RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (Full Version)

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Kainundeva -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 2:14:10 AM)

land of the free? my arse.
republicans and islamists should be biggest buddies, judging by things like that.
a weapon for everybody, as long as he keeps his wife(s) down and goes to church/mosque.

scary.




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 2:16:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

The fact than women... can be 'caught'... (by way of filing for BC coverage) and men cannot be 'caught' for doing the same thing appears to make this a discrimination issue.



That's a VALID point... what's good for the goose is good for the gander.









DesideriScuri -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 3:23:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
http://www.wearewomenmarch.net/
Help defend women’s rights and pursuit of equality. Join Americans all across the United States on April 28th, 2012, as we come together as one to tell members of Congress in Washington DC and legislators in all 50 states, “Enough is enough!”
All Americans have the right to make decisions about their own bodies, including contraception, without interference from government, business or religious institutions.


Agreed. Who should pay for said contraception or any consequences you may encounter from the decisions you rightly make?




Owner59 -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 3:32:55 AM)



"Agreed. Who should pay for said contraception or any consequences you may encounter from the decisions you rightly make?"




The insurance carrier......the one she/he pays money to.


Why is that any of your business in the 1st place?




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 6:38:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper
Looks legit... CRAZY AS ALL FUCKING HELL ... but legit


This sums it all up quite nicely. We are in crazy times. People need to stand up for their rights, or they will piece by piece, bit by bit, be eroded away, and we will 100 years down the road wonder what exactly happened....




DesideriScuri -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 6:52:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
"Agreed. Who should pay for said contraception or any consequences you may encounter from the decisions you rightly make?"
The insurance carrier......the one she/he pays money to.


The correct answer is the person who is making the decision. Now, if that person chooses to pay premiums to an insurance carrier for that coverage, that's fine. There is nothing wrong with that.

quote:


Why is that any of your business in the 1st place?


Because there are people who are being forced to purchase insurance. These people are, then, being forced to subsidize the consequences of other peoples' actions, but not because they are choosing to. They are being forced to do so. Additionally, millions of tax payers are going to be forced to subsidize the consequences of the actions of people who aren't paying into the insurance.

That makes it my business. Oh, and should the person paying the bills have any say in the decision?




Iamsemisweet -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 8:29:24 AM)

Personally, I would rather see people forced to buy insurance than allow them to continue to use emergency rooms as their primary care. Hospitals could not turn them away, and so had to charge more for other services to make up for it, as well as making emergency rooms less available for true emergencies.

I don't know why contraceptives are being singled out here. Insurance is all about pooling risks. Which means I have to pay for the health problems of people who are overweight, or who smoke, or who play risky sports, or any one of a hundred other things that make it more likely that someone else's healthcare will be more expensive than mine. Do I get to forbid my employees from eating at McDonalds because that violates my personal health code?


If cost is your issue, it is always going to be cheaper to pay for birth control than pregnancy care. It could be said that these employers who refuse to cover BC are increasing the cost of my insurance, since I am being forced to pay for unwanted pregnancies as part of my pool. So their narrow-mindedness IS my business.




tazzygirl -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 8:35:33 AM)

Insure more women and some of those pregnancies may never occur at all, thus reducing costs.




kalikshama -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 9:00:13 AM)

quote:

Given you've challenged the other poster if they've "read the entire bill", posted a link to the Bill, and are the OP of this thread, I'm assuming YOU have both (i) read/researched the "entire bill", and (ii) can easily cite the EXACT SECTION of the Bill which states/implies the "Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control" -- as opposed to being fired for "...lying to an employer's insurance representative in order to get contraceptives paid for when they would not normally pay for them", as the other poster suggested.  Please copy/paste the EXACT SECTION of the Bill which supports your OP's premise. 


I am provisionally agreeing with MSLA that this conclusion is a stretch and hope some lawyers chime in:

Use birth control, get fired? Yes.

The Republicans who control the Arizona legislature are pushing through a bill that would make it OK for both religious and secular employers to deny coverage for contraception if the employers object for moral reasons.

