RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


erieangel -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 8:01:15 AM)

quote:

Presumption of evidence, until proven guilty.



Zimmerman won't be proven guilty nor innocent if charges are never brought...




MrBukani -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 8:08:27 AM)

This will become a shooting gallery for gangs.
They will get gangmembers without criminal records to defend them in the streets.[:D]




Owner59 -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 8:44:09 AM)

Who is George Zimmerman, and why did he shoot Trayvon Martin?

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0324/Who-is-George-Zimmerman-and-why-did-he-shoot-Trayvon-Martin


"George Zimmerman, the Florida neighborhood watch captain who shot unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin,
wanted to be a police officer and mentored an African-American boy.
Is he a vigilante or, as one neighbor said, 'a good dude'?"

"George Zimmerman, the 28-year-old former altar boy whose shooting of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager, has caused a national uproar, has withdrawn into seclusion. His lawyer says he’s afraid for his life amid numerous death threats.

As Florida and federal investigators dig into the Feb. 26 shooting and the Sanford Police Department's decision to not charge Zimmerman with a crime, attempts to understand the shooting have focused on the extent to which Zimmerman's past experiences colored his decisions in the moments before Trayvon died.

Critics have called Zimmerman a racist vigilante who initiated a conflict with Trayvon largely because of a profile: A black man wearing a hoodie walking through a gated neighborhood. If the FBI finds evidence of this, Zimmerman could be charged with a federal hate crime."






Kirata -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 9:00:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Zimmerman won't be proven guilty nor innocent if charges are never brought...

And they may not be. Here's some more grist for the mill, courtesy of the Salt Lake Tribune from the AP wire:
    Attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Martin’s parents, said the teenager was on the phone with his girlfriend back home in Miami after he left the store. Martin told the girl he’d taken shelter from the rain briefly at an apartment building in the gated community before continuing his walk to where he was staying with his father nearby.

    It was then that Martin told the girl he was being followed, according to Crump. She said Martin told her someone was following him and that he was going to try to lose him. He thought he had lost Zimmerman but hadn’t...
So we have Martin loitering at the entrance to a building where he doesn't live, and trying to "lose" his tail, all certain to inspire confidence in Zimmerman that Martin is just a nice fellow on his way home from the store.
    "He says, ‘Oh he’s right behind me, he’s right behind me again,’" Crump says the girl told him. "She says: ‘Run.’ He says, ‘I’m not going to run I’m just going to walk fast.’ She hears Trayvon say, ‘Why are you following me?’ Other voice says, ‘What are you doing around here?’"

    She told Crump they both repeated themselves and then she thinks she heard Zimmerman push Martin "because his voice changes like something interrupted his speech." She heard an altercation and then the phone call was cut off.
Obviously you can't "hear" who pushed who. But what we do know is, when police arrived it was Zimmerman who was bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, with grass stains on his clothing and a witness who confirmed seeing him down. As for the weight difference between them, Martin was young and strong and fast, Zimmerman overweight and out of shape. Do the math. Zimmerman got a tuneup.

That said, however, the use of deadly force is only justified if a person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm, and everything turns on the word "reasonably." Looks to me like that's the call the Grand Jury is going to have to make, but Martin's behavior is going to have to be considered in order to determine the reasonableness of Zimmerman's belief.

But shit, if either of these two clowns had just answered the other's fucking question we probably wouldn't be here. For my money, the problem is starting to look more like testosterone than racism.

K.




farglebargle -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 9:15:19 AM)

quote:

Martin told the girl he’d taken shelter from the rain briefly at an apartment building in the gated community before continuing his walk to where he was staying with his father nearby.


I think it's a stretch to reach from 'standing under an overhang out of the rain IN THE PUBLIC AREAS OF THE BUILDING' to any actual CRIME.

Stop trying to blame the victim. Zimmerman admits killing Martin. If he thinks it's self defense, he can make a motion to dismiss during his arraignment on manslaughter.




MrBukani -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 9:16:39 AM)

I didnt know yet poor zimmerman had a bloody nose, I think he deserves more then a bloody nose.
Didnt knew there was a witness.
But the 911 call speaks for itself when they say dont follow him.(PS isnt an order from 911 about the same as a policeofficer sayin STOP)
Zimmerman knew he killed someone so a bloody nose would come in handy to defend his stance.
On the other hand it was obvious if there was a fight that Martin used his hands not a gun.
Zimmerman knew that.
So its not proportional.
Reading about zimmermans background he is gungho becomin a police officer.
He looks like a vigilante wannabe in every perspective to me.
Zimmerman could have used a club or bat or whatever if he cant fight and hold a gun.
He chose the gun.
Whats that saying again live by the ...
I think he should be locked up for life as an example.
And in a way its good it happened, so you can really think about your defense laws like SYG and gunlaws.
Cause if I make one mistake in my life I am not allowed a gunpermit.
And hommicidal maniacs without any convictions can carry all they like.
Doesnt sound like equality to me.




