RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (Full Version)

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Louve00 -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 2:29:51 PM)

I think, after 8 pages of this debate that someone would realize that religion is based on faith (as tazzy stated in this thread somewhere already). If you have faith that there is a God, then to you, he would be very real. If you have no faith that there is a God, you will not consider him real. It is a matter of what you wish to believe, and whatever one believes is up to the believer. Now, they have found what is nicknamed the "God Particle" (Higgs boson), and scientists think they not only found it, but they know where in our universe it lies. But the God particle isn't God.

The God Particle :)

*edited to add this is not in reply to anyone's post, in particular. But as you were all debating about God, the God particle came to my mind.



PeonForHer -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 4:17:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00
Now, they have found what is nicknamed the "God Particle" (Higgs boson), and scientists think they not only found it, but they know where in our universe it lies. But the God particle isn't God.


. . . Or if it is, it's a pretty unsatisfying sort of god.  I doubt that the Higgs Boson even has a white beard, let alone that it looks like Burt Lancaster.



tazzygirl -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 4:24:32 PM)

[image]http://celebritywonder.ugo.com/mp/2003_Bruce_Almighty/2003_bruce_almighty_011.jpg[/image]

Or this

[image]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_KtOEDjqBEnk/S8GOeXZT6kI/AAAAAAAADKc/sDk0W-tnRdo/s320/George20Burns20in20Oh20God.jpg[/image]



Fightdirecto -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 5:49:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
(yes IMO atheism IS a belief system, just like religion is a belief system. Neither are "fact" based)


I've already addressed why that is not the case, by the way.

I respectfully disagree.

My dictionary (the kind that is made of paper pages bound together & sits on my desk) defines "belief" as
quote:

something believed, an opinion or conviction not immediately susceptable to rigorous proof
A religious person or theist holds the opinion or conviction that there is a God or Goddess or multiple Gods. This opinion or conviction cannot be proved by impartial, unbiased facts.

An atheist holds the opinion or conviction that there is no God or Goddess or multiple Gods - and this opinion or conviction ALSO cannot be proved
by impartial, unbiased facts.

Ergo, atheism is a belief just as theism is a belief.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 5:58:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySaty
They have this deep-seeded need to abolish any and all belief in anything that may be omnipotent. Why?

Oh, it's not restricted to things that posses omnipotents. Skeptics are opposed to all forms of woo-woo.



It's interesting that you accuse others of constructing strawmen but that's pretty much what you've done with my post, here. Let's look at it in a bit more context?

quote:

ORIGINAL DaddySatyr

I have met people that identify as "atheist" and "Agnostic" who, by everything they say, are neither. They are bent on wiping out the belief in a Supreme Being, everywhere. I've had some tell me that it bothers them that I pray over my food. It bothers them ? Why? It's offensive? How?

If someone tells me they believe in little green men from Mars. It doesn't offend me. I think the belief is pretty silly but I keep that to myself. I don't feel the need to wipe out their belief in little green men and their belief in those little green men is not "offensive" to me.

Why then do these people seem bent on destroying all belief in a Supreme Being? I won't call them "Atheist" or "Agnostic" because they're not. They're "God haters". They have this deep-seeded need to abolish any and all belief in anything that may be omnipotent. Why?



So, I am not talking about people that just doubt my belief and go on their merry little way. Your not-so-subtle put-down of what I may or may not believe (woo-woo) pretty much tells me that you feel the need I described in my above re-quoted post.

So, I was not describing atheists or agnostics. I was talking about the anti-God zealots that have this need to make sure no one believes in any kind of higher power. I have found that it's usually because they consider themselves to be the higher power and can't stand people worshipping anyone that isn't them.



Peace and comfort,



Michael



PeonForHer -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 6:08:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

An atheist holds the opinion or conviction that there is no God or Goddess or multiple Gods - and this opinion or conviction ALSO cannot be proved
by impartial, unbiased facts.

Ergo, atheism is a belief just as theism is a belief.


To be fair, none of us is able to prove that there aren't giant plates of malevolent spaghetti flying towards the Earth ready to obliterate it, nor that I should be Emperor of All Earth, or that my buttocks aren't holy and shouldn't be worshipped by every living being. 

It's impossible to disprove a negative.  But, the point is, why should anyone bother?  For me, now, it's of as much use and  importance to disprove the existence of God as it is to disprove the existence of giant white rabbits with magical powers. 

But, would you call my non-belief in giant white rabbits with magical powers a 'belief system' just because I've said I don't believe in them?  Really, that's pushing it, isn't it?



Kirata -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 6:27:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

It's impossible to disprove a negative.

