RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (Full Version)

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laika2000 -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/6/2012 9:29:27 PM)

as someone who contracted hsv-2 from some who was circumsized, never showed any physical symptoms and did not know he even had the virus until i showed symptoms, was tested and subsequently had to deal with that reality ever since - may i ask why you posted this? do you have personal experience? or am i missing part of a bigger post?

i am upfront about having the virus because i am astonished at the amount of men i have met on this site who tell me "thank you for being honest, i have herpes and don't even know which kind but i know 'when it's safe' for me to have sex". what?! it's NEVER safe to have sex with herpes without telling someone. there is no "safe" time.

the majority of transmissions occur from asymptomatic people who do not even know they have the virus or, if they do they do have it, do not even know which type - you need a specific blood test given a number of months after exposure if you are not actually able to have a skin test during a breakout.

you may know all of this, but it is wildly apparent that many here do not, and i guess i don't understand the point of a random "you may be safe if...." type of post regarding a virus that 85% of the population has (hsv-1 oral or genital) and anywhere between 15-20 also have (hsv-2 oral or genital).

laika

and no "deranged" i am not including you in my conversation. you make me pleasantly violent however, so  at any point if you'd like to leave your bleacher seat for a round in the ring with me, please let me know.




kalikshama -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 7:39:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

In any academic level biology examination I will score at least thirty per cent better than you would.


My money is on hausboy for the "decent human being" test.




kalikshama -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 7:53:08 AM)

quote:

i am upfront about having the virus because i am astonished at the amount of men i have met on this site who tell me "thank you for being honest, i have herpes and don't even know which kind but i know 'when it's safe' for me to have sex". what?! it's NEVER safe to have sex with herpes without telling someone. there is no "safe" time.


Good for you for continuing to disclaim in the face of ignorance and apathy. Take comfort in the fact that these traits likely care over into other aspects of their lives.

Your post says "In response to DesFIP, but your later words and the content of her post suggest that you were responding to a different poster - please clarify.

Thanks,

KK




Rule -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 8:24:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
My money is on hausboy for the "decent human being" test.

Good for him.

His - bleeding heart - way, 25 per cent of your descendants will be carriers of these and other inherited diseases - which are characteristic of the Ashkenazic Jews (and presumably other circumcising or Jewish-like populations) - and many of your descendants will be ugly and evil (i.e. without a conscience):

quote:

Bloom Syndrome: Children with this very rare condition are small at birth and rarely reach 5 feet in height as adults. They also have red, sun-sensitive facial skin; lesions; an increased susceptibility to respiratory tract and ear infections and a higher rate of certain cancers. The carrier rate is about one in 100 for Ashkenazic Jews.

Canavan Disease: This disease affects children at about 2 to 4 months, at which time they begin losing previously attained skills. Most children die by the age of 5. Carrier rate: one in 40 Ashkenazic Jews.

Cystic Fibrosis (CF): CF causes the body to produce a thick mucus that accumulates primarily in the lungs and digestive tract, resulting in chronic lung infections and poor growth. Carrier rate: one in 25 Caucasians, including Ashkenazic Jews.

Familial Dysautonomia (FD): FD affects the regulation of body temperature, motor coordination, speech, blood pressure, stress response, swallowing, the ability to make tears and digestion. Carrier rate: one in 30 Ashkenazic Jews.

Fanconi Anemia - Type C: Fanconi Anemia is associated with short stature, bone marrow failure and a predisposition to leukemia and other cancers. Some children may have learning difficulties or mental retardation. Carrier rate: one in 89 Ashkenazic Jews.

Gaucher Disease - Type 1: This is the most common Jewish genetic disease, occurring in one out of every 1,000 Ashkenazic Jews. Symptoms usually begin in adulthood. Sufferers experience bone and joint pain, fractures and other orthopedic problems, anemia, easy bruising and poor blood clotting. This disease can now be treated safely and effectively with enzyme replacement therapy. Carrier rate: one in 12 Ashkenazic Jews.

Mucolipidosis IV (ML IV): ML IV, one of the most recently recognized Jewish genetic diseases, is caused by the accumulation of harmful substances throughout the body. Individuals with ML IV experience a range of progressive motor and mental retardation, usually beginning at age 1. Early signs can include eye problems such as cornea clouding, crossed eyes and retinal degeneration. Individuals with ML IV currently are from one to 30 years old, and a prognosis beyond this age and life expectancy are not known. Carrier rate: unknown.

