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"Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 1:22:23 PM

Posts: 90
Joined: 2/15/2012
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I have a question, or rather need some advice, from more experienced folks on here...

I have a friend, let's call her Amanda, who used to be a "Pro Domme" (meaning, as she defines it, a Domme who wasn't romantically or sexually involved with her subs, but did charge for her services of bondage, pain, etc). Now, while she has been out of the lifestyle for years now (married to a vanilla man, happily raising 4 kids, and having sold off all of her fetish gear long ago), she still does talk about her experiences from years ago quite frequently.

Among her frequent monologues about her life as a Domme include a few things that make me extremely nervous about telling her about my own experiences and journey in to BDSM. First, she has ranted about gay Doms for years, referring to them alternately as both a "laughing stock of TRUE Dom/mes" and "creepy, and best avoided." As a gay Dom, that does bother me quite a bit...but, before I started in BDSM, I had no point of reference and took her word as gospel truth. Second, she has made very disparaging remarks about any Dom/me who gets romantically or sexually involved with a sub, whether in the short or long term. In her opinion, BDSM is a hobby-like activity, taken up on the weekends with people you don't associate with during the week. Since my partner and I are hoping to find a full-time sub to join our relationship, both romantically and sexually, her comments make me nervous.

How would you handle a situation like this? Would you, if you were in my shoes, tell Amanda about your own experiences and D/s lifestyle? Amanda is, and has always been, one of my closest friends. Other than this issue, I don't think we've ever really found something on which we disagree. To her children, I am "uncle," to her husband I am practically a brother. But, I do worry that she will, despite her experiences as a Domme, look down upon me, my partner, and any potential sub we find to join us.

Also, as a sidenote, are her attitude and view regarding BDSM common?

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 1:33:27 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
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I get the impression she was never a Domme. She was merely a person who realized she could be paid for doing something.

She was never into BDSM, she was like a hooker who will do an act she doesn't enjoy because the money is good; or at least that's the impression I get from hearing your side of it.

That's my $0.02 (plus a nickel for inflation.)

(in reply to MDomCouple)

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 1:48:21 PM

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Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
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I hate it when someone throws around the 'true' word

Going purely on what you've said, she comes across as homophobic, bigoted and rather narrow-minded. She has never experienced the bond (sexual, romantic or otherwise) of a D/s or M/s relationship and seems clueless about the dynamic as a whole.

Being a domme was her job, not her passion. It's like someone who works in the paint department of Home Depot trying to tell Michaelangelo how to paint the Sistine Chapel.

If you want to keep her as a friend, I wouldn't volunteer any information about your journey into the lifestyle you have, because I don't think she has the ability or the experience to understand it, or the tolerance to accept it as a part of 'you'.

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RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 1:49:53 PM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

I have a question, or rather need some advice, from more experienced folks on here...

I have a friend, let's call her Amanda, who used to be a "Pro Domme" (meaning, as she defines it, a Domme who wasn't romantically or sexually involved with her subs, but did charge for her services of bondage, pain, etc). Now, while she has been out of the lifestyle for years now (married to a vanilla man, happily raising 4 kids, and having sold off all of her fetish gear long ago), she still does talk about her experiences from years ago quite frequently.

Among her frequent monologues about her life as a Domme include a few things that make me extremely nervous about telling her about my own experiences and journey in to BDSM. First, she has ranted about gay Doms for years, referring to them alternately as both a "laughing stock of TRUE Dom/mes" and "creepy, and best avoided." As a gay Dom, that does bother me quite a bit...but, before I started in BDSM, I had no point of reference and took her word as gospel truth. Second, she has made very disparaging remarks about any Dom/me who gets romantically or sexually involved with a sub, whether in the short or long term. In her opinion, BDSM is a hobby-like activity, taken up on the weekends with people you don't associate with during the week. Since my partner and I are hoping to find a full-time sub to join our relationship, both romantically and sexually, her comments make me nervous.

How would you handle a situation like this? Would you, if you were in my shoes, tell Amanda about your own experiences and D/s lifestyle? Amanda is, and has always been, one of my closest friends. Other than this issue, I don't think we've ever really found something on which we disagree. To her children, I am "uncle," to her husband I am practically a brother. But, I do worry that she will, despite her experiences as a Domme, look down upon me, my partner, and any potential sub we find to join us.