MrBukani -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 9:23:11 AM)

I prefer the good old hand to hand combat over here.
A lot more fun I can tell you.
I love guns, but rather do without them.
Still if I move to america to my friend, I will be very carefull where to go and what I will say.




Kirata -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 9:26:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Stop trying to blame the victim.

I'm getting a little tired of you accusing me of "blaming the victim" because I'm trying to consider all sides of this.

I know you're just having fun, but give it a break and type with both hands for a while.

K.






DaddySatyr -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 9:36:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Critics have called Zimmerman a racist vigilante who initiated a conflict with Trayvon largely because of a profile: A black man wearing a hoodie walking through a gated neighborhood. If the FBI finds evidence of this, Zimmerman could be charged with a federal hate crime."


And there is something that is very wrong. Once again, the law is trying to regulate what is in someone's heart and mind.

I understand how hate can be an aggravating factor and it should be something for a grand jury/jury/judge to take into account. The question remains (in my mind): Are we trying to legislate "right thinking" and "wrong thinking"?

There's a dead boy, here. That's the meat of the issue. Is Zimmerman guilty or not. That's what we need to know. There are plenty of people that don't particularly care fore certain groups of people and any psychologist will tell you that we all have some amount of prejudice. People that "hate" don't necessarily put that hate into action.

Like it or not, we're allowed to "hate". It's not a good way to go through life but it is part of being human (for some). Generalized "hate crime" bills are just another attempt to enslave as many people as possible.



Peace and comfort,



Michael




Kirata -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 9:44:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

There are plenty of people that don't particularly care fore certain groups of people and any psychologist will tell you that we all have some amount of prejudice. People that "hate" don't necessarily put that hate into action.

Like it or not, we're allowed to "hate". It's not a good way to go through life but it is part of being human (for some). Generalized "hate crime" bills are just another attempt to enslave as many people as possible.

Don't get me started. If I ever have to bury the murdered body of someone I love, the last thing I want to hear is that the murderer would have gotten a stiffer sentence if my loved one had been gay or black. That's just fucked.

K.




jlf1961 -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 9:50:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Zimmerman won't be proven guilty nor innocent if charges are never brought...

And they may not be. Here's some more grist for the mill, courtesy of the Salt Lake Tribune from the AP wire:
    Attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Martin’s parents, said the teenager was on the phone with his girlfriend back home in Miami after he left the store. Martin told the girl he’d taken shelter from the rain briefly at an apartment building in the gated community before continuing his walk to where he was staying with his father nearby.

    It was then that Martin told the girl he was being followed, according to Crump. She said Martin told her someone was following him and that he was going to try to lose him. He thought he had lost Zimmerman but hadn’t...
So we have Martin loitering at the entrance to a building where he doesn't live, and trying to "lose" his tail, all certain to inspire confidence in Zimmerman that Martin is just a nice fellow on his way home from the store.
    "He says, ‘Oh he’s right behind me, he’s right behind me again,’" Crump says the girl told him. "She says: ‘Run.’ He says, ‘I’m not going to run I’m just going to walk fast.’ She hears Trayvon say, ‘Why are you following me?’ Other voice says, ‘What are you doing around here?’"

    She told Crump they both repeated themselves and then she thinks she heard Zimmerman push Martin "because his voice changes like something interrupted his speech." She heard an altercation and then the phone call was cut off.
Obviously you can't "hear" who pushed who. But what we do know is, when police arrived it was Zimmerman who was bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, with grass stains on his clothing and a witness who confirmed seeing him down. As for the weight difference between them, Martin was young and strong and fast, Zimmerman overweight and out of shape. Do the math. Zimmerman got a tuneup.

That said, however, the use of deadly force is only justified if a person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm, and everything turns on the word "reasonably." Looks to me like that's the call the Grand Jury is going to have to make, but Martin's behavior is going to have to be considered in order to determine the reasonableness of Zimmerman's belief.

But shit, if either of these two clowns had just answered the other's fucking question we probably wouldn't be here. For my money, the problem is starting to look more like testosterone than racism.

K.




Just a few questions for you.

1) have you ever taken shelter from a rain storm when you were walking?
2) did you live there?
3) DOES UNARMED MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?

Every post of yours in this thread has been geared to make the one who died to be in the wrong. I guess you would find it to be Christ's fault for being crucified.




LoreBook -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 10:04:22 AM)

My instinct is to blame Zimmerman and to want him punished. But you've raised enough valid points to have me questioning that. I'm also thinking of the number of times that there has been a public outcry whipped up by the media that resulted in the wrongful conviction of the person the media selected for punishment.

I guess, the best scenario would for him to be charged and stand trial, so his guilt or innocence could be established in a court of law, rather than in the media.

