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RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 6:48:32 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Some people are just list makers and task organizers and journals and lists are tools they use. For me, lists and such are just one more thing to keep up with that takes me away from doing something else.


I love lists, and I wasn't knocking them!

I was just making the point that one shouldn't assume everyone has the same "life skills."

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 7:07:21 PM   
hausboy


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I'm not crazy about the tone of flylady either..... bit kindergarten for me...and I definitely would NOT follow her advice for the stainless steel sinks, btw. SOS pads on a stainless sink can be a disaster--some stainless surfaces (esp brushed stainless) will get seriously scratched from SOS pads. I only use them if the stains are really set in or there is something really sticky/crusty. I do, however, use a stainless steel cleaner and polish on my stainless sink and then I wash it out with a magic eraser followed by windex. It sparkles beautifully.

When I first got sober, one of the first things my sponsor had me do, was make my bed every morning as soon as I got up. A few years ago, I got out of the habit and I'm now back to doing this daily. It makes a world of difference to come back to a bedroom each day where the bed is made. Growing up, I never had an option--my bed was made each day. end of story. I never once, in the 18 years I lived at home, ever even THOUGHT of putting clothes anywhere except on a hanger or in the laundry basket. First time I saw a college roommate put her dirty socks on the floor, I couldn't believe it. I was stunned.

My brother and his wife are true, unabashed slobs. And while I fully support their right to live any way they choose, they have two kids who now also live as slobs, and have no idea how to live any other way. My mother (who is a minimalist & extremely tidy--I learned a lot from her!) is just dying over this, and has tried to teach her grandkids how to be organized, how to clean up after themselves, etc. They call my mother a "neat freak" obviously, coming from their parents. These kids (and they are very well-off) scavenge the floor for clean clothes (there aren't any) and often go out without socks or underwear because they can't "find any." It's just not right.

My hats off to all of you who properly teach your little ones the importance of cleaning up after oneself. It is a good lesson--they learn the value in taking care of things, as well as accountability for ones actions.

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 7:17:20 PM   
erieangel


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quote:

By the way, your kitchen looks mahvelous! Especially those cabinets!


Thanks for the chuckle.

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 9:33:07 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

My hats off to all of you who properly teach your little ones the importance of cleaning up after oneself. It is a good lesson--they learn the value in taking care of things, as well as accountability for ones actions.


You know, there have been periods in my life - due to pain, illness and depression - that I look back on with shame, because of how I lost control of our home environment. I'm very embarrassed to admit, my four boys have done their share of scrounging for clean clothes in the past.

I'm very lucky that my boys are so close to me, despite it all, and thankful those bad periods of our lives were far outweighed by the good ones. Today, my home is first and always in my heart as a safe haven for my friends and family and I feel very blessed each day to share it and keep it warm and welcoming for those I love. Warm and welcoming, not always neat and tidy.

I try to always keep in my mind how easy it is to lose control of things so that I don't ever get to that point again.

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 9:53:41 PM   
erieangel


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You know, there have been periods in my life - due to pain, illness and depression - that I look back on with shame, because of how I lost control of our home environment. I'm very embarrassed to admit, my four boys have done their share of scrounging for clean clothes in the past.


I have been the opposite. No matter how bad things got with the depression, my kids always (I mean ALWAYS) had clean clothes for school. The house was a total disaster because I'd not do any cleaning for weeks on end and we'd have pizza or sandwiches or frozen dinners for more suppers than I'd like to count, but they always clean clothes. That's not to say they didn't sit on dining table for days or even weeks, with dresser drawers totally empty, but the clothes were at least clean.


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RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 10:15:46 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bamabbwsub

I was reading a post in which several people mentioned the Fly Lady (www.flylady.com).

I had tried Fly Lady several years ago (even bought her book), and although she has some GREAT advice, I had a couple of issues with it/her:

1 - I found the tone of the web site to be somewhat cartoonish and perhaps falsely upbeat, if that makes sense.

Although I realize the merits of positive reinforcement, I guess I just didn't much care for the whole elementary school tone. It reminded me of a Weight Watchers meeting where if you lost 1/2 lb, you got a little gold star. Woo hoo! (<-- sarcasm) Some people really get into the cutesy stuff, but it actually has a tendency to turn me off.

2 - It seemed to me that her system is geared more towards people who don't work outside the home. Although everyone can find 15 minutes to shine a sink or pick up some items from a room, I never could quite figure out how 15 minutes was supposed to help me to really accomplish anything. What about the things that have to be done daily, like laundry, or cooking, etc.? Those take more than 15 minutes, and when I get home from work at 7 p.m. (or later), go grocery shopping, cook dinner (or go out), clean litterboxes, feed the dogs and cats, put a load of laundry in and/or take a load of clothes out of the dryer...it's time for me to go to bed. Sure, I could declutter for 15 minutes, but I couldn't figure out how I was supposed to clean such-and-such zone for "x" number of minutes every day in addition to all of the other crap I had to get done, without staying up until 1 a.m. every night.

I even e-mailed her to ask if she had a different system for people who worked outside the home, and her response was that her system works for everyone. I just couldn't quite figure that out. If I stayed home for 8 hours a day, I could set my timer for 15 minutes and do some cleaning and de-cluttering, but I'd also have plenty of time to do the other chores mentioned above that HAVE to be done on a daily basis.

I don't mean to disparage her system; heaven knows it's better than any system I've got! In fact, one of the BEST tips I got from her was to clean all of the trash out of the car while filling it up with gas. That has turned out to be a wonderful tip, and I do it every time I go to the gas station.

I'm just curious if anyone else had some of the same experiences? Did I miss something obvious? I just never really got the feeling that I was doing much more than keeping my head above water. For those of you who work full-time outside the home, do you/did you find that her system works/worked for you? If so, did you have to adjust her system somewhat to make it work, and how so?

With spring finally here, I'm ready to do some cleaning up and cleaning out!




I don't get it.

Am I supposed to clean my house or sumpin?

(I mean....that's beyond fucking absurd!)

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 10:26:48 PM   
LafayetteLady


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I have a tendency to be a pack rat.  I moved tote boxes filled with yarn from place to place as I moved.  Eventually I made a couple afghans from it.

There is something about going to bed in a freshly made bed, but often I don't make my bed each morning.  Lately, my physical issues have led me to need to lie down in the middle of the day, so making the bed each time would, in my opinion, be an effort in futility.

I need to make a conscious effort to make sure there are no dirty dishes left overnight, and to put things away as soon as I am done with them.  It does not come "naturally" to me.

But I have found that keeping things neat and tidy does improve my mood.  I am lucky enough that I just moved into a new place