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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 7:39:40 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		How is holding the admitted shooter of an innocent kid for trial on manslaughter charges inconsistent with Due Process, or in any way characterizable as 'lynch mob justice'?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/21/2012 7:41:20 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 7:56:16 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Well, I actually agree with RealOne on something. Congratulations Universe, you win
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

I am not ready to jump on your lets hang the crazy mexican bastard band wagon until a grand jury looks at the case.

there is such a thing called "due process of law".

not edwyin and farges hang em first ask questions later lynch mob justice



It is not at all unusual for a suspect to be booked, which unbeknownst to some here, is not the equivalent of a conviction.

Unless a judge disallows bond, the accused can put up the money and wait at home. You know, like 99.999% of all the other accused-under-suspicion do.

Unless we think that there is something 'so speshul' about Zimmerman as in contrast to any other legitimate suspect.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/21/2012 8:01:37 PM >

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 8:07:22 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Unless we think that there is something 'so speshul' about Zimmerman as in contrast to any other legitimate suspect.


Well, there is that thing where a LOT of suspects aren't found standing over the dead kid's body holding an actual smoking gun, and admitting to the act... That sort of moves Zimmerman from "suspect" to "defendant" pretty quickly.

NORMALLY.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 8:23:03 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		suffice to say <-- correct grammar btw LOL

if they thought they had a viable case they would have him in custody, well they do not so its pretty clear to me there is more to this than first blush.

I just have to laugh at all the drama!

If this were the west you and your ilk would have hung who knows how many innocent people.

~DaMOB rules


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 8:49:36 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

suffice to say <-- correct grammar btw LOL

if they thought they had a viable case they would have him in custody, well they do not so its pretty clear to me there is more to this than first blush.

I just have to laugh at all the drama!

If this were the west you and your ilk would have hung who knows how many innocent people.

~DaMOB rules



It's the Sanford police, with an established record of 'lightening up' on their friends who have committed violent crimes.

The 'drama!' is all yours, sweet cheeks, as is your penchant in every post.

But I can well understand the real concern and the furrowed brow from someone who has acquitted Zimmerman of any and all charges in advance.

Shoot to kill, tax is theft, etc. yeah, we got it.



(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 8:54:11 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I think there is not enough of a case yet to even justify an arrest. He isn't a flight risk, from what I have heard. I doubt if he is dangerous, except when he is in neighbor watch mode. Why arrest before you are to make your case?

Or I could be completely wrong, and the police and DA are really racist bastards. That is kind of the point. We don't know, and law enforcement should not act based on popular, and possibly misinformed, opinion
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Well, I actually agree with RealOne on something. Congratulations Universe, you win
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

I am not ready to jump on your lets hang the crazy mexican bastard band wagon until a grand jury looks at the case.

there is such a thing called "due process of law".

not edwyin and farges hang em first ask questions later lynch mob justice



It is not at all unusual for a suspect to be booked, which unbeknownst to some here, is not the equivalent of a conviction.

Unless a judge disallows bond, the accused can put up the money and wait at home. You know, like 99.999% of all the other accused-under-suspicion do.

Unless we think that there is something 'so speshul' about Zimmerman as in contrast to any other legitimate suspect.






_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 8:57:40 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:


Ok, now you're putting us on. Given that Zimmerman's got an assault charge against a cop and a domestic violence rap on his record, and he's the sole member of the "FOREVER ALONE NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH", again, the Judge is going to start thinking about if this person is


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

This is a state by state list of what you are all calling Stand Your Ground, it's the Castle Doctrine Law, and it seems to me that Zimmerman is totally at fault. I hope he faces the full charges possible.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

I don't see any of these in place in what he did.

< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 3/21/2012 9:00:40 PM >

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 9:12:10 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		The Castle Doctrine is different. That refers to your ability to use deadly force within your home. Florida follows a different standard that allows shoot outs in the street.

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 3/21/2012 9:33:54 PM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 9:18:35 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
I think there is not enough of a case yet to even justify an arrest. He isn't a flight risk, from what I have heard. I doubt if he is dangerous, except when he is in neighbor watch mode. Why arrest before you are to make your case?


The usual course of events is that arrest and bail are the standard procedure for someone under suspicion while the DA's office makes their case, if any to be had. Unless you are proposing that the DA be woken out of bed and forced to scramble around to make his case in advance so as to allow any and all arrests as legitimate within that conscription. The evidence thus far only displays that the victim had a much stronger case for self defense and 'stand your ground' basis for any potential response to the aggression of the shooter than the shooter himself did.

