RE: The emotional side of Mastership

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LunaM -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/20/2012 10:59:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaptJosh Wait, there are people who believe you can't leave once you submit? Ok, I already had a mild headache, and that just hurt my brain. Ow... Have you ever read The Story of O? This seems akin to what I read there. Her total submission is what they are after and once it is given, she can never take it back. Very good story with interesting points. It was actually the first story I read after My Master and I began our journey into BDSM/Kink world. Basically, what I get from it, is that they view submission as the utmost gift that once it is given it can never be ungiven.

RedMagic1 -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/20/2012 11:00:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ohanasvib A slave's acceptance, (The pivot point) As a Master, one may think you grab a woman with a fist full of hair and drive her into submission whether it be sexual or BDSM and she is to perform to unrealistic expectations. The reality could not be farther from the truth... At least foe me. It truly begins with a relationship filled with love, respect and TRUST, in time, it is the responsibility of the sub/slave to offer her self in service or as possession, I call this the pivotal point of the total power exchange. Newbie Dom/Masters commonly miss this or deny this in haste as a means to .... well you know the rest... Short term or casual play is one thing BUT, accepting the slave and the responsibility for her also means fulfilling her emotional needs, this is not a small milestone. Before you say, "but she is a slave, she has no rights to feelings.". To you I say Wake up ! Is she less than a dog ?even a dog has feelings, she may be a slave in her heart, she may long to serve but when she is happily and emotionally secure and invested she is then free with the power to serve beyond your dreams and desires. Taking responsibility for her is to accept full responsibility for her heart and happiness. You think you are going to keep an unfulfilled and unhappy woman because you can overpower her? Your life will be miserable because she is. Remember who is in charge and controlling the future. Be a real Master! Yes domination is a part, but it is equally balanced with important fulfillment of her needs. Will she serve without it? Perhaps, for a while. The question is, "is she serving because it is a part of who she is and overbearing shallow dominance is forced at the time? Or is it love from the depths of her soul. Remember this, when she is in her zone of fulfilled emotional needs you will receive her gifts beyond all expectations. My happiness as Master starts with my responsibility to her for both of us. I don't think your experience in the BDSM scene is broad. Perhaps the limitations to your post are easiest to see in how male subs relate to femdoms. A significant percentage of malesubs explicitly request to be treated as worthless, as losers, as cuckolds who serve but do not receive any form of romance, or even affection, in return. Some women do this too, but not as many, and I think the primary reason for that is that they can find that easily in vanilla, no need to come to kink to be humiliated by a guy. However, there are definitely female subs into objectification, and who feel uncomfortable with the idea of being romantically attached to a dominant. Did you "grow up" reading CastleRealm? That's what it looks like. I stopped reading posts on page one, because this thread looked as though it was turning bad. But I think you expected everyone to agree with something "obvious," whereas I don't think what you said is obvious at all, because it isn't correct for a great many kinksters. I'm glad you have found your bliss, if, indeed, you have.

JeffBC -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/20/2012 11:33:21 AM)
OK, because I think that somehow this thread has gotten onto a really interesting twist, I'll go on (and perhaps because maybe I actually am a sadist and making poor Josh's head hurt tickles me somehow)... I'll talk about the one couple that I know in the real world well enough to speak with some reasonable belief that I won't get it totally wrong. In their case, she is neither "submissive" nor "obedient". She is property... plain and simple. It is not her submission which is given -- of which she has precious little LOL. Rather, it is herself. The drivers, as I understand them, are very pragmatic -- having nothing to do with any sort of fantasy. I think the fantasy part adds a cool vibe to it, but the real reasons have more to do with the two personalities involved and what would most effectively maintain the marriage. If she "fled" he might well go retrieve her... with the full understanding that this is kidnapping and if he makes the wrong choice he goes to jail for a long time. To say that I was astonished to find out that such a thing might be sensible and practical... well... yeah... bowl me over with a feather. It's probably always true that any real growth in understanding comes with that "Ow! my brain hurts!" feeling. Yet another thing I want to take up with God when I die (along with mosquitoes). This particular one made my brain hurt for quite some time. Meeting this couple in real life was invaluable to actually understanding.