Also, as a sidenote, are her attitude and view regarding BDSM common?

"Also, as a sidenote, are her attitude and view regarding BDSM common?"

Fuck no, nor is it a common view amongst normal, respectful, balanced human beings to persecute others for their sexual orientation. How can you be such close friends with this woman when she's slamming on you by association for being gay? I find her comments on that abhorrent. Have you such little respect for yourself? Even if this was done in some joking manner (which would be a stretch) I just don't find it funny or acceptable.

If you are close with this woman and her views are so open and yet contrary to something that is near and dear to your heart, I'd stay away from the subject. I don't think she has magically changed over time to become something different and more accepting to your way of life. The drama potential here is huge and it's really none of her business. She can be introduced to your new submissive as a friend when you get to that bridge.

I'm in school with a bunch of people who are much younger than I am, that seems to give them a rather respectful attitude towards me. The guys when they're around me will apologize for occasional inappropriate comments and while I wave off the apologies. I see no need to let them know that their 'racy' statements are small potatoes to me by far, and enlighten them as to what seems to be a world of bedroom activities beyond their wildest dreams. Let them think I'm the older sedate woman in need of ear protection. No one needs to know and I need to keep their good will for the next year in classes. I don't want to be battling leers or whatever strangeness may result if they knew what I consider a healthy sex life and decent relationship structure.
Let it go with her, you're always going to have it between you if you put it in her face because it doesn't sound as though she's in the least bit flexible in changing her views being as they're rather extreme to begin with.

(in reply to MDomCouple)

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 1:56:03 PM

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Joined: 2/15/2012
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Thank you for the replies...

To be honest, I hadn't considered Amanda's statements to be homophobic before, probably because, outside of BDSM-related conversations, I have never heard anything but supportive remarks for the GLBT community. But, that said, I can certainly see how she could have some homophobia regarding gay people in the BDSM world.

I have to wonder if this is a result of how she was trained. The Domme who trained her....well, I've met the woman twice in my life and is probably the only person I have ever met who, no matter how pressed I am, I could not say a positive thing about. But, again, that Domme was also of the "It's a job, not a lifestyle" variety.

Is there normally a disconnect, or even antipathy, between those who look at being a Dom/me as a career, and those D/s people who view it as a lifestyle?

(in reply to lizi)

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 2:09:04 PM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

Thank you for the replies...

To be honest, I hadn't considered Amanda's statements to be homophobic before, probably because, outside of BDSM-related conversations, I have never heard anything but supportive remarks for the GLBT community. But, that said, I can certainly see how she could have some homophobia regarding gay people in the BDSM world.

I have to wonder if this is a result of how she was trained. The Domme who trained her....well, I've met the woman twice in my life and is probably the only person I have ever met who, no matter how pressed I am, I could not say a positive thing about. But, again, that Domme was also of the "It's a job, not a lifestyle" variety.

Is there normally a disconnect, or even antipathy, between those who look at being a Dom/me as a career, and those D/s people who view it as a lifestyle?

How can you say her homophobia is a result of her BDSM training? I seems to me that homophobia is a result of deeply held personal beliefs. And really...no matter what someone tells me, if I'm not feeling it then it's not going to become a part of my internal landscape. It makes her or any other human sound rather weak to believe that as an adult we would take on another's viewpoint as our own without vetting it some way with ourselves. Kind of like the big kids version of 'well he did it so I'm doing it.'

There does seem to be some antipathy towards pro Domination in BDSM land rather than lifestyle D/s. Lifestyle D/s is generally regarded as more real and true to the D/s spirit. Search for past threads here on pro Domming if you want a taste of how far the pendulum swings on that subject, and if you have a lot of patience because it's a constant subject, and it's always ugly.

(in reply to MDomCouple)

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 2:10:04 PM

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From: Canada
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It seems like a no-brainer to me.

First rule of friendship: My friends have to actually like and respect me.
I'd cut her off as a friend. I mean let's be serious... she has gay issues and your gay. Honestly that'd be the end of any "friend" in my life.