Most times that bond is set, flight risk is considered. If Zimmerman is not held to be a significant flight risk by a judge or magistrate, then let the amount of bond reflect that, but let them, not the (apparently) friendly police, determine flight risk.

Things are not at all going how things normally go in such situations as this, that is what some people are blind to here.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/21/2012 9:28:16 PM >

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 9:23:50 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

The Castle Doctrine is different. That refers to your ability to use deadly force within your home. Florida follows a different standard that allows shout outs in the street.


do you have a link to that? I didn't realize there was a different standard, even from the 2 links I provided.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 9:31:49 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		The link you posted from Wikipedia explains the difference between the castle doctrine and stand your ground doctrines. Plus I learned about them in my crim law class in law school. Florida follows the Castle Doctrine, but also goes beyond it by allowing someone to use deadly force when not on their own premises.

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 3/21/2012 9:37:18 PM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 9:47:52 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I heard on the news that the two representatives who sponsored this law are saying Zimmerman should be arrested. I don't blame them for trying to distance themselves from the obvious results of their piece of shit legislation.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 9:54:28 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

suffice to say <-- correct grammar btw LOL

if they thought they had a viable case they would have him in custody, well they do not so its pretty clear to me there is more to this than first blush.

I just have to laugh at all the drama!

If this were the west you and your ilk would have hung who knows how many innocent people.

~DaMOB rules



It's the Sanford police, with an established record of 'lightening up' on their friends who have committed violent crimes.

The 'drama!' is all yours, sweet cheeks, as is your penchant in every post.

But I can well understand the real concern and the furrowed brow from someone who has acquitted Zimmerman of any and all charges in advance.

Shoot to kill, tax is theft, etc. yeah, we got it.





the fact that he is not booked establishes they do not feel they have a bonafide case.

and that is bullshit that anyone aquitted zimmerman, you just want everyone to join your lynch MOB.

yeh dead men do not talk, and paying for your shit ass kids to go to school on my fucking nickel is sanctioned gubafia theft. you got it. LOL


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 10:39:36 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
Thanks for that clarification.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/21/2012 10:40:06 PM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Stand your ground - 3/22/2012 4:29:51 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

you just want everyone to join your lynch MOB.


By DEFINITION, "Lynch Mobs" do not call for the filing of a felony information and the commencement of criminal procedure against an alleged felon in accordance with all the precepts of Due Process and Florida criminal procedure law.

And anyone who is discussing the issue of florida's self-defense law WITHOUT referring to the ACTUAL LAWS, ( and considering the EXEMPTION if you provoke the incident -- which Zimmerman clearly did ), then you're just talking out your ass.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Stand your ground - 3/22/2012 4:52:44 AM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I heard on the news that the two representatives who sponsored this law are saying Zimmerman should be arrested. I don't blame them for trying to distance themselves from the obvious results of their piece of shit legislation.

Dennis K. Baxley, Republican of Ocala, sponsored the Stand Your Ground law in the Florida House of Representatives.

quote:

The tragic story of Trayvon Martin's death has ignited a great deal of debate about the Stand Your Ground law that seems to allow the defense claimed by his attacker, George Zimmerman. As the prime sponsor of this legislation in the Florida House, I'd like to clarify that there is nothing in the law that provides for the opportunity to pursue and confront individuals. It simply lets those who would be victims use force in self-defense...

...media reports about Trayvon Martin's death indicate that Zimmerman's unnecessary pursuit and confrontation of Martin elevated the prospect of a violent episode, and does not seem to be an act of self defense as defined by the law.


_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Stand your ground - 3/22/2012 9:04:24 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		"Sanford city manager says they were barred from arresting Trayvon Martin`s killer"



Proof that this stupid law is ripe for abuse.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Fightdirecto)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Stand your ground - 3/22/2012 10:14:46 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		'Stand Your Ground Law' at center of Fla. shooting

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Stand your ground - 3/22/2012 11:12:26 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Do you ever get the idea that secession can be a good thing ?
Does anyone know what the status is of groups that would like to take Texas and Florida out of the Union ?
Anyone know where I can donate money to these worthy causes ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Stand your ground - 3/22/2012 12:12:04 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		More run-ins with the law. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-killer-had-brushes-prior-153033731.html

"In 2005, a woman filed a petition for an injunction against Zimmerman, claiming that he came to her house and became violent when she told him to leave, the Orlando Sentinel reports. Zimmerman, 21 at the time, filed a petition of his own in response"

In a lot of states, including mine, this would preclude a person from recieving a concealed carry permit.

So much for "Squeaky clean".

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 120
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