CaptJosh -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/20/2012 2:33:04 PM)
I kiss my pet's eyes, but they're closed when I do so. I'm so glad I got rid of the headache before I read about eyeball licking. That sounds a little creepy...

DesFIP -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/20/2012 7:34:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaptJosh Wait, there are people who believe you can't leave once you submit? Ok, I already had a mild headache, and that just hurt my brain. Ow... Yes there are. Search Internal Enslavement. Stockholm Syndrome type stuff, where the s type can't see that leaving is an option. However I would more like to address your thought that a s type needs their needs met to be happy. That's not actually true. For some people, what they need is to have their needs disregarded in favor of their dominant's needs. Personally I would classify that as emotional masochism, where you enjoy suffering for your partner. It isn't something I do, but I do know that others are very focused on that. For most women, long term denial shuts off their libido. For a very few hard core emotional masochists, it doesn't do that because they enjoy suffering for him daily months on end. I'm not sure it qualifies as healthy but that's not my problem, it's theirs.

JeffBC -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/20/2012 8:37:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Yes there are. Search Internal Enslavement. Stockholm Syndrome type stuff, where the s type can't see that leaving is an option. I don't think that's fair on two counts. For starters, I consider myself into IE yet I never desired to go in the "can't leave" direction. I could if I chose... that's the IE part. But like everything else it's Dom's choice. Personally, I happen to get my kicks out of actually being worthy which requires her to assess that without tampering from from me. Secondly, I'm not aware of any actual comparison to Stockholm Syndrome in any relationship which I'm thinking of. Mostly, I see it as different viewpoints. In some cases, very pragmatic viewpoints. But here, just to show one of those viewpoints, I think it's pretty reasonably true that I can't leave Carol. The bottom line is that she's too good for me and I'm too smart to make that a plausible course of action for me. Presto... unable. If I had some insecurities... perhaps from previous relationships... such that the focus on permanence was important it'd be easy to spin my relationship with Carol into a "cannot leave" type situation. Couple that with the very deep inroads she gives me into her psyche (the IE part) and I could make it mostly real. There's no need for any sort of freaky associations to hostage/torture victims in order to understand at least some of the "cannot leave" mindsets. Actually, the only reason I wouldn't do something like that is, as I said, it would mess with my own fun. Well... that and I'd see it as a wasted effort.

joshspet1980 -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/20/2012 10:45:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I like Ohanasvib vision of what a master and sub relationship should be like. The hard part is finding a master who feels and thinks this way. I know I thank God every day for mine. I love my Master dearly and always have really since I first met him six years ago. He's been my best friend through some really rough times with abusive men and turns out he was the one for me all along. Only in my opinion I think I got even better than the OP because my Master will love me no matter what size I am or how old I get. Thank goodness cause I know I am definitely no prize in the looks department. I actually think he needs better glasses lol ;) But, I know he will always love me and be there for me and I know that without a doubt.

EmeraldsPheonix -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/21/2012 2:07:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ohanasvib A slave's acceptance, (The pivot point) As a Master, one may think you grab a woman with a fist full of hair and drive her into submission whether it be sexual or BDSM and she is to perform to unrealistic expectations. The reality could not be farther from the truth... At least foe me. It truly begins with a relationship filled with love, respect and TRUST, in time, it is the responsibility of the sub/slave to offer her self in service or as possession, I call this the pivotal point of the total power exchange. Newbie Dom/Masters commonly miss this or deny this in haste as a means to .... well you know the rest... Short term or casual play is one thing BUT, accepting the slave and the responsibility for her also means fulfilling her emotional needs, this is not a small milestone. Before you say, "but she is a slave, she has no rights to feelings.". To you I say Wake up ! Is she less than a dog ?even a dog has feelings, she may be a slave in her heart, she may long to serve but when she is happily and emotionally secure and invested she is then free with the power to serve beyond your dreams and desires. Taking responsibility for her is to accept full responsibility for her heart and happiness. You think you are going to keep an unfulfilled and unhappy woman because you can overpower her? Your life will be miserable because she is. Remember who is in charge and controlling the future. Be a real Master! Yes domination is a part, but it is equally balanced with important fulfillment of her needs. Will she serve without it? Perhaps, for a while. The question is, "is she serving because it is a part of who she is and overbearing shallow dominance is forced at the time? Or is it love from the depths of her soul. Remember this, when she is in her zone of fulfilled emotional needs you will receive her gifts beyond all expectations. My happiness as Master starts with my responsibility to her for both of us. you form a good point and I agree because this is essentially what my husband and i have went to and our relationship is growing more and more daily, but the D/s part is on hold and will come in its own time as i am still finding my way to happy service to Him.