Second Rule of Friendship
If you ignore rule #1, then rule #2 comes into play... If I'm going to call someone my "friend" then I have to treat them with respect which means, among other things, assuming that they will handle new, startling, and possibly confusing information in a mature, rational manner. In other words, I'd tell her that she was entirely and totally fucked up on a great many topics and then take it from there.

But, I do worry that she will, despite her experiences as a Domme, look down upon me, my partner, and any potential sub we find to join us.
Then she is quite obviously NOT your friend. Seriously, I tell people all the time that they are way better off to be mean, annoying, or hurtful to me. NOBODY really gets to do so to Carol without being jettisoned from my life promptly. Carol is #1 in my life. EVERYONE else is a far distant second. My friends know that.

Also, as a sidenote, are her attitude and view regarding BDSM common?
Not any more than such parochial, homophobic thinking is common in general. If it helps you any, I have almost zero real life experience with the gay community or the leather community. Yet it is true that one of the masters I most respect is San Fran gay leather. Go figure.

In her opinion, BDSM is a hobby-like activity, taken up on the weekends with people you don't associate with during the week.
Yes, this is the opinion of many kinksters. The "relationship" crowd and the "kink" crowd don't always get along well. She's entitled to that opinion. What telegraphs her lack of real experience is the fact that she doesn't seem to know that her opinion is far from commonly held. In fact, quite a few of the relationship people see it the other way around... you're just a "weekend player" if all you do is play on weekends.

_____________________________

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(in reply to MDomCouple)

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 2:27:45 PM

poise

Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

I have a friend, let's call her Amanda, who used to be a "Pro Domme" (meaning, as she defines it, a Domme who wasn't romantically or sexually involved with her subs, but did charge for her services of bondage, pain, etc). Now, while she has been out of the lifestyle for years now (married to a vanilla man, happily raising 4 kids, and having sold off all of her fetish gear long ago), she still does talk about her experiences from years ago quite frequently.

I seem to have more questions than answers, and it's none of my business, but.....
In what context does the subject of her previous position come up? If she is living happily in vanilla
suburbia with her husband and children, where does this subject arise, and what are your responses to it.

As one of your closest friends, surely she would know already that you are gay, yes? So it's only the
fact that you are also Dominant and wish to have a slave join you and your partner that you feel she
will laugh at? Why are you allowing a close friend of yours to make you feel ashamed of who you are?

I would let her know when she makes those insulting comments again, that you and your partner
have been happily experimenting with BDSM, and that you don't share the same opinions as she does.
She will either laugh at you, or embrace you. You will know your next step based on her response.

< Message edited by poise -- 2/19/2012 2:28:32 PM >

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RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 2:43:05 PM

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From: Washington, DC area
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Being paid for something doesn't mean she has a clue..and I'd suggest that she doesn't have a clue...

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(in reply to MDomCouple)

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 2:52:14 PM

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I would just chime in with how you're a gay dom when the subject comes up and same for the sexual/romantic stuff. If she's such a close friend why don't you just come out and say these things to her?

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RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 2:56:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MDomCouple
Is there normally a disconnect, or even antipathy, between those who look at being a Dom/me as a career, and those D/s people who view it as a lifestyle?

Not in my experience and not in my case. Rather, all of those pro's I've known have been in the lifestyle, too, even though many weren't dominant in their personal life (some were tops or bottoms or submissive at home).

_____________________________

Relationships come and go, but plastination is forever.

I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

Minimal summary: Artist, Disabled Veteran, Vegan, Pornographer, and Agender dominant female.

(in reply to MDomCouple)

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 2:57:16 PM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

FR

She has a certain perspective on BDSM that comes from her personal experiences as a professional Dominant. But her experience reflects what her interests were. She cannot define for you what your set of interests and approach to BDSM ought to be based solely on what she chose to do. You are entitled to your own interests and your own journey.

I am bisexual, and I have gay male friends who are in this lifestyle. And I'm not sure where her assessment of gay Dominants is coming from. While she is entitled to her own perspective on BDSM in terms of how she would like to define play, I'm not sure she is entitled to disparage an entire group of Dominants like this. Is it possible she met one or two bad apples, and is extrapolating in typical stereotypical manner to the entire group? Her comments don't sound homophobic as much as just disparaging gay Dominants based on a few who she happened to know. Or is there some latent homophobia? I really don't know. You say she is a friend, so you would likely know better.

