter underneath.

...

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:53:18 AM   
provfivetine


Posts: 410
Joined: 2/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
So what, nothing in the report says its settled, just what is likely to happen given the known facts. It doesnt alter the fact change IS taking place.


Sure. But what can be done about it?

Stopping the increase in carbon emissions would require such a drastic change in living that it won't be supported by the public. Also, even if Western countries somehow agree to take action, it won't matter. Good luck convincing China and India about implementing similar measures.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 10:12:42 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
The supposed ‘consensus’ on man-made global warming is facing an inconvenient challenge after the release of new temperature data showing the planet has not warmed for the past 15 years. The figures suggest that we could even be heading for a mini ice age to rival the 70-year temperature drop that saw frost fairs held on the Thames in the 17th Century.

Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.

Meanwhile, leading climate scientists yesterday told The Mail on Sunday that, after emitting unusually high levels of energy throughout the 20th Century, the sun is now heading towards a ‘grand minimum’ in its output, threatening cold summers, bitter winters and a shortening of the season available for growing food.Tune in next week for more "Settled Science."

K.



You fell for this? Are you truly so scientifically illiterate that you didn't understand the denialist scam in that claim?

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 11:14:27 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
So what, nothing in the report says its settled, just what is likely to happen given the known facts. It doesnt alter the fact change IS taking place.


Sure. But what can be done about it?

Stopping the increase in carbon emissions would require such a drastic change in living that it won't be supported by the public. Also, even if Western countries somehow agree to take action, it won't matter. Good luck convincing China and India about implementing similar measures.


Sea farming? Seeding more plankton in the ocean.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 11:16:54 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
So what, nothing in the report says its settled, just what is likely to happen given the known facts. It doesnt alter the fact change IS taking place.


Sure. But what can be done about it?

Stopping the increase in carbon emissions would require such a drastic change in living that it won't be supported by the public. Also, even if Western countries somehow agree to take action, it won't matter. Good luck convincing China and India about implementing similar measures.


Sea farming? Seeding more plankton in the ocean.

With the nutrients presently in the upper 200 meters of the worlds oceans, Plankton populations are presently at or very close to carrying capacity for the environment. Microphytes are fast reproducing and will totally fill any given environment to the limit allowed by predators and resources within a very short time.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 11:42:05 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

British summers will get hotter while winters will be milder and wetter, according to the £2.8 million report. It warned the hotter summers could result in up to 5,900 extra deaths a year by 2050.... However, authors admit to uncertainties within their computer models


5900 extra deaths a year by 2050? Shit, is that all? Hardly will meet our Malthusian needs to off-set the burgeoning world population. Really, war is much more efficient.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 11:46:25 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

The evolution algorithm is implacable. We will either evolve to be fatter, in order to better float, or we will evolve to be taller, in order that our noses will not be submerged, or we will evolve gills, in order to get a measly bit of oxygen from the water.


Or our species will perish. WTF? Where is it written we are destined to be here forever? Didn't both Jesus and Paul say the end would come within their time? Overdue, innit? Waiting for the Son of Man

Kudos on the "float" option

< Message edited by vincentML -- 1/29/2012 11:47:31 AM >

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 7:26:39 PM   
InvisibleBlack


Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

British summers will get hotter while winters will be milder and wetter, according to the £2.8 million report. It warned the hotter summers could result in up to 5,900 extra deaths a year by 2050.... However, authors admit to uncertainties within their computer models


5900 extra deaths a year by 2050? Shit, is that all? Hardly will meet our Malthusian needs to off-set the burgeoning world population. Really, war is much more efficient.


Plague is even more efficient. Genetically tailored nanoviruses. Distributed in flu shots. Activated by the airport scanners. Triggered December 21st, 2012.

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:33:10 PM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline 		Damn, that's shades of pahunk.

Dump enough fresh water into the Atlantic (due to ice thawing) and you may start a mini ice age by disrupting thermohaline circulation.  The gulf stream would stop.

The ocean's in trouble due to acidification and that's starting to hammer plankton, corals, etc.

Oh yeah, the US Department of Defense is by no means "leftist", and they looks closely at the side effects of warming in respect to food shortages, potable water shortages, drought, etc. and their effects on national security.

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:06:32 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
So what, nothing in the report says its settled, just what is likely to happen given the known facts. It doesnt alter the fact change IS taking place.


Sure. But what can be done about it?

Stopping the increase in carbon emissions would require such a drastic change in living that it won't be supported by the public. Also, even if Western countries somehow agree to take action, it won't matter. Good luck convincing China and India about implementing similar measures.


Sea farming? Seeding more plankton in the ocean.

With the nutrients presently in the upper 200 meters of the worlds oceans, Plankton populations are presently at or very close to carrying capacity for the environment. Microphytes are fast reproducing and will totally fill any given environment to the limit allowed by predators and resources within a very short time.


Fine! Just kill my idea of plankton farms with modified dolphins helping to farm them!

Did you read about these though?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/16/criegee_biradicals/print.html

And:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/12/us-molecule-climate-idUSTRE80B1U820120112
quote:

The molecules detected by the research team occur naturally in the presence of alkenes, chemical compounds which are mostly released by plants.

"Plants will release these compounds, make the biradicals and end up making sulphuric acid, so in effect the ecosystem can negate the warming effect by producing these cooling aerosols," Percival said.


Which means that plankton produces them.



So bring on the modified, talking dolphins for farming! YAY!

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:49:07 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69

Damn, that's shades of pahunk.


What happened to him?


_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to outhere69)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Settled Science - 1/30/2012 4:45:12 PM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline 		Someone here (can't remember offhand) said that he wanted to take a break for a bit.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Settled Science - 1/30/2012 7:56:04 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		politesub, Have you been watching the weather in Alaska ? The high temp today was 27 degrees below zero. The low was minus 44. 16 days this month the low temp has been - 40 or lower. This is the coldest winter they have had since 1971. I guess that settles it.

(in reply to outhere69)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Settled Science - 1/31/2012 10:12:17 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

politesub, Have you been watching the weather in Alaska ? The high temp today was 27 degrees below zero. The low was minus 44. 16 days this month the low temp has been - 40 or lower. This is the coldest winter they have had since 1971. I guess that settles it.



I am not sure what you are getting it, since your posts are generally oblique.

What settles what, exactly ?

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 40
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