It is most certainly possible to disprove a negative. A claim that there are no black swans, for example, can be readily disproved by producing one. I think you meant to say that it is not possible to prove a negative.

But, you won't get any traction there, either, because the claim that it is not possible to prove a negative is itself asserting a negative. If a negative can't be proven then the claim is hot air. It can't be proven to be true.

And if somehow it could, then it would be false. [:)]

K.




Louve00 -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 6:30:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


. . . Or if it is, it's a pretty unsatisfying sort of god.  I doubt that the Higgs Boson even has a white beard, let alone that it looks like Burt Lancaster.


LOL...quite so!! I doubt that Higgs boson has a white beard or looks like anything familiar to us. I also doubt it will answer your prayers or guide you, should you find yourself talking to it. In fact, I'm betting as important as it is to the scientists, its something we can't even see. And until I read about the God particle, had no clue scientists were searching for it.

So ok, based on scientific theory (or suspicion, which we may consider their belief), God wasn't responsible for the big bang.

Or was he?? Wonder who (or what) is responsible for the Higgs boson to be there to begin with.

(I suppose this can be argued in circles until we all get tired of it!)



Louve00 -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 6:32:22 PM)

Or even George Burns, tazzy. Even though he did play God in a movie! [8D]



PeonForHer -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 6:35:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

It's impossible to disprove a negative.

It is most certainly possible to disprove a negative. A claim that there are no black swans, for example, can be readily disproved by producing one. I think you meant to say that it is not possible to prove a negative. But you won't get any traction there either, because the claim that it is not possible to prove a negative is itself asserting a negative. If a negative can't be proven then the claim is hot air, because it can't be proven to be true. And if somehow it could, then it would be false.

K.



Whew.  I thought for a minute you were going to tell me that there were no giant white rabbits with magical powers.  I can see now that you're much too wise to have made that mistake.  I wouldn't have wanted to have to accuse you of having a NonHarveyist belief system, either.  [;)]



PeonForHer -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 6:38:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Or even George Burns, tazzy. Even though he did play God in a movie! [8D]


I'm afraid I could never have believed George Burns as God.  He's too short and wears glasses.  And he speaks with an American accent.



tazzygirl -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 6:40:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Or even George Burns, tazzy. Even though he did play God in a movie! [8D]


I'm afraid I could never have believed George Burns as God.  He's too short and wears glasses.  And he speaks with an American accent.


Have you seen the movie? He explains that.



Kirata -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 6:40:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I thought for a minute you were going to tell me that there were no giant white rabbits with magical powers.

I would never say such a thing. I like Harvey. [:D]

K.



LookieNoNookie -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 6:43:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: doctorgrey

yes, it IS offensive, but then, so is the notion of god.

DrG



Here's what someone told me a loooooong time ago:

"Imagine there was this giant explosion (the Big Bang) and that everything was created from nothing (makes sense.....if there was always something....it had to come from somewhere, ergo, at one time there had to have been nothing). Now imagine everything you see today (here...next to you, what you see every day), how well it works intertwined, ad infinitum......

It's the equivalent of having 500 kabillion decks of cards....all shuffled together.....and the next 4,000,000 hands all come out a straight flush. Every time.

That's Earth."

That's God.



Louve00 -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 6:49:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


I'm afraid I could never have believed George Burns as God.  He's too short and wears glasses.  And he speaks with an American accent.


Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
~John 7:24
English Standard Version (ESV) [;)]



PeonForHer -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 6:53:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Or even George Burns, tazzy. Even though he did play God in a movie! [8D]


I'm afraid I could never have believed George Burns as God.  He's too short and wears glasses.  And he speaks with an American accent.


Have you seen the movie? He explains that.


I have, albeit a long time ago.  I did think it was excellent, though.  Seriously, I can't think of a better casting than George Burns, with the possible exception of Morgan Freeman.



SternSkipper -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 7:23:05 PM)

Thanks to Tazzy and her sweet cheeks... I have unequivocal proof of god.... How about a little

MIRACLE



tazzygirl -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 8:01:39 PM)

LOL

Purrrrrrrrrrrrfect!



tweakabelle -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 10:12:11 PM)

quote:


It's the equivalent of having 500 kabillion decks of cards....all shuffled together.....and the 4,000,000 hands all come out a straight flush. Every time.

That's Earth."

That's God.


So God is .... 4, 000, 000 straight flushes ....... cute definition (though the logic is rather questionable).

That's probably why all the born-agains aren't in Vegas staking everything they've got against the house.



SternSkipper -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/6/2012 10:37:56 PM)

quote:

LOL

Purrrrrrrrrrrrfect!


Couldn't have done it without ya
<wink>




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