One's BDSM role, one's range of fetish interests, how one chooses to define a relationship (sexual/non-sexual, play partner/dating/committed) are each individual choices that we each make. And we are entitled to come up with whatever combination that we would like. Period. And that combination can change over time, and at different stages of our lives. Her choices were hers to make. But her choices do not define the overall umbrella of BDSM. You are completely free to make your own choices. She does not have a monopoly on how BDSM should be defined. It doesn't matter whether her view is common, or whether your view is common in the BDSM world. What matters is that each of you is entitled to your own definition (but you are not entitled to impose that definition on someone else).

One piece of advice I have for you is to not rely on this friend for any more BDSM advice, but to do your own research, and possibly connect with your local gay BDSM community, if at all possible. You will start to better understand the range of possibilities, and learn much more if you do. Keeping her as a friend is a different issue entirely. She should really not be your BDSM mentor if she thinks BDSM has only one definition.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 2/19/2012 3:00:33 PM >

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RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 2:59:05 PM

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I can tell you one thing, her views are quite radical. You'd have a hard time trying to find someone who agrees with her, actually. The most widespread beliefs seem to be that it's preferable to be romantically involved with your partner. Gay doms aren't any more likely to be assholes than any other kinkster. And I've never heard of any weekend player looking down on lifestylers before.

_____________________________

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RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 3:07:44 PM

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I sympathize with your position. Amanda is a good friend, and is now like family. She's been able to talk with some expertise about dynamics in the BDSM world and she may have been a bit of a teacher to you. But now you've got your own experiences and opinions and they don't line up with hers; to fully disclose your differing thoughts will certainly rock the boat in some way. You may feel you're at a crossroads; staying silent betrays your own identity, but speaking out just feels unsafe.

If Amanda is a good friend, she'll hear you. I would advise finding or making time where you are free to speak at length in a relaxed setting - don't casually make a comment that feels like a bombshell. Alert her to the fact that there is a topic that is weighing on you and deserves time and her undivided attention. It is, after all, a bit of coming out to her - she's going to have to turn her head around on some things and it'll take time. Remember, her information is from many years ago, and things change. Your experience is quite different - you may find that your disclosure will start a fresh new start of conversations.

A long time ago I was exclusively lesbian until I acknowledged to myself that I liked boys, too. Telling that to my lesbian friends got my heart rate going and my palms sweating! ...but what a relief to know I could be whatever it was I was! Good luck to you!

_____________________________

I prefer to defer.

Married to JeffBC...but don't assume we think the same. Actually, you should assume we really DON'T think the same.

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RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 3:10:27 PM

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First, I think you'd do very well to listen to everything that Jeff has already told you above. Quite frankly, *that* is the attitude you should look for when deciding to label certain folks in your life as a friend. Personally, I blame facebook and similar services for screwing with the definition of the word 'friend' but that's a rant I'll save for somewhere else.

Your 'friend' the ex pro domme, may be very knowledgeable about BDSM and how she dealt with her clients. I propose to you that she didn't know very much about the community in general. The leather community has quite it's share of gay and lesbian Masters and I'll guarantee you it's not a weekend deal or some kind of hobby. It's straight folks like Me who didn't come along until later.

How would I handle it? I'd offer her an education. I'd seriously ask her if she would be interested in going with you to a leather event. Let her see for herself just how many folks out there live this way and that there is a history behind it. Give her the chance to see that there really is more than one culture going on under the BDSM umbrella and there really is more than one opinion on how people choose to partake of these things in their life. It also might help her to see that a person being gay or straight honestly doesn't make any difference in making that choice.

If after that she still holds the same opinion, yes, it kind of sucks, but you may have to reassess exactly who it is that you want to call a friend in your life. From your other thread, you are wanting to embark on a poly relationship. Are you really going to want 'friends' who don't accept that person in your life because they think you're 'playing' at that relationship?

_____________________________

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RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 3:56:59 PM

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Wow! So many responses, and so many great pieces of advice! Thank you everyone!

