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"Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 6:08:41 AM   
Fightdirecto


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NY Post, March 3, 2012

quote:

This banker is in the top 1 percent — of jerks.

A mild-mannered, hardworking New York City cabby lamented to The Post yesterday that he was insulted, demeaned and threatened by a boozy bigwig who refused to pay him, screaming: “Go back to your own country...I’m going to kill you.”

Mohamed Ammar said investment banker W. Bryan Jennings — a $2-million-a-year fat cat for Morgan Stanley — went from being a sweet gentleman he picked up in Midtown to a surly, knife-wielding “drunk” who stiffed him on the $204 fare when they got to Jennings’ Darien, Conn., home.

“I said,‘You have to pay me. It’s the law,’” Ammar recalled at his Queens home yesterday, where he lives with his wife and three children. “He says, ‘What law? You should go back to your own f--king country.’

“I say, This is my f--king country, excuse my language. I’m an American citizen!’” said the driver, who is originally from Egypt.

“That’s when he pulled out the penknife...He leaned forward and yelled, ‘I’m gonna kill you, motherf--ker!” Ammar said.

“I saw his hand balled up into a fist and I thought he was going to punch me,” the cabby said.

“I put my hand out to protect, and that is when I saw the penknife. He went for my neck first but ended up slashing my hand many times as I was fighting him off...My hand was bleeding pretty bad” as Jennings fled on foot, Ammar said.

“He was drunk and out of control, and he could have killed me. That was one of the scariest moments of my life.”

Ammar needed six stitches to close his wounds.

Jennings was charged Wednesday with assault, larceny and committing a hate crime for the Dec. 22 attack. He was released on bail.

Ammar’s frightening account came as Morgan Stanley placed Jennings on indefinite leave from a managing-director job that paid an estimated $2 million last year. Jennings is co-head of North American fixed-income capital markets at the New York investment bank.

“This is just terrible. This makes Morgan Stanley look bad,” a top executive said.

Jennings admitted to cops he knocked back “two or three Coors Lights” at a Morgan Stanley charity auction he ran on the afternoon of Dec. 21, and later drank “several more beers” at the bank’s holiday party at the hotel. But he claimed he wasn’t “highly intoxicated,” court records state.

When a limo failed to come, he hailed Ammar’s cab.


Imagine that - some low-life cab driver actually demanding that a rich American Wall Street executive pay the cabfare the rich American Wall Street executive had agreed to pay him.

Cab drivers should be grateful just to have a banker spending money on their cab. Threats and stab wounds seem a small price to pay for that privilege.

Look at this man - shouldn't he have the right to protect himself with a knife against poor, unworthy Americans who are constantly asking him for his hard-earned money?

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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 6:09:42 AM   
Fightdirecto


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Sorry, picture didn't embed first time




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- Ellie Wiesel

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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 6:11:24 AM   
Owner59


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This guy was drunk.....

What excuse does half of the GOP have?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/6/2012 6:12:00 AM >


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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 6:12:14 AM   
kalikshama


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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 6:47:02 AM   
Marc2b


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As someone who drove cab for seven years I have a question and a comment.

Question: When the guy pulled out the pen knife why didn't the Hack just pull out his stick... err, I mean, the stout piece of wood someone left behind and just happened to be laying there... and pop him on the head a few times?

Comment: Whenever we had a problem with someone who didn't want to pay we'd let it lie a few days - until tempers cooled - and then several of us would arrange an impromptu meeting and reason with the person. You'd be surprised how reasonable people could be when we explained the hardship their failure to pay caused the hard working driver. Indeed, most people, once they had an opportunity to examine their conscience agreed not only to pay what was owed but a little something extra for all the trouble they caused... and were profusely apologetic as well. Most people are reasonable if you just give them the chance.

Marc - "Don Marco" - 2b

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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 6:58:10 AM   
SilverBoat


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FR:OP:

Seeing as Jennings has already gotten out on bail, despite having attacked the cabbie with a deadly weapon, what odds would you give that he never spends a day behind bars for the (insert "alleged") assault?