But apparently that’s not all.

HB2625 in its current version also eliminates the following protection for employees:

“A religious employer shall not discriminate against an employee who independently chooses to obtain insurance coverage or prescriptions for contraceptives from another source.”

In the most recent version of HB2625 (see it here) that provision is removed (scroll down to the very end).

What does that mean?

According to ACLU of Arizona Public Policy Director Anjali Abraham, it means that an employer may be able to discriminate against an employee if he finds out that she (or he?) is using contraception.

“I think this just goes to what we’ve been saying about the bill,” she said. “It isn’t really about guaranteeing an individual’s religious liberty but ultimately is about eliminating access as much as possible to basic health services for women.”

The bill already has passed the House and on Monday was approved by a Senate committee.

I contacted the bill's sponsor, Rep. Debbie Lesko to ask about this.

She wrote back to me on Tuesday, saying in part, "There have been no discrimination cases brought forward regarding this issue either before 2002 or after 2002 (when current law went into effect.) We do not single out other prescriptions and other things and say that we can't discriminate against using them, so why single out this one issue? It is not necessary."

I'm not sure that answers the concerns, however. The new law lets employers off the hook in terms of providing contraceptive services. If it also lets them off the hook in terms of discriminating against employees who purchase such things on their own doesn't that open up the possibility of discrimination or firing?

The ACLU's national office says that employers can now "claim" to be able to fire employees for using birth control. (Federal law may well supercede that.)

Arizona ACLU's Abraham told me, "I just wanted to be clear that it's the employer making that claim without getting into whether or not the employer has the right to do so (that may be a more complicated question.) Certainly, though, HB2625 removed an existing protection that would prevent an employer from firing a woman for getting birth control on her own, which is very troubling."




kalikshama -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 1:08:38 PM)

Check it out - not only do you have to pay for the script for non-contraceptive birth control and submit a claim with your employer, but they can charge an administrative fee for this red tape!

http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/text/596074

Z. Notwithstanding subsection y of this section, a contract does not fail to meet the requirements of subsection Y of this section if the contract's failure to provide coverage of specific items or services required under subsection Y of this section is because providing or paying for coverage of the specific items or services is contrary to the religious beliefs of the employer, sponsor, issuer, corporation or other entity offering the plan or is because the coverage is contrary to the religious beliefs of the purchaser or beneficiary of the coverage.�

If an objection triggers this subsection, a written affidavit shall be filed with the corporation stating the objection.� The corporation shall retain the affidavit for the duration of the contract and any renewals of the contract. This subsection shall not exclude coverage for prescription contraceptive methods ordered by a health care provider WITH prescriptive authority for medical indications other than for contraceptive, abortifacient, abortion or sterilization purposes.�

A corporation, employer, sponsor, issuer or other entity offering the plan may state religious beliefs or moral convictions in its affidavit that require the subscriber to first pay for the prescription and then submit a claim to the corporation along with evidence that the prescription is not in whole or in part for a purpose covered by the objection.�

A corporation may charge an administrative fee for handling these claims.

[Note that the following standard for "religious employer" and protections for employees are crossed out:]

3. Subsection Z of this section, "religious employer" means an entity for which all of the following apply:

(a) The entity primarily employs persons who share the religious tenets of the entity.

(b) The entity primarily serves persons who share the religious tenets of the entity.

(c) The entity is a nonprofit organization as described in section 6033(a)(2)(A) (i) or (iii) of the internal revenue code of 1986, as amended.



...C. Before enrollment in the health care plan, every religious employer that invokes this exemption shall provide prospective enrollees written notice that the religious employer refuses to cover all federal food and drug administration approved contraceptive methods for religious reasons.


...A religious employer shall not discriminate against an employee who independently chooses to obtain insurance coverage or prescriptions for contraceptives from another source.




farglebargle -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 2:08:23 PM)

".lying to an employer's insurance representative in order to get contraceptives paid for when they would not normally pay for them"

That's called INSURANCE FRAUD via filing a false claim. And it's always been illegal.