Niemann-Pick Disease - Type A: Niemann-Pick is a neurodegenerative disorder in which a harmful amount of a fatty substance accumulates in different parts of the body. Symptoms include loss of brain function and enlargement of the liver and spleen. The average life expectancy of children with the disease is two to three years. Carrier rate: one in 90 Ashkenazic Jews.

Tay-Sachs Disease (Infantile Type): Tay-Sachs disease is the most well-known Jewish genetic disease, potentially affecting one in every 2,500 Ashkenazic Jewish newborns. Children with Tay-Sachs disease develop normally until about 4 to 6 months of age when their central nervous system begins to degenerate because they lack an essential enzyme. The affected child loses all motor skills and becomes blind, deaf and unresponsive. Death usually occurs by age 4. Late-onset Tay-Sachs disease, which is more rare, has a slower and less severe progression of symptoms. Carrier rate: one in 25 Ashkenazic Jews.


The quote is from this website.

ETA: I suspect that cystic fibrosis in the heterozygous individual may confer some unknown benefit, so disregard that item.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 11:33:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

In any academic level biology examination I will score at least thirty per cent better than you would.

I'll take that bet seeing as it was one of my majors and my graduate work as well as the subject I taught on 3 different uni camouses.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 11:36:00 AM)

This sums it up.

[image]local://upfiles/664494/3F6C4EBBF3C84056BF0CAAB30E3A5F6D.jpg[/image]




outhere69 -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 5:15:17 PM)

Rule, as you've been told on several occasions, those diseases are due to folks sticking to a small community for begetting. This effect will happen to any small community without some kind of outbreeding.

A "super genius" would have better critical reasoning skills.




Soyokaze -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 5:16:52 PM)

Circumcision is terrible as a general health policy. How big of an effect would it have had if all those people wore condoms instead? We shouldn't be performing unconsented unnecessary surgeries on babies. If there's a medical necessity go for it otherwise, when they reach an age where they might be having sex present them the info/numbers and ask for their consent. People will go nuts over something genuinely helpful to society like vaccines, but when it comes to making their sons penis look like their dads people are all for that shit. Should we try to search out what other ways we can modify our children to make them more resistant to disease? What if removing someone's clit hood showed good numbers for disease prevention? Maybe with a desensitized clit from constant abrasion women will have sex less and therefore contract less sexual diseases. We won't know till we try right?




hausboy -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 6:58:04 PM)

Soyokaze

Circumcision is a personal decision made by the parents--there are public health benefits but the real reason to circumcise or not circumcise lies with the family of the child. As someone who was raised Jewish, I do not find the practice damaging or barbaric as some have described it. I find no fault with anyone who chooses to leave their boy's foreskin in tact.




hausboy -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 7:01:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

- and many of your descendants will be ugly and evil (i.e. without a conscience):



...Speaking of ugly and evil.....do us all a favor. don't breed.




laika2000 -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 7:24:23 PM)

kalikshama,

i was trying to reply to angelika. i am a complete luddite with forums and seem to never be able to chose between the above or below "reply" button. thank you for pointing that out. and for the encouragement to stay the course.

i have also met some fantastic people who are knowledgeable about sexuality, stds, responsibility, life, etc but until i have met people "in person" i can't post in the "positive experiences" section but i fully expect to do so.






laika2000 -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 7:32:30 PM)

wow. i am completely stunned.

are you twelve? live in a cave? under a rock? have you EVER spoken to a woman who has had a clitorectomy? are you somehow comparing being circumsized with that?! how grossly uneducated.

you need to seriously reconsider what you said in the final "argument" of your post.




Kaliko -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 7:42:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: laika2000

wow. i am completely stunned.

are you twelve? live in a cave? under a rock? have you EVER spoken to a woman who has had a clitorectomy? are you somehow comparing being circumsized with that?! how grossly uneducated.

you need to seriously reconsider what you said in the final "argument" of your post.



I took the final lines of her post to be a sarcastic comparison to shed some light on an alternative way of looking at circumcision, a process we consider to be so normal and accepted. I don't think she was truly making an argument for clitoral disfigurement.