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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 7:10:53 AM   
tazzygirl


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Jail... probably not. He will get a slap on the wrist and told to go to AA.

Suit? Could be a whole nother matter.

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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 7:53:53 AM   
fucktoyprincess


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FR

This sounds to me like an argument that got out of hand, and if I had to guess, both parties are at fault for allowing the situation to escalate. As a New Yorker, I can tell you that a certain percentage (not very high, but a certain percentage) of cab drivers here are rude and obnoxious themselves. I've certainly gotten into arguments with some of them over fares, routes, etc. So you have, possibly, a drunk passenger, maybe a slightly obnoxious cab driver, and suddenly things get out of control.

With that said, the cabbie is always due their legally entitled fare - provided they followed the route you asked for and otherwise abided by the laws that govern them. They are not allowed to ignore a route request and they are also not allowed to just charge whatever they want for a fare. That is against the law. With that said, physically attacking a cab driver isn't allowed either unless you are defending yourself.

I find it hard to believe that a wealthy banker was refusing to pay the cabbie his legally entitled fare unless something else had happened (were they disputing a pre-negotiated fare, was he refusing to pay because something else happened?). Drunk people get into cabs all the time in the city. They still pay their fares. Something tells me there is more to this story that what we are reading. And, if not, well obviously the banker is completely in the wrong, and in a way, that's that.

As for the racist comments by the banker - those sorts of comments are made more than one would expect. Sadly, the banker is just another American racist. And guess what - that's not just 1% of the American population.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 3/6/2012 7:58:38 AM >


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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 8:20:49 AM   
Fightdirecto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
This sounds to me like an argument that got out of hand, and if I had to guess, both parties are at fault for allowing the situation to escalate. As a New Yorker, I can tell you that a certain percentage (not very high, but a certain percentage) of cab drivers here are rude and obnoxious themselves. I've certainly gotten into arguments with some of them over fares, routes, etc. So you have, possibly, a drunk passenger, maybe a slightly obnoxious cab driver, and suddenly things get out of control.

With that said, the cabbie is always due their legally entitled fare - provided they followed the route you asked for and otherwise abided by the laws that govern them. They are not allowed to ignore a route request and they are also not allowed to just charge whatever they want for a fare. That is against the law. With that said, physically attacking a cab driver isn't allowed either unless you are defending yourself.

I find it hard to believe that a wealthy banker was refusing to pay the cabbie his legally entitled fare unless something else had happened (were they disputing a pre-negotiated fare, was he refusing to pay because something else happened?). Drunk people get into cabs all the time in the city. They still pay their fares. Something tells me there is more to this story that what we are reading. And, if not, well obviously the banker is completely in the wrong, and in a way, that's that.

I have driven a cab myself at various times (it's a great part-time gig for a musician because it allows for a flexible schedule). I never was attacked by a fare or robbed, in part I believe because it was a known fact that the cab company I drove for was owned by an organized crime "family".

"Were they disputing a pre-negotiated fare?"

From the NY Post story:
quote:

Ammar says the incident started out innocently. He picked Jennings up outside of the Ink 48 hotel at West 48th Street and 10th Avenue.

They exchanged pleasantries. “When he got into the cab, I took out the book that shows fares for out-of-state trips,” he said, explaining that a fare of $204 is suggested.

“I showed this to him and I said, ‘Before we leave, we have to agree on the price of the trip.’
He says, ‘Oh, I’ve got plenty of cash. I’ll pay you a lot.’

“He says this while waving around some bills. He was waving around a lot of money. I tell him I don’t need a lot of money, just the fare and that would be fine.

“I tell him that I should collect the money before we go on our way. But he says, ‘Don’t worry about it. You will get plenty of money’ ” after the men agreed to a $204 flat fare, Ammar said. “I went along with this because $204 really is a lot of money to me.”

Ammar said Jennings slept during the 43-mile trip to Darien, where they arrived after midnight.