I don't have time to respond to everyone or everything said, but there are some things I did want to touch on....

quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi
How can you say her homophobia is a result of her BDSM training? I seems to me that homophobia is a result of deeply held personal beliefs. And really...no matter what someone tells me, if I'm not feeling it then it's not going to become a part of my internal landscape. It makes her or any other human sound rather weak to believe that as an adult we would take on another's viewpoint as our own without vetting it some way with ourselves. Kind of like the big kids version of 'well he did it so I'm doing it.'

I am not really saying that any homophobia IS a result of her BDSM training. Perhaps I didn't word my previous statement well, but it is something I simply wonder about. It could be true, it may not be true. It was simply an inquisitive remark.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
It seems like a no-brainer to me.

First rule of friendship: My friends have to actually like and respect me.
I'd cut her off as a friend. I mean let's be serious... she has gay issues and your gay. Honestly that'd be the end of any "friend" in my life.

In general, I would agree with you. However, I don't think she really has gay issues. I've known her for more than 15 years, and have been through nearly everything with her that two friends can go through. Other than the disparaging remarks about gay Doms, I have never heard anything negative about gay people before. My instinct is that her remarks come from bad experiences with gay Doms in her previous pro-Domme life. This doesn't excuse the comments, by any means, but it may at least be a way toward an explanation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: poise
I seem to have more questions than answers, and it's none of my business, but.....
In what context does the subject of her previous position come up? If she is living happily in vanilla
suburbia with her husband and children, where does this subject arise, and what are your responses to it.

As one of your closest friends, surely she would know already that you are gay, yes? So it's only the
fact that you are also Dominant and wish to have a slave join you and your partner that you feel she
will laugh at? Why are you allowing a close friend of yours to make you feel ashamed of who you are?

I would let her know when she makes those insulting comments again, that you and your partner
have been happily experimenting with BDSM, and that you don't share the same opinions as she does.
She will either laugh at you, or embrace you. You will know your next step based on her response.

The comments usually come up when we sit around as friends, reminisce, tell stories, and just make each other laugh. I'll share a story that begins with "A former neighbor of mine..." which will remind her of "A former sub of mine..." which then launches in to a broader BDSM related discussion. They just naturally progress out of conversations from time to time.

For your second question, yes she does know I am gay. In fact, she was the first person in my life I came out to, and she was amazingly supportive. So, the fact that I am gay has never been an issue, and the fact that I'm poly-oriented isn't an issue (she has known that aspect of my personality for years). I think it would be more "Well, YOU aren't the Dom type...so, you having a slave is silly." (Of course, coupled with negative opinions of lifestyle and gay D/s types anyway).

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
She has a certain perspective on BDSM that comes from her personal experiences as a professional Dominant. But her experience reflects what her interests were. She cannot define for you what your set of interests and approach to BDSM ought to be based solely on what she chose to do. You are entitled to your own interests and your own journey.

I am bisexual, and I have gay male friends who are in this lifestyle. And I'm not sure where her assessment of gay Dominants is coming from. While she is entitled to her own perspective on BDSM in terms of how she would like to define play, I'm not sure she is entitled to disparage an entire group of Dominants like this. Is it possible she met one or two bad apples, and is extrapolating in typical stereotypical manner to the entire group? Her comments don't sound homophobic as much as just disparaging gay Dominants based on a few who she happened to know. Or is there some latent homophobia? I really don't know. You say she is a friend, so you would likely know better.

One's BDSM role, one's range of fetish interests, how one chooses to define a relationship (sexual/non-sexual, play partner/dating/committed) are each individual choices that we each make. And we are entitled to come up with whatever combination that we would like. Period. And that combination can change over time, and at different stages of our lives. Her choices were hers to make. But her choices do not define the overall umbrella of BDSM. You are completely free to make your own choices. She does not have a monopoly on how BDSM should be defined. It doesn't matter whether her view is common, or whether your view is common in the BDSM world. What matters is that each of you is entitled to your own definition (but you are not entitled to impose that definition on someone else).

One piece of advice I have for you is to not rely on this friend for any more BDSM advice, but to do your own research, and possibly connect with your local gay BDSM community, if at all possible. You will start to better understand the range of possibilities, and learn much more if you do. Keeping her as a friend is a different issue entirely. She should really not be your BDSM mentor if she thinks BDSM has only one definition.

