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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:29:08 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


Especially when 911 told him NOT to.



Right!!


Wrong!! They said "We don't need you to do that," when Zimmerman said he was following Martin.

And the police have said (say it with me now) he was under no legal obligation to listen to the dispatcher.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:30:27 AM   
Musicmystery


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Again, the point was a scared man isn't going to follow the person at this point.


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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:31:26 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

But self-defense does not require that.


Does self-defense require following someone 911 told you not to follow?


If you're going to keep beating this drum, at least get right what said.

I'll post it again, since you missed the first 20 times:

Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"
Zimmerman: "Yeah."
Dispatcher: "We don't need you to do that."

And again...the cops have said he did not have to listen to that.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:32:34 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

If you're going to keep beating this drum, at least get right what said.


I'll post it again.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Again, the point was a scared man isn't going to follow the person at this point.



Not a word about the legality drum you're wearing out.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/24/2012 12:33:03 AM >

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:33:47 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Again, the point was a scared man isn't going to follow the person at this point.




Again, the assertion isn't that he was scared the moment he saw Martin. It's that while on his back, bleeding from multiple injuries, he feared Martin enough to pull the trigger.

Seriously, why does this distinction escape you?

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:36:12 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Not a word about the legality drum you're wearing out.


Don't play coy. You're the drummer talking about how "the dispatcher told him to stop," when she did no such thing. You can't even get the quote right, despite its appearance in most major media outlets in the country.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:37:53 AM   
Musicmystery


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You are being very, very silly. You are also insisting on arguing something I haven't even mentioned. erie is right--you are doing backflips. If you want to whine people aren't reading you right, read others right. Accuracy is your thing, no?

There was no reason to get near the guy. The police were on the way. 911 warned him off. He followed anyway. So at the very least, he's stupid. But certainly not scared. And certain not at that point in any kind of self-defense situation.

If indeed he later needed to defend himself, he went out of his way to get into that situation.

Definitely. not. scared.

Definitely. very. stupid.

The legality of it all will be decided in court.


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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:42:58 AM   
erieangel


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If he wasn't scared, why did he call 911 in the first place?

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:45:17 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
You are being very, very silly. You are also insisting on arguing something I haven't even mentioned. erie is right--you are doing backflips. If you want to whine people aren't reading you right, read others right. Accuracy is your thing, no?


Excuse me? Something you haven't mentioned? Really? On this very page and you can forget already? Did you not just post this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Does self-defense require following someone 911 told you not to follow?


Sure looks like your name to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
There was no reason to get near the guy. The police were on the way.


He felt there was a reason to follow, obviously.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
911 warned him off. He followed anyway.


Nope. They only said they didn't need him to do that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
So at the very least, he's stupid.


Or concerned for his neighbors.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
But certainly not scared. And certain not at that point in any kind of self-defense situation.


Until he was bleeding, on his back, in the dark.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
If indeed he later needed to defend himself, he went out of his way to get into that situation.


According to him, he tried to leave the situation.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:46:29 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

If he wasn't scared, why did he call 911 in the first place?



Since when is fear a pre-requisite for calling the cops? I've called them more than once in my life. Wasn't scared during any of the calls.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:48:22 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

He felt there was a reason to follow, obviously.


So we've established he's not the brightest guy.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:50:11 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
Here's a hint;

Repetition of stupidity does not make the stupidity any smarter, not even the speaker of such repetitive stupidity.

Here's a hint for you: repeated posting of "evidence" that isn't really evidence when you weren't there doesn't mean you know any better than any other poster does. You're guessing plain and simple. And what's worse, you're guessing based on prejudice. He's guilty in your eyes so you suggest and you speculate all toward proving he's guilty...yet you weren't there.


Here is an even better hint for you: Take your own advice!

There does indeed to be alot of evidence that shows the chain of events are at best, questionable. Before the police arrive and the moment Mr. Zimmerman contacts them, a series of events are only fortold from one person's perspective. However, we are not living in 1912 with the limited ability to understand evidence. In 2012 there are many more ways to aquire evidence. After the police become involved, things take an even shader turn down the unknown. There are alot of questions not being answered. There is only one witness at the scene of the crime, holding the gun that fired the bullet that killed Mr. Martin. And his story is flimsy at best. What is worst, is that Mr. Zimmerman holds no remorse for killing Mr. Martin, as if the whole thing was justified. If you killed someone that turned out to be innocent and minding their business, wouldnt you feel just a tad bit sad, if not, begging forgiveness from the kid's parents?