When Ammar woke Jennings, “He was groggy and angry and he was talking very loudly,” the cabby said.

“We drove up his driveway...He slides open the door and asks, ‘How much do I owe you?’ I tell him $204. He starts yelling at me.”

“Are you crazy?” Jennings screamed, recalled the driver. “That’s too much. I’M ALREADY HOME. I DON’T FEEL LIKE PAYING!”

Jennings then said, “I’ll give you $50,”
Ammar recalled.

“I tell him, ‘Sir, we are going to drive back into town so we can find the closest police station . . . Would you close the door?’ He refused. He sat in the seat as I drove with the door open.” Then the alleged attack took place.

Jennings allegedly told Ammar “the cops wouldn’t do anything to him because he pays $10,000 in taxes,” court records state.


Sadly, the wealthy often have a sense of "privilege". I now live in a very well-to-do suburb of Boston and see it frequently. Two examples come to mind:

(1) Just before Christmas, I was in a crowded local store waiting in line to buy something. A well-dressed woman came in after me and tried, unsuccessfully, to cut in front of 5 other people in line in front of one of the two cash registers. She went to the back of the line, fuming.

A local cop came in and asked the crowd, "Does anyone here own the green Land Rover outside?" The well-dressed woman said she did. He told her it was parked in a fire lane and she couldn't park there. She responded, "You'll just have to wait until I'm finished my business here. Don't you know who my husband is?" as he left the store, ticket book in hand, she followed him out. The last thing I heard her say as the door closed was "My husband is a senior Vice President at Raytheon. If you write me a ticket - we'll have your badge!"

(2) A popular local restaurant has one large dining room that is also used for functions and several smaller dining rooms (It’s a Colonial-era inn). One Sunday, the large dining room was being used for a wedding reception. A man and his wife came in, clearly wealthy, and demanded that the wedding reception be moved to another room because their “favorite table” was in the large dining room and they wanted to sit at their "favorite table". I happened to be near the front desk paying my bill and heard the whole thing.


< Message edited by Fightdirecto -- 3/6/2012 8:22:49 AM >


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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 11:23:32 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Sadly, the wealthy often have a sense of "privilege".


As you know: Study Result: Wealthy more likely to lie, cheat and steal

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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 11:29:55 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

This guy was drunk.....

On a couple of Coors and a few hypothetical beers that he can't account for?
The guy isn't just a racist tightfisted cunt, he's a lightweight as well...

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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 1:58:04 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Money will change hands and it will all be made better.

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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 6:42:36 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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We are hearing one version of the story. I'm not saying the cabbie is necessarily lying, but I don't see why we have to believe his version of events as being the only possible thing that could have happened.

I had a cab driver purposely slowly drive into me at an intersection when I was crossing the street as a pedestrian. (And I successfully pursued this guy in court).

I have a friend who was physically attacked by a cab driver who got angry at her because she complained about the route he was taking.

There is a livery driver who raped a female passenger who passed out in his back seat - and he was in fact charged with that crime.

Not all cab/livery drivers are good people. That's all I'm saying. (Flightdirecto, no ill will meant towards you or the company you drive for.)

At the end of the day the dispute in question here is only about money. Has it occurred to anyone that the cabbie knows the guy is rich and tried to ensure he would be in a position to sue the banker for physical assault (a civil suit that has nothing to do with whether the police charge this guy with a crime)? I'm sure this cabbie will ultimately get way more than $204 once the court system is done. I don't think we need to feel too sorry for the cabbie. He will have no trouble finding a contingency-fee lawyer to sue the pants off the banker if he so wishes.

You know, there are always two sides to the story. Again, I'm not saying the cabbie's version is necessarily false. I'm just saying, gee, I don't know yet. Jury's still out.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 3/6/2012 6:48:36 PM >


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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 7:15:48 PM   
Fightdirecto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
At the end of the day the dispute in question here is only about money. Has it occurred to anyone that the cabbie knows the guy is rich and tried to ensure he would be in a position to sue the banker for physical assault (a civil suit that has nothing to do with whether the police charge this guy with a crime)?