I think you are right. We all have friends in our lives that we know to go to for advice on one subject, but not another. I have people come to me for advice if it relates to my career field, but they wouldn't dream of coming to me for medical advice (since I'm not in medicine). I suppose, in a way, it crosses over to BDSM. I should recognize that, however her views came to be, she has views of the D/s lifestyle that I don't agree with. Thus, I won't go to her for advice on the subject. That seems to be a good approach to take...acknowledging that, no matter her other wonderful characteristics, this is an area that she does not understand as much as she may think she does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarolBC
I sympathize with your position. Amanda is a good friend, and is now like family. She's been able to talk with some expertise about dynamics in the BDSM world and she may have been a bit of a teacher to you. But now you've got your own experiences and opinions and they don't line up with hers; to fully disclose your differing thoughts will certainly rock the boat in some way. You may feel you're at a crossroads; staying silent betrays your own identity, but speaking out just feels unsafe.

If Amanda is a good friend, she'll hear you. I would advise finding or making time where you are free to speak at length in a relaxed setting - don't casually make a comment that feels like a bombshell. Alert her to the fact that there is a topic that is weighing on you and deserves time and her undivided attention. It is, after all, a bit of coming out to her - she's going to have to turn her head around on some things and it'll take time. Remember, her information is from many years ago, and things change. Your experience is quite different - you may find that your disclosure will start a fresh new start of conversations.

A long time ago I was exclusively lesbian until I acknowledged to myself that I liked boys, too. Telling that to my lesbian friends got my heart rate going and my palms sweating! ...but what a relief to know I could be whatever it was I was! Good luck to you!

My partner and I talked about it over dinner this evening, after posting my original question...and he shares your point of view. He feels that if and when the day comes we find that sub to join our relationship, we should let her know (since she is around us enough she'd notice anyway), and let her know that no matter her opinion on the matter, it is what it is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
First, I think you'd do very well to listen to everything that Jeff has already told you above. Quite frankly, *that* is the attitude you should look for when deciding to label certain folks in your life as a friend. Personally, I blame facebook and similar services for screwing with the definition of the word 'friend' but that's a rant I'll save for somewhere else.

Your 'friend' the ex pro domme, may be very knowledgeable about BDSM and how she dealt with her clients. I propose to you that she didn't know very much about the community in general. The leather community has quite it's share of gay and lesbian Masters and I'll guarantee you it's not a weekend deal or some kind of hobby. It's straight folks like Me who didn't come along until later.

How would I handle it? I'd offer her an education. I'd seriously ask her if she would be interested in going with you to a leather event. Let her see for herself just how many folks out there live this way and that there is a history behind it. Give her the chance to see that there really is more than one culture going on under the BDSM umbrella and there really is more than one opinion on how people choose to partake of these things in their life. It also might help her to see that a person being gay or straight honestly doesn't make any difference in making that choice.

If after that she still holds the same opinion, yes, it kind of sucks, but you may have to reassess exactly who it is that you want to call a friend in your life. From your other thread, you are wanting to embark on a poly relationship. Are you really going to want 'friends' who don't accept that person in your life because they think you're 'playing' at that relationship?

I think you hit on a point here, either intentionally or not. There are so many cultures under the "BDSM umbrella," and I think she may have only been exposed to one of them fully (that of the professional domination). She may have had only periphery experience with lifestyle Doms and subs, and maybe those experiences weren't good (hey, there are assholes in all walks of life). She may need to see someone she cares about (me) experience the lifestyle she only thought she understood.

Again, thank you all. You've certainly given me a lot to think about. I'm glad I found you all, and found CM!

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 4:36:40 PM

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

I can't imagine what has made her think that gay "doms" are a "joke." It is an orientation. Honestly, your comments about her make her seem clueless about a great many things. She supports the GLBT community as long as they don't have BDSM proclivities, and BDSM is simply a weekend hobby, not an orientation.

She makes comments about "her subs," and to me, that is the big joke. She was a pro, she didn't have "subs," she had clients. Some have called pro dommes nothing more than a fetish delivery service because they really aren't "domming" anyone, merely playing a part based on the client's wants.

It sounds as though she doesn't think that gay men can be dominant and that is the root of her problem.

Personally, I would have difficulty being friends with someone who has such blatent opinions about something I am and can't share with her.