(She can please correct me if I'm wrong. )




Kaliko -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 7:47:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Well, than I bet that the foreskin seal was broken before his penis had matured. Anyhow, a bit of infection is normal and easily dealt with and will in ordinary behavior not recur. So, likely his infections were due to ignorance among his relatives.




Rule, while this may be true, I don't believe it's an argument you can use.

Herpes is fairly common and for most people, is easily dealt with and in many cases, does not recur (not to anyone's notice, anyway). Yet you are quite often posting about how awful herpes is. How come herpes is so awful but an infection due to lack of circumcision isn't?

There are always exceptions, no? I would say your very severe case (as you've described it before) is evidence of just that. And this boy may have also been the exception to "infections are easily dealt with."






Soyokaze -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 8:19:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

Soyokaze

Circumcision is a personal decision made by the parents--there are public health benefits but the real reason to circumcise or not circumcise lies with the family of the child. As someone who was raised Jewish, I do not find the practice damaging or barbaric as some have described it. I find no fault with anyone who chooses to leave their boy's foreskin in tact.


No one finds the barbarism of their culture as barbaric.




Soyokaze -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 8:23:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laika2000

wow. i am completely stunned.

are you twelve? live in a cave? under a rock? have you EVER spoken to a woman who has had a clitorectomy? are you somehow comparing being circumsized with that?! how grossly uneducated.

you need to seriously reconsider what you said in the final "argument" of your post.



You seem to have mistaken removal of the clitoral hood with clitorectomy, which are two completely different things. You've kind of made a fool of yourself and should retract your "argument" of mine. What I described is analogous to circumcision in men.

Edit: I should probably add that either way I don't condone any of it as should be obvious from my original post.




hausboy -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 8:25:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Soyokaze


quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

Soyokaze

Circumcision is a personal decision made by the parents--there are public health benefits but the real reason to circumcise or not circumcise lies with the family of the child. As someone who was raised Jewish, I do not find the practice damaging or barbaric as some have described it. I find no fault with anyone who chooses to leave their boy's foreskin in tact.


No one finds the barbarism of their culture as barbaric.


and like a few on this website, no one finds their antisemitism to be bigotry




laika2000 -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 8:57:02 PM)

retract? no. did i misinterpret? yes. however the sentiment remains that i have to side with hausboy in his notice of your sweeping belief of jewish barbarism. i'm hoping your name doesn't tag you as japanese or we can talk barbarism.

maybe we should also quit cutting umbilical cords and just let things take their natural course?

ask the child when they're old enough to make a decision as to whether they want to be separated from their mothers?

frankly, i love how these threads completely derail from the original idea. i believe i asked angelika why she felt compelled to post her initial?

you're welcome to comment on that as well as i'm certain you will.




Soyokaze -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 8:59:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laika2000

retract? no. did i misinterpret? yes. however the sentiment remains that i have to side with hausboy in his notice of your sweeping belief of jewish barbarism. i'm hoping your name doesn't tag you as japanese or we can talk barbarism.

maybe we should also quit cutting umbilical cords and just let things take their natural course?

ask the child when they're old enough to make a decision as to whether they want to be separated from their mothers?

frankly, i love how these threads completely derail from the original idea. i believe i asked angelika why she felt compelled to post her initial?

you're welcome to comment on that as well as i'm certain you will.



You've descended into complete silliness. I guess I should have assumed from your initial jump to name calling.

Edit: PS you may want to find out what the umbilical cord is actually connected to before you make it the basis of your argument.




Rule -> RE: Circumcision linked to drop in HSV-2 (3/7/2012 9:03:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69
Rule, as you've been told on several occasions, those diseases are due to folks sticking to a small community for begetting. This effect will happen to any small community without some kind of outbreeding.

A "super genius" would have better critical reasoning skills.

Indeed, DomKen gave me pause when he supplied that argument. However, though the math is convincing, I do not buy it. I don't because that model neglects the power of sexual selection - if present; and it is not present in circumcising populations nor in other - like the Amish and their ilk - similarly reproducing populations (nor - by definition - in indiscriminately reproducing populations).

That is what a super-genius does: to consider possibilities that ordinary people fail to consider. Sexual selection will be selected against in circumcising populations and promoted in non-circumcising populations; and that is the reason why I am opposed to circumcision.




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