So the cabbie magically and mystically knew that the banker was carrying a knife and the cabbie knowingly and willingly forced the banker to attack him with that knife just so he could sue him later for physical assault?



You're right about one thing: the dispute in question here is about money - the banker has a lot of it and didn't feel he should give any of it to anyone who performs a service for him. The banker and the cabbie agreed on a fare of $204.00, when they got there the banker tried to stiff him on the agreed fare and offered only $50.00 (possibly because, since he only makes 2 million dollars a year, the banker couldn't afford to pay the other $174.00 he had previously agreed to pay).



I had an interesting talk with the contractor who recently remodeled the kitchen at my house. He told me that he never takes a job for a really wealthy client - because the only clients who have ever tried to not pay him after the work was completed have been millionaire clients.

It almost makes you miss the good-old-days of New York City when all five cab companies in town were owned by one of the Five Mafia/Cosa Nostra Families (the company I drove a cab for was owned by the Bonnano Family). Nobody robbd a cab driver - and nobody stiffed you on a fare. If anyone did either of those things, their bodies would be hauled out of the East River a few days later.


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"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 7:28:19 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama




Yeah, but here's the real dilemma (and I've always felt, the whole "limiting SSI payments" to X max salary annually or having a different rate for "earned income" vs. "unearned income" is just plain stupid): Getting EVERY American citizen to pay something is gonna be a problem.

I don't give a shit if the lowest guy on the rung pays 8 bucks....everyone needs to pay something. Some skin.

Most of my income is "unearned" income, which means regardless of what I earn (a little or a lot)....I pay the least in taxes.

Now....it's also true, I create a shitload of jobs.

Does that make me special?

Nope....it makes me creative and able to create. It's something I'm quite good at.

But if I earn 50K, 500K or millions....I think I should pay the same as everyone else.

Dat ain't da way it woiks.

(Hib....weigh in on this....bring some good data to the discussion please).

It's ridiculous that someone that works 300 hours and makes as much as those who work an entire year should pay less in actual dollars (not %) in taxes.

Should I be compensated for what I bring to the table?

HELL YES!!!!

(And I am).

Everyone should pay something, but.....earned income should be taxed EXACTLY the same way that unearned income is and SSI should be taxed on entire earnings.

But they need to do one very simple thing before I'd actually agree to the above:

Get their fucking mitts off the cashbox.

Leave it where you and millions of others put it....where it belongs, waiting for you when you retire.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 3/6/2012 7:29:14 PM >

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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 7:55:06 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
At the end of the day the dispute in question here is only about money. Has it occurred to anyone that the cabbie knows the guy is rich and tried to ensure he would be in a position to sue the banker for physical assault (a civil suit that has nothing to do with whether the police charge this guy with a crime)?

So the cabbie magically and mystically knew that the banker was carrying a knife and the cabbie knowingly and willingly forced the banker to attack him with that knife just so he could sue him later for physical assault?



You're right about one thing: the dispute in question here is about money - the banker has a lot of it and didn't feel he should give any of it to anyone who performs a service for him. The banker and the cabbie agreed on a fare of $204.00, when they got there the banker tried to stiff him on the agreed fare and offered only $50.00 (possibly because, since he only makes 2 million dollars a year, the banker couldn't afford to pay the other $174.00 he had previously agreed to pay).



I had an interesting talk with the contractor who recently remodeled the kitchen at my house. He told me that he never takes a job for a really wealthy client - because the only clients who have ever tried to not pay him after the work was completed have been millionaire clients.

It almost makes you miss the good-old-days of New York City when all five cab companies in town were owned by one of the Five Mafia/Cosa Nostra Families (the company I drove a cab for was owned by the Bonnano Family). Nobody robbd a cab driver - and nobody stiffed you on a fare. If anyone did either of those things, their bodies would be hauled out of the East River a few days later.



