RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 11:48:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Maybe if you have a problem with the way campaign's are financed, you should have brought it up sooner?




???

I'm talking about how politicians are sometimes called on to account for the statements of their supporters, Fargle, inquiring as to any double standards that might come into play. I've no idea what you are projecting onto that.




Owner59 -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 11:49:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Speaking of Bill (the bigot) Maher, Owner59, now that he's a big donor, should the White House Press Corps be asking the President his opinion on everything Bill says?




Why don`t you call the WH and get back to us with their answer?

And how is it Bill is a bigot,mr.kettle?




farglebargle -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 11:53:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Maybe if you have a problem with the way campaign's are financed, you should have brought it up sooner?




???

I'm talking about how politicians are sometimes called on to account for the statements of their supporters, Fargle, inquiring as to any double standards that might come into play. I've no idea what you are projecting onto that.


You appear to have an issue with people being able to donate unlimited amounts of money to 'uncoordinated' PACs.

I mean, that's the root-cause of your hypothetical scenario, isn't it? That people trade money for access?




TheHeretic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 11:56:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Why don`t you call the WH and get back to us with their answer?



It wouldn't be their answer that mattered, Owner59, unless you think the White House should dictate what the press may ask about.




tazzygirl -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 12:04:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I guess, like Rush, you don't understand how the Pill works.



Yes, I do, Kalikshama. I liked Norplant better, since it can't be forgotten, but I think enough women had problems that they pulled it. I haven't been in the market for women's birth control, in a number of years.

And if you ain't fucking, you probably don't need it, no matter how many fathers want so desperately to believe that it's just for the acne.

Let's also not delude ourselves into thinking that birth control is being singled out in the insurance gap. Let a woman who is trying to get pregnant educate you on what all sort of reproductive health areas aren't covered.



Implanon at a Glance

A matchstick-sized rod that is inserted in the arm to prevent pregnancy
Safe, effective, and convenient
Must be inserted by a health care provider
Costs between $400 and $800 up front, but lasts up to three years

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/birth-control-implant-implanon-4243.htm

Replaced the Norplant.. but can only be used for three years... then what?

To the bolded part....

Adolescent girls and young women are frequently prescribed birth control pills for irregular or absent menstrual periods, menstrual cramps, acne, PMS, endometriosis, and for Polycystic Ovary Syndrome. Girls who are diagnosed with PCOS are often prescribed oral contraceptives to lower their hormone levels and regulate their menstrual periods.

Other Medical Benefits
Because there is less menstrual bleeding when taking birth control pills, you are less likely to get anemia (low number of red blood cells, which carry oxygen from the lungs to the tissues). Birth control pills lower your chance of getting endometrial (lining of the uterus) cancer, ovarian cancer, and ovarian cysts.

http://www.youngwomenshealth.org/med-uses-ocp.html

It does have other uses.

Rich, I am rather surprised at your stance here.

To add to kalika's post 104.....

The following Commission Decision finds reasonable cause to believe that discrimination occured under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as amended, in two charges challenging the exclusion of prescription contraceptives from a health insurance plan. The Decision is a formal statement of Commission policy as applied to the facts at issue in these charges.

2000... might be worth a read.

Conclusion

There is reasonable cause to believe that Respondents have engaged in an unlawful employment practice in violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as amended by the Pregnancy Discrimination Act, by failing to offer insurance coverage for the cost of prescription contraceptive drugs and devices. Charging Parties are entitled to reimbursement of the costs of their prescription contraceptives for the applicable back pay period. In addition, the District Office is instructed to determine whether any cognizable damages have resulted from Respondents' actions.

In order to avoid violating Title VII in the future:

Respondents must cover the expenses of prescription contraceptives to the same extent, and on the same terms, that they cover the expenses of the types of drugs, devices, and preventive care identified above. Respondents must also offer the same coverage for contraception-related outpatient services as are offered for other outpatient services. Where a woman visits her doctor to obtain a prescription for contraceptives, she must be afforded the same coverage that would apply if she, or any other employee, had consulted a doctor for other preventive or health maintenance services. Where, on the other hand, Respondents limit coverage of comparable drugs or services (e.g., by imposing maximum payable benefits), those limits may be applied to contraception as well.

Respondents' coverage must extend to the full range of prescription contraceptive choices. Because the health needs of women may change -- and because different women may need different prescription contraceptives at different times in their lives -- Respondents must cover each of the available options for prescription contraception. Moreover, Respondents must include such coverage in each of the health plan choices that it offers to its employees. See 29 C.F.R. part 1604, App. Q&A 24; Arizona Governing Committee v. Norris, 463 U.S. 1073, 1081-82 n.10 (1983).
The charges are remanded to the field for further processing in accordance with this decision.


One of the points made was the following...

14. In addition, Respondents cover Viagra where patients complain about "decreased sexual interest or energy," whether or not the individual has been diagnosed as impotent. Letter from Respondents to EEOC, August 25, 2000. Respondents' assertion that their plan covers treatments only for abnormal medical conditions is not credible in light of these facts.


http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/decision-contraception.html

To my knowledge, this is not something Bush objected to... yet now its become an issue?




TheHeretic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 12:04:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

You appear to have an issue



Ah. That would be your glasses then, Fargle. Campaign finance is a whole other subject from applying the same media standards, equitably, in the system we currently have.




farglebargle -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 12:13:47 AM)

There are no "media standards".

The media is unregulated. I thought you were against the FCC and stuff?




TheHeretic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 12:15:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
yet now its become an issue?