Why are the people who are screaming about Big Government passing laws which aren't needed because the 'crime' they create is already covered under existing legislation?




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 2:52:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

".lying to an employer's insurance representative in order to get contraceptives paid for when they would not normally pay for them"

That's called INSURANCE FRAUD via filing a false claim. And it's always been illegal.

Why are the people who are screaming about Big Government passing laws which aren't needed because the 'crime' they create is already covered under existing legislation?


If I were to GUESS... there's likely no current provision/exemption in the law (for privacy reasons) for an employer to request an employee covered under their health plan provide documentation showing the purpose/need of certain meds -- but again, that's just a guess?!!





tazzygirl -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 3:58:03 PM)

~FR

Insurance companies already know why something is prescribed. Its called "coding".

V25.09 - Encounter for contraceptive management; other, Family planning advice

V25.01 - Prescription of oral contraceptives

http://www.findacode.com/icd-9/v25-01-prescription-oral-contraceptives-icd-9-code.html

The purpose/need is already explained.




Fightdirecto -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 5:32:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

"Some nutcase in AZ, a woman no less, has authored a bill that will allow employers to question their female employees about their sexual practices and their use of birth control. Use birth control for purposes of hormonal or acne treatment, you're ok. But if you use the pill to prevent pregnancy, the employer would have the right to terminate you."

http://angryblacklady.com/2012/03/13/arizona-law-would-allow-employers-to-fire-women-for-using-birth-control/


Reading the OP made me think about this:

If the law was enacted, could an employer question a MALE employee about his sexual practices and his use of birth control?

"So, Mr. Smith, do you use condoms when you have sex with your wife?"

"Yes."

"Well, I, your employer, am a faithful Roman Catholic and my church doesn't believe in the use of any form of artificial birth control. YOU'RE FIRED!"




LaTigresse -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 5:45:34 PM)

Ya, cuz those priests sure don't think about needing a condom for THEIR sexual activity of choice......




Lucylastic -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 5:54:05 PM)

Only cos they cant get preggers[;)]




xssve -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 6:02:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
http://www.wearewomenmarch.net/
Help defend women’s rights and pursuit of equality. Join Americans all across the United States on April 28th, 2012, as we come together as one to tell members of Congress in Washington DC and legislators in all 50 states, “Enough is enough!”
All Americans have the right to make decisions about their own bodies, including contraception, without interference from government, business or religious institutions.


Agreed. Who should pay for said contraception or any consequences you may encounter from the decisions you rightly make?

That's right, I paid for dinner and all those goddamn Margaritas, you better spring for the pill bitch, bare and wet, that's my motto! [8D]

My dick's too small to wear a condom anyway, fuckers keep slippin' off. [&o]




Lucylastic -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 6:04:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
http://www.wearewomenmarch.net/
Help defend women’s rights and pursuit of equality. Join Americans all across the United States on April 28th, 2012, as we come together as one to tell members of Congress in Washington DC and legislators in all 50 states, “Enough is enough!”
All Americans have the right to make decisions about their own bodies, including contraception, without interference from government, business or religious institutions.


Agreed. Who should pay for said contraception or any consequences you may encounter from the decisions you rightly make?

That's right, I paid for dinner and all those goddamn Margaritas, you better spring for the pill bitch, bare and wet, that's my motto! [8D]

My dick's too small to wear a condom anyway, fuckers keep slippin' off. [&o]


Fuck IM sure I would have remembered THAT XXSVE, I missed the margaritas too, did I dream it?
grins yes Im funning you




xssve -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 6:20:27 PM)

You don't remember? What do you think the fucking Margarita's is for?

I was fantastic, I'm sure of it, although I don't remember that much myself. [:-]




SternSkipper -> RE: Arizona law will allow female employees to be fired for using birth control (3/15/2012 6:35:48 PM)

quote:

I've looked into this. This bill prevents someone from lying to an employer's insurance representative in order to get contraceptives paid for when they would not normally pay for them just for contraceptive purposes.


May I see what you looked into? Or is this one of those Nicholson things where we "can't handle the truth"?




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