Here is the thing. A civil suit of physical assault only requires the banker to have tried to harm him in some way physically - it doesn't require a knife. So the cabbie doesn't have to think the guy has a weapon to end up with an altercation with him that then turns physical. I said physical assault - not assault with a weapon.

The very fact that the banker has so much money is exactly what makes this story very odd. People I know who have money think nothing of going to clubs downtown and dropping thousands of dollars on bottle service, etc. In other words, people who have money usually have no trouble spending it. That is what is odd here.

Contractors are another matter entirely. Do you know how many complaints the Better Business Bureau gets about contractors?? Again, you are hearing the contractor's word and just accepting it as fact. There is always another side to the story. I know many people who've had to fire contractors for all sorts of issues and problems. Contractors are not a group that I hold out as being particularly honest (from personal experience - even for a small job).

I'm not saying the cabbie is not telling the truth. I'm just saying we've only heard his version of the story. There is always another side. I'm not sure why you think this particular cabbie is absolutely telling the truth. Do you know him personally? Are you honestly telling me that all working class people never lie?

The last time a friend of mine was robbed it was by someone who was poor. And relatively speaking, my friend is comfortable. Does that mean the cops should believe "the guy just dropped his wallet, I was trying to return it" story because it came from a poor person? And discount my friend's story because he is gainfully employed in a nice job?

Again, this banker is going to get sued by this cabbie. And the cabbie is going to walk away with much more than $204. The cabbie, whether he is lying or telling the truth, is going to win this one. The very fact that the banker was drunk is going to discredit his testimony about what happened (whether he tells the truth or not). And the cabbie's claim about the racial epithets will make any jury sympathetic. The cabbie will get a pretty penny out of this.


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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 8:44:22 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

This guy was drunk.....

What excuse does half of the GOP have?


Well we know the GOP won't condemn him he's probably good for a $10-20k contribution over the average election cycle.
So it ain't a waste of your time though... anybody want some side-bet action on what democrat the GOP regurgitaters will claimapologized to the to the "foreigner cabby"?
I got ten bucks that says it's BlumeBorg


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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/6/2012 11:09:29 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
Here is the thing. A civil suit of physical assault only requires the banker to have tried to harm him in some way physically - it doesn't require a knife. So the cabbie doesn't have to think the guy has a weapon to end up with an altercation with him that then turns physical. I said physical assault - not assault with a weapon.


Getting way ahead of ourselves here, starting off with tort implications before the DA has even looked at the recently dried ink of the magistrate.

quote:


The very fact that the banker has so much money is exactly what makes this story very odd. People I know who have money think nothing of going to clubs downtown and dropping thousands of dollars on bottle service, etc. In other words, people who have money usually have no trouble spending it. That is what is odd here.


The only thing odd to me is that you've never come across people like this before, ... oh, except that actually not from the perspective of the cabbie. OK, I got it. Puzzlement understood better now. Not all 'people that have money' speak or act the same way to all people, and not all people (whatever income or status) speak or act the same way sober as when drunk.

quote:


I'm not saying the cabbie is not telling the truth. I'm just saying we've only heard his version of the story. There is always another side. I'm not sure why you think this particular cabbie is absolutely telling the truth.


The police and the magistrate heard both sides and arrested the attacker. They do this for a living, however imperfectly, but safe to say they've heard it all before and I'll take their judgment to this point above idle internet forum speculation. The DA will review both versions of the story and decide how/whether to proceed from there.

quote:


Again, this banker is going to get sued by this cabbie. And the cabbie is going to walk away with much more than $204. The cabbie, whether he is lying or telling the truth, is going to win this one. The very fact that the banker was drunk is going to discredit his testimony about what happened (whether he tells the truth or not). And the cabbie's claim about the racial epithets will make any jury sympathetic. The cabbie will get a pretty penny out of this.



You hate cabbies and contractors, we got it.