CaptJosh -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/21/2012 7:44:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joshspet1980 I know I thank God every day for mine. I love my Master dearly and always have really since I first met him six years ago. He's been my best friend through some really rough times with abusive men and turns out he was the one for me all along. Only in my opinion I think I got even better than the OP because my Master will love me no matter what size I am or how old I get. Thank goodness cause I know I am definitely no prize in the looks department. I actually think he needs better glasses lol ;) But, I know he will always love me and be there for me and I know that without a doubt. You are too a prize, my little one. The prize that I won. The only way I need better glasses is in getting ones that are lighter weight. You are gorgeous, and nothing is going to change that. I love you with all my heart and I will always protect you and care for you.

hellionsLight -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/21/2012 7:59:41 AM)
It's preference. I know people where it is purely a physical M/s relationship, and that doesn't mean sexually. I like that Master has emotions, it works for us. I need that as a slave to him.

OsideGirl -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/21/2012 8:33:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC Personally, I happen to get my kicks out of actually being worthy which requires her to assess that without tampering from from me. That's a great line Jeff.

LunaM -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/21/2012 12:52:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaptJosh quote: ORIGINAL: joshspet1980 I know I thank God every day for mine. I love my Master dearly and always have really since I first met him six years ago. He's been my best friend through some really rough times with abusive men and turns out he was the one for me all along. Only in my opinion I think I got even better than the OP because my Master will love me no matter what size I am or how old I get. Thank goodness cause I know I am definitely no prize in the looks department. I actually think he needs better glasses lol ;) But, I know he will always love me and be there for me and I know that without a doubt. You are too a prize, my little one. The prize that I won. The only way I need better glasses is in getting ones that are lighter weight. You are gorgeous, and nothing is going to change that. I love you with all my heart and I will always protect you and care for you. Awwww your both so adorable.

LaTigresse -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/21/2012 1:49:23 PM)
That is one descriptive.

WestBaySlave -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/21/2012 2:06:17 PM)
This thread has indeed turned worthwhile! Bita's post was particularly insightful. I think while there is nearly always an emotional side to every long-term relationship, it can be hard to define. Some submissive types really do thrive on cold, less-than-a-dog treatment and seem to be living happy, satisfying lives. That very inhuman treatment is an emotional need. And even in these circumstances, I've never actually seen the D-side of it say "She has no right to feelings." Short of brain death, that's a hard one to do. Now, options or ability to act on said feelings, that's another thing... While most D/s and M/s situations have some type of love ( from what I've seen ), it's not always the defining quality of the relationship. Sometimes it's just something that grows through time and familiarity, and often even if the relationship is a sexual one, it isn't the love of eros in the literal sense. Also, most people need more than love and trust, I've found. We're all a mess of various desires, needs, and wants. Rarely will any one person be able to fulfill every single one for another person, in the exact way they are hoping. And that isn't a "we should all be polyamorous and open" statement. As for myself, I'm strictly monogamous and seek one-on-one connections. I just don't expect whatever man I settle down with to be, in the most literal sense, my everything. Even if I make a man the "god" in my life, there will be feet of clay, and some dissatisfaction at times. There have been dominant men I loved, trusted, and respected, yet I would not be theirs if they wanted, simply because we are not right for each other. Yet, I have submitted to some degree to men who I did not love, respect greatly, or trust fully, as part of the getting to know each other process and feeling each other out as D and s. Yet, I do seek a power exchange that contains both love, trust, and respect much like the OP does. But things have to start somewhere. And, while I don't like to dog-pile the OP, but it is true that "You're all doing it wrong" type of first posts usually set things off on the wrong foot. I think starting with an adversarial tone will win adversaries where friends might have been instead.