That's sorta the point I'm making, Tazzy. This is a nonsensical national argument, sucking the air away from matters of legitmate concern.

If this is what we are going to do, though, why would we possibly expect not to see all the standard, polarizing nastiness?





TheHeretic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 12:17:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
I thought you were against the FCC and stuff?



You lost me again, Fargle, and I'm fine with that.

Have a nice night




tazzygirl -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 12:18:28 AM)

But who has made it an issue?




pyroaquatic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 12:22:51 AM)

As far as I am concerned he speaks to himself for his own amusement. I do not like him nor do I hate him.

I have exiled him from my thought processes.

Being ignored is worse than death in the entertainment business.

'A Knock is a Plug.'




tweakabelle -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 1:29:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

But who has made it an issue?


Good question. Who made the "the standard, polarizing nastiness" an issue?

Would that be the same people who called women who use contraceptives for routine non-sexual health purposes 'sluts and whores' or the people who tried to sanitise this misogynist nastiness by complaining about "subsidized promiscuity"?

Or both?




Lucylastic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 2:07:36 AM)

Of course it comes down to the Presidents changing the rule on contraception!!! dontcha know.
Its got nothing to do with the hard christian right seeping pus into the legislature against any woman who wants to decide about their own reproduction and rights over their own bodies.The bills against abortion, the bills for trans vaginal invasion, the bills for personhood rights decimating the rights of a womans own body carrying the "fetus". Nothing at all to do with that, its the loony leftists taking things all out of proportion.
/sarcasm




kalikshama -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 4:00:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I guess, like Rush, you don't understand how the Pill works.


Yes, I do, Kalikshama. I liked Norplant better, since it can't be forgotten, but I think enough women had problems that they pulled it. I haven't been in the market for women's birth control, in a number of years.

And if you ain't fucking, you probably don't need it, no matter how many fathers want so desperately to believe that it's just for the acne.

Let's also not delude ourselves into thinking that birth control is being singled out in the insurance gap. Let a woman who is trying to get pregnant educate you on what all sort of reproductive health areas aren't covered.


If you understood that a woman takes the Pill every day, whether she is having sex that day or not, irrespective of the number of partners she has, why would you call it "her right to subsidized promiscuity?"

I call it her right to prescription contraceptives under the 2000 EEOC ruling.




thishereboi -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 4:10:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Do ordinary right wingers in the US actually admire such despicable qualities? Are they so insecure that they require reassurance from such a dubious source?


no and no

Serious question, boi. Would you consider yourself a Right Winger or a Conservative?


I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two.

As an old school conservative who thinks the Religious Right is scum of the earth, I see a huge amount of difference.



You didn't put religious right in your list of choices so I didn't bring them up. But since you mentioned them, do you think they are worse than the religious left? Now I know the ones on the right make all the noise and the ones on the left sit back and smile a lot, but are they really that much different? Now there are certainly times I wish they would just shut the fuck up, but I wouldn't call them the scum of the earth. Well, maybe some of them.




farglebargle -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 6:08:29 AM)

And seriously, stop this horseshit about the PUBLIC paying for anything.

Health Insurance is a contract between the INSURED PATIENT and the INSURANCE COMPANY.

Period. Anyone suggesting otherwise is just plain, flat out lying, and now that they've been publicly called out on it, expect nothing but pure derision for being SO STUPID to propagate this retarded idea.

Simply put, when someone is SO FUCKING DUMB they don't understand a health insurance contract, they're TOO FUCKING DUMB to participate, and it's time to just shut them down for being FUCKING MORONS.





SoftBonds -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 10:02:48 AM)

One issue I wanted to point out, since someone suggested that the folks taking birth control for hormonal control instead of pregnancy prevention were doing it "just for the acne."
PCOS, is a serious condition for women. Not only does it cause weight gain that often leads to Diabetes, it also causes undue heart strain. A leading cause of death of women with PCOS is Heart attacks-IN THEIR FORTIES!!!
Yes, it kills women before they even turn 50. Birth control can protect their heart and health. But conservatives would rather say "promiscuous" and call it a day...
Granted, there is some evidence that it is a self-imposed problem for some women, eating McDonalds is a leading cause of PCOS :)
(actually, excessive beef consumption because of the hormones they feed beef, but saying McDonalds is funnier)




TheHeretic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 10:17:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

If you understood that a woman takes the Pill every day, whether she is having sex that day or not, irrespective of the number of partners she has, why would you call it "her right to subsidized promiscuity?"




A couple reasons, Kalikshama. For one, to highlight that people right here on this planet, with a legitimate stake in the discussion, and legitimate rights to their beliefs, and free expression of them, have differing values, and interpretations of behavior.





HardSadisticFun -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 10:19:51 AM)

Yeah Obama needs to talk about the 'real issues' like cell phone towers. My God. Who exactly is Maher bigoted against? Are we about to get a 'pity the poor white man' rant? The last time we had a 'real budget', ie a balanced one, was when Clinton was in office. The last Republican to balance a budget was Eisenhower. The last Republican to not, at a minimum, double the deficit was Nixon.

Tweak, paleos still believe in supply side. If I have to cajole someone to see what should be plain on their face, that trickle down economics doesn't work, then they should just go ahead and stay with the GOP. The Dem caucus has enough BLue Dogs as it is.




farglebargle -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/4/2012 10:20:06 AM)

Yeah, but...

What happens in a doctor's office between them and their patients is not open to speculation or criticism regardless of your beliefs.





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