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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/7/2012 12:25:47 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

This sounds to me like an argument that got out of hand, and if I had to guess, both parties are at fault for allowing the situation to escalate. As a New Yorker, I can tell you that a certain percentage (not very high, but a certain percentage) of cab drivers here are rude and obnoxious themselves. I've certainly gotten into arguments with some of them over fares, routes, etc. So you have, possibly, a drunk passenger, maybe a slightly obnoxious cab driver, and suddenly things get out of control.

With that said, the cabbie is always due their legally entitled fare - provided they followed the route you asked for and otherwise abided by the laws that govern them. They are not allowed to ignore a route request and they are also not allowed to just charge whatever they want for a fare. That is against the law. With that said, physically attacking a cab driver isn't allowed either unless you are defending yourself.

I find it hard to believe that a wealthy banker was refusing to pay the cabbie his legally entitled fare unless something else had happened (were they disputing a pre-negotiated fare, was he refusing to pay because something else happened?). Drunk people get into cabs all the time in the city. They still pay their fares. Something tells me there is more to this story that what we are reading. And, if not, well obviously the banker is completely in the wrong, and in a way, that's that.

As for the racist comments by the banker - those sorts of comments are made more than one would expect. Sadly, the banker is just another American racist. And guess what - that's not just 1% of the American population.

I don't find it hard to believe at all. Wall street bankers have the most embedded sense of entitlement as anyone I've known in any profession or walk of life and they continue to operate that way now. Remember only wall street fraud...gets bailed out.

Once he pulls a knife...all bets are off. Cabbie should get a couple hundred thou...from the greedy capitalist scum and is likely to settle out of court.

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RE: "Class Warfare" gets bloody - 3/7/2012 6:09:49 AM   
fucktoyprincess


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Whether the DA's office decides to pursue this as a criminal act has nothing to do with whether the cabbie can sue the banker for physical assault. The two are completely different. And the burden of proof for a crime is completely different. So while the DA might determine that they have insufficient evidence to pursue a criminal charge, that has nothing to do with whether the cabbie can sue the banker separately in a separate civil law suit. The two legal proceedings have zero to do with each other.

I don't hate cabbies. Did you read my first post? I specifically said the following "I can tell you that a certain percentage (not very high, but a certain percentage) of cab drivers here are rude and obnoxious themselves". So most of them are good men and women. But a certain small percentage aren't. And without knowing anything else about these two people, how is it that you seem so certain that this cabbie is one of the good ones and not one of the bad ones.

And the study on millionaires didn't say ALL wealthy people lie about everything all of the time. That's not what the study concluded.

Well, please remind me next time I have some difficulty with someone that I should try and make sure they make more money than me because that will automatically make them guilty of whatever I accuse them of. And vice versa. God forbid I should end up in a car accident with someone poor, because no one will believe my version of events if I earn more than them.

For the record, the contractor who I dealt with for a minor renovation has a ton more money than I do. So by everyone's logic here about wealth, I guess the wealthy contractor (who absolutely lives in a very expensive home on Long Island - the house is easily worth a million dollars; sends all his children to private school) is absolutely in the wrong, and I, having far, far less money, am absolutely in the right. This is great. We don't even need a judicial system. We'll just place the blame on whoever makes more money than the other person and consider it justice.

To be honest, I'm kind of appalled at this attitude. This is like people saying an African-American is always guilty simply due to the color of their skin. Someone who has money, whether it is this banker, or my contractor, is not automatically wrong, or lying every single time. But by the same token someone who is poor is not automatically honest. Just like some people of African heritage commit crimes. The judicial process is about getting to the truth. Not using the shorthand of race, wealth, gender or any such thing to stand automatically for truth or lying or anything.

The DA may not pursue because they lack the evidence to pursue something. That doesn't mean anything about what the truth is.

Anyone who thinks that EVERY member of any group is automatically one thing or another is prejudiced.

AGAIN, I never said the cabbie is lying. I said, I DON'T KNOW. I wasn't there. I didn't see what happened.

Anyone who thinks "truth" is necessarily a inarguable thing should watch Kurosawa's Rashoman. Everyone has their own version of the truth.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to Edwynn)
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