When it comes to the police, things turn even more murky. The evidence is less forth coming, the police behaving less open to the public's outcry, and they have a history of corruption in the past. This doesnt help the police's credibility factor. And now they are being investigaged by both state and federal law enforcement. Even if the police were vindicated, and frankly, at present I dont see how they could be, the road back to being 'credible' to the public will be a long one.

Back to Mr. Zimmerman himself. After factoring out all the information that is bias 'for' or 'against', one is left with very little in the way of evidence that shows Mr. Zimmerman acted in the right manner, given the situation. We do not have information on his frame of mind that night, or in general. Likewise, if he was a neighborhood watch captian, wouldn't that imply there are people reporting to him? You cant be the commander of an army if you dont have an army. From what I've read of typical neighborhood watchs, one does not keep following/chasing/pursuing (did this just for DM....) after the police have been contacted and told not to follow/chase/pursue (again, for DM's benefit folks). Likewise, the carrying of firearms is frown upon as it could lead to vigilante justice rather than the rule of law. More so, a neighborhood watch would have several members whom could be contacted and verify information.


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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:52:37 AM   
erieangel


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quote:

According to him


And you believe a man who violates the rules of community watch by carrying a gun in the first place?

Like you keep telling everybody else, you weren't there. You don't know he was trying to "leave the situation" or if it is just something he is saying with the help of his police buddies.

You weren't there and don't know that he was really "on his back, bleeding for multiple injuries". Injuries which didn't even require doctor attention, I might add.

The big bad 150 lb child (and yes, a 17 yr. old is still a child legally) scared Zimmerman so much with his hoodie and black skin and can of tea that Zimmerman just had to follow him to see what he was up to...killing him when the kid tried to defend himself against a much older, much heavier follower (to use your benign choice of words).

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:52:49 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
So we've established he's not the brightest guy.


So it's not bright to have concern for your neighbors? Man...glad I don't live near you.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:57:10 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Here is an even better hint for you: Take your own advice!


Ummm I am. I'm not the one convicting the guy based on nothing more than a "flimsy story."

Presumption of innocence...

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
if not, begging forgiveness from the kid's parents?


If I felt justified, I wouldn't beg forgiveness from anyone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Back to Mr. Zimmerman himself. After factoring out all the information that is bias 'for' or 'against', one is left with very little in the way of evidence that shows Mr. Zimmerman acted in the right manner, given the situation.


But there is the presumption he did, absent any evidence to the contrary.


(in reply to joether)
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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 12:58:29 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
So we've established he's not the brightest guy.


So it's not bright to have concern for your neighbors? Man...glad I don't live near you.

We've also established that you're not that good at being honest about what's been said, that you're determined to spin spin spin.

I'm glad you don't live near me too.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 296
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 1:03:03 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
And you believe a man who violates the rules of community watch by carrying a gun in the first place?


He violated no rules. As it's been said time and again -- he wasn't acting as neighborhood watch when he spotted Martin. He was returning home from personal errands. Thus, he was quite legally allowed to have his gun.

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
Like you keep telling everybody else, you weren't there. You don't know he was trying to "leave the situation" or if it is just something he is saying with the help of his police buddies.


Presumption of evidence, until proven guilty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
You weren't there and don't know that he was really "on his back, bleeding for multiple injuries". Injuries which didn't even require doctor attention, I might add.


Presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
The big bad 150 lb child (and yes, a 17 yr. old is still a child legally)


Legally, 17-year-olds can and have been charged as adults. Try again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
...scared Zimmerman so much with his hoodie and black skin and can of tea that Zimmerman just had to follow him to see what he was up to...killing him when the kid tried to defend himself against a much older, much heavier follower (to use your benign choice of words).


Once again, since you missed it the first 10 times, he needn't be scared while following, only while on his back, bleeding from his injuries.



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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 1:04:51 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
We've also established that you're not that good at being honest about what's been said, that you're determined to spin spin spin.

I'm glad you don't live near me too.


I've not been honest? You're the one who denied saying something (on the very page on which you said it).

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 1:14:54 AM   
erieangel


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quote:

Legally, 17-year-olds can and have been charged as adults. Try again.


Only when they've committed felonies. Last I knew, Trayvon Martin had no record, had never been arrested. Legally, he was a minor, a child.


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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/24/2012 1:25:45 AM   
DarqueMirror


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Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

quote:

Legally, 17-year-olds can and have been charged as adults. Try again.


Only when they've committed felonies. Last I knew, Trayvon Martin had no record, had never been arrested. Legally, he was a minor, a child.


17 is also the legal age of consent for things like sex and joining the military, though the latter must come with parental consent.

(in reply to erieangel)
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