Its always best to look a little deeper into things, rather than just go with one's first reaction and allow emotions to dictate. Thanks for the timely reminder.





farglebargle -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 11:31:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Stop trying to blame the victim.

I'm getting a little tired of you accusing me of "blaming the victim" because I'm trying to consider all sides of this.

I know you're just having fun, but give it a break and type with both hands for a while.

K.





It's not "fun" correcting the same retarded lies and bullshit over and over and over from people who aren't even competent enough to prove the crucial citations of law to support their claims.

Some say that 776.013 gives Zimmerman the right to defend himself. But they ignore that 776.043 DENIES Zimmerman any protection once he did what no reasonable and prudent person would -- specifically, while having cause to believe that Martin was dangerous, terminate his call to 9-1-1 in order to chase after Martin -- against advisement and against the policies of every legitimate neighborhood watch.

The moment Zimmerman started chasing after Martin, he became in the context of THE LAW the aggressor in the confrontation, and as 776.043 CLEARLY SHOWS, his options then are limited, AND the burden of proof is his entirely.

There aren't any SIDES.

FACT 1: Martin is dead.

FACT 2: Zimmerman did it either through act or negligence

That's it. That's the OBJECTIVE STANDARD OF LAW FOR CHARGING FELONY MANSLAUGHTER IN FLORIDA If there's any other "sides" to consider, you do that as a pretrial motion to dismiss for self-defense, or whatever...

And pretending that isn't the beginning and end of this issue IS blaming the victim.

THERE IS **NOTHING** TRAYVON MARTIN DID TO CONTRIBUTE TO HIS DEATH.

HE IS NOT A CRIMINAL. HE IS NOT AN ALLEGED CRIMINAL. THE FACTS DO NOT SUPPORT THE CLAIM THAT HE ATTACKED ZIMMERMAN OR COMMITTED ANY OTHER UNLAWFUL ACT.

So, by framing your 'inquiries' as "I'm just trying to show", you're actually propagandizing the assertion that Martian was **IN ANY WAY CULPIBLE**

Stop blaming the kid for getting shot.




Kirata -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 11:49:37 AM)


Well okay, a token of my goodwill then...

[image]http://www.swimoutlet.com/photos/2470-2T.jpg[/image]

K.




DaddySatyr -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 11:52:14 AM)

Now, that is some funny shit, right thar! LOL



Peace and comfort,



Michael




Hillwilliam -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 11:59:19 AM)

We may be getting to why Zimmerman has recieved the treatment he has for the past several years from the police and judicial system in the area.

This is from page 2 of the CSM article that O59 posted.

"Zimmerman's father, a retired magistrate judge, fought back against those allegations in a recent letter to the Orlando Sentinel."

Imagine that. His old man is a retired judge and voila, he is allowed pretrial diversion for a felony arrest (Resisting arrest and bettery on an officer). Then when his gf has a restraining order on him, it is swept under the rug and now, when he shoots someone, all he has to do is claim "Self Defense" and the police violate several of their own Standard Procedures and just let him walk.


I think the fact that his old man is a retired judge might have a lot to do with this.

I've seen different accounts of the time frame of his 50 or so calls to 911. Some say this year and some say as much as 5 years. I can tell you that if someone calls 911 50 times in 3 months around here, officer friendly will be visiting them with a gentle reminder for them about laws concerning "Abuse of 911".




MrBukani -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 11:59:24 AM)

I wouldnt play the racist card either, it could even help zimmerman in his defense in the end.
And if the victim would have been a whitey I think zimmerman would still have got his gun out.
He is just a triggerhappy fella.




Kirata -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 12:15:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

"Zimmerman's father, a retired magistrate judge...."

Interesting. More grist for the mill. Thanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I've seen different accounts of the time frame of his 50 or so calls to 911. Some say this year and some say as much as 5 years.

If you're neighborhood watch in an area that experiences a fair amount of crime, is that really over the top? I dunno.

K.




DaddySatyr -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 12:43:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I wouldnt play the racist card either, it could even help zimmerman in his defense in the end.
And if the victim would have been a whitey I think zimmerman would still have got his gun out.
He is just a triggerhappy fella.


Yep. That's gonna help race relations. More separation. Kudos to you!

I'd like you to turn that sentence/thought around and chew on it for a while.



Peace and comfort,



Michael




farglebargle -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/24/2012 12:48:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

If you're neighborhood watch in an area that experiences a fair amount of crime, is that really over the top? I dunno.



If you're neighborhood watch, you don't patrol with a firearm and you never follow or confront anyone.

Don't tarnish the thousands of volunteers in legitimate N/W programs, by associating them with this piece of shit child murderer who likes to PRETEND he's part of a neighborhood watch.




Page: <<   < prev  15 16 [17] 18 19   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
6.201172E-02