JeffBC -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/21/2012 2:34:14 PM)
WestBay said: I think while there is nearly always an emotional side to every long-term relationship, it can be hard to define. LOL, you think? I personally find humans to be one of the most complex things I've ever tried to understand. When we're talking human relationships it becomes geometrically more complex. I'm generally pretty happy if I understand my own marriage reasonably well and I understand a few other people's relationships in broad brush strokes. Anything more than that, I think, is wild optimism. That very inhuman treatment is an emotional need. I call this coin of the realm. We all need to "pay up" in our relationships. But we don't get to assign the value to our payments, the recipient does. So for Carol being wrapped up in love is a vastly valuable coin. For someone else, it might have negative value. My own personal impression of how valuable "being loving" ought to be is entirely irrelevant. EVERYTHING in a real relationship is situational and contextual and subjective. Each relationship needs to be understood as a unique system of give and take. They can only be compared with other relationships in very, very broad terms. Even if I make a man the "god" in my life, there will be feet of clay, and some dissatisfaction at times. Pffffft... speak for yourself. I'm perfect as I'm sure Carol will attest to. ------- I think another important point here is that not all relationships have the same goals. That, in turn, means that very very different requirements and constraints are going to be placed on each relationship. So, for instance, someone who is seeking a slave for some hot sweaty sexual sessions is probably going to be looking at an entirely different problem than someone who wants to take on ownership of a human being for life. Different goals are going to necessitate different paths and different criteria for measuring "success". Things that work in a short-term standpoint don't necessarily in a longer-term and vice versa. Things that make for hot sweaty sex might not work out so well as a life style. "Degradation" is an excellent example of this. I can't imagine anyone thriving in an environment where honest, genuine degradation was being heaped upon them 24/7/365 for a life time. Great for some sexy fun... not so much in real life.

joshspet1980 -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/22/2012 8:03:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LunaM quote: ORIGINAL: CaptJosh quote: ORIGINAL: joshspet1980 I know I thank God every day for mine. I love my Master dearly and always have really since I first met him six years ago. He's been my best friend through some really rough times with abusive men and turns out he was the one for me all along. Only in my opinion I think I got even better than the OP because my Master will love me no matter what size I am or how old I get. Thank goodness cause I know I am definitely no prize in the looks department. I actually think he needs better glasses lol ;) But, I know he will always love me and be there for me and I know that without a doubt. You are too a prize, my little one. The prize that I won. The only way I need better glasses is in getting ones that are lighter weight. You are gorgeous, and nothing is going to change that. I love you with all my heart and I will always protect you and care for you. Awwww your both so adorable. Thank you for saying so. We have been practicing so that we can make our mutual friend Chris sick whenever we get around him. It's great fun watching him put his finger in his mouth and make faces at us. LOL. I know that's bad of us to get such a kick out of his misery. But, he's been our dear friend for so many years. He and Josh were roommates when I first met Josh. I knew Chris before I knew Josh actually. And for years when Josh and I would bicker at each other Chris would yell at us, "Why don't you guys just get together already and get it over with already!" And we would just laugh and keep on teasing each other. Now, we are together and having great fun still bickering and then being sugary sweet with one another, just to get him shaking his head.

Killerangel -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/22/2012 9:37:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joshspet1980 Thank you for saying so. We have been practicing so that we can make our mutual friend Chris sick whenever we get around him. It's great fun watching him put his finger in his mouth and make faces at us. LOL. I know that's bad of us to get such a kick out of his misery. But, he's been our dear friend for so many years. He and Josh were roommates when I first met Josh. I knew Chris before I knew Josh actually. And for years when Josh and I would bicker at each other Chris would yell at us, "Why don't you guys just get together already and get it over with already!" And we would just laugh and keep on teasing each other. Now, we are together and having great fun still bickering and then being sugary sweet with one another, just to get him shaking his head. I can understand where Chris is coming from. The two of you are cute and all, but it gets to be a little too much at times, and it's kind of uncomfortable to keep reading the constant flow of compliments that generally has nothing to do with the subject at hand. This is a public forum, maybe write love letters to each other when the mood strikes and have it be between yourselves. It's nice that things are great, I sure do wish the two of you well.