(in reply to MDomCouple)

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 5:23:38 PM

Posts: 257
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline

@ OP:

A couple of possibly relevant points:

- The 'pro' Dommes I've met seem to fall into two basic categories: those who sincerely care about the mental/physical welfare of their subs, and for whom the monetary aspect is at least somewhat secondary to those relationships, 'lifestyle', etc; and b), those for whom the monetary profits rank as their primary concern, with their subs treated more as merely marks to exploited. Yeah, there's lots of shading between those two zones, and another that's just plain misandrist. Where your (former?) friend lies on that spectrum might have changed with time too, but you might give some thought to such matters.

- Her subsequent 'vanilla' relationship may have been anythiing from reactionary to outright redneck, and that could be having much influence on her attitudes, perceptions, etc towards one or more minorities. If she's spending more time around people for whom blaming and bashing minorities are frequent topics of conversation, then she's likely to pick those up as her 'normal' or 'expected' viewpoints, attitudes, etc.

There isn't enough info and naunce in what you posted to more than speculate about what's going on with her attitudes and actions, but the advice to consider sharing less about your views, plans, etc might be circumspect. People change with time, and maybe that's just a topic where y'all aren't companionable any more ...

...

(in reply to MDomCouple)

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/19/2012 9:04:20 PM

NiceButMeanGirl

Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline

It seems that she might think gay men can't be Dominant, which is her problem. There are plenty of gay male Dominants. And she also seems to have a very narrow view of what's "okay" in D/s relationships and BDSM in general. It sounds like her only experience with BDSM was as a Pro and she had little to nothing to do with the relationship and emotional intimacy part of it. That's too bad really. But I wouldn't hide who you really are from her. If you have to hide who you really are from her, how good of a friend is she really?

NBMG

_____________________________

I'm now SweetlySadistic1 on CollarSpace. NBMG is an old profile, please see my new one.

(in reply to SilverBoat)

RE: "Not real Doms" - 2/20/2012 12:56:48 AM

DommesLesEnigma

Posts: 108
Joined: 2/12/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

Among her frequent monologues about her life as a Domme include a few things that make me extremely nervous about telling her about my own experiences and journey in to BDSM. First, she has ranted about gay Doms for years, referring to them alternately as both a "laughing stock of TRUE Dom/mes" and "creepy, and best avoided." As a gay Dom, that does bother me quite a bit...but, before I started in BDSM, I had no point of reference and took her word as gospel truth. Second, she has made very disparaging remarks about any Dom/me who gets romantically or sexually involved with a sub, whether in the short or long term. In her opinion, BDSM is a hobby-like activity, taken up on the weekends with people you don't associate with during the week. Since my partner and I are hoping to find a full-time sub to join our relationship, both romantically and sexually, her comments make me nervous.

Is this "Amanda";
1. A friend from your childhood or someone you met along the way?
2. Have you seen any of her actual sessions from her past?

I asked those two questions because;
1. Sometimes you have friends that are closer than any family would be. Friendships have so many flavors. In my case as a lesbian Dominant. To be true to my own nature I let all in my inner circle know what I am. I lost a very dear friend who cut off all ties and a piece of my heart with them. Some keep me at arms length and we don't discuss my lifestyle. Some are easy going and like to ask questions. Some even ask questions because they were curious. So, take all of that into consideration. Be honest and clear. You never know. She may be flexible enough and want to hear and learn from your experience (if that happens your friendship will grow more.) She may be less accepting and allot your friendship to (from reasons you stated above) "a hobby-like activity, taken up on the weekends with people you don't associate with during the week." On the other side she may cut ties (from the reasons you also stated above), and feel your are "creepy, and best avoided". Only you can decide if it is worth the risk. But, unless you try to hide it (and from what I see, you already know she will find out eventually) it is gonna take its own course and she will find out. You can tell her and control it, or you can just let her find out and hope it don't blow up.

2. It seems to me IMO it is not just gay Doms she has a problem with but BDMS in general. From what you write she could not have been a "TRUE Dom/mes" weekend or otherwise. Some things don't gel. Was she a Dom/mes AT all? I am curious as to how she became "Pro Domme"? Was it only for the money?

_____________________________

There are many people that have found their way. The great ones are those that help others find their way.

(in reply to MDomCouple)

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