LunaM -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/22/2012 9:58:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joshspet1980 quote: ORIGINAL: LunaM quote: ORIGINAL: CaptJosh quote: ORIGINAL: joshspet1980 I know I thank God every day for mine. I love my Master dearly and always have really since I first met him six years ago. He's been my best friend through some really rough times with abusive men and turns out he was the one for me all along. Only in my opinion I think I got even better than the OP because my Master will love me no matter what size I am or how old I get. Thank goodness cause I know I am definitely no prize in the looks department. I actually think he needs better glasses lol ;) But, I know he will always love me and be there for me and I know that without a doubt. You are too a prize, my little one. The prize that I won. The only way I need better glasses is in getting ones that are lighter weight. You are gorgeous, and nothing is going to change that. I love you with all my heart and I will always protect you and care for you. Awwww your both so adorable. Thank you for saying so. We have been practicing so that we can make our mutual friend Chris sick whenever we get around him. It's great fun watching him put his finger in his mouth and make faces at us. LOL. I know that's bad of us to get such a kick out of his misery. But, he's been our dear friend for so many years. He and Josh were roommates when I first met Josh. I knew Chris before I knew Josh actually. And for years when Josh and I would bicker at each other Chris would yell at us, "Why don't you guys just get together already and get it over with already!" And we would just laugh and keep on teasing each other. Now, we are together and having great fun still bickering and then being sugary sweet with one another, just to get him shaking his head. Lots of people can't handle PDA (public displays of affection). Some use it for shock value, others to bug their friends, and still others do it just because they can and don't care about the reactions/opinions of others. Takes all types [:)]

KnightofMists -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/22/2012 10:28:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ohanasvib A slave's acceptance, (The pivot point) As a Master, one may think you grab a woman with a fist full of hair and drive her into submission whether it be sexual or BDSM and she is to perform to unrealistic expectations. The reality could not be farther from the truth... At least foe me. It truly begins with a relationship filled with love, respect and TRUST, in time, it is the responsibility of the sub/slave to offer her self in service or as possession, I call this the pivotal point of the total power exchange. Newbie Dom/Masters commonly miss this or deny this in haste as a means to .... well you know the rest... Short term or casual play is one thing BUT, accepting the slave and the responsibility for her also means fulfilling her emotional needs, this is not a small milestone. Before you say, "but she is a slave, she has no rights to feelings.". To you I say Wake up ! Is she less than a dog ?even a dog has feelings, she may be a slave in her heart, she may long to serve but when she is happily and emotionally secure and invested she is then free with the power to serve beyond your dreams and desires. Taking responsibility for her is to accept full responsibility for her heart and happiness. You think you are going to keep an unfulfilled and unhappy woman because you can overpower her? Your life will be miserable because she is. Remember who is in charge and controlling the future. Be a real Master! Yes domination is a part, but it is equally balanced with important fulfillment of her needs. Will she serve without it? Perhaps, for a while. The question is, "is she serving because it is a part of who she is and overbearing shallow dominance is forced at the time? Or is it love from the depths of her soul. Remember this, when she is in her zone of fulfilled emotional needs you will receive her gifts beyond all expectations. My happiness as Master starts with my responsibility to her for both of us. I have only one question. Is this theory or practical experience? And when I say practical experience... I mean you are actually doing it and have a thriving on going relationship! Because frankly theory is good but without the practical experience. Its well... Just hot air.

OsideGirl -> RE: The emotional side of Mastership (3/23/2012 7:30:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists I have only one question. Is this theory or practical experience? And when I say practical experience... I mean you are actually doing it and have a thriving on going relationship! Because frankly theory is good but without the practical experience. Its well... Just hot air. Exactly! Seriously, how many people come onto these boards talking about how a D/s BDSM relationship should work, when they've never had a long term D/s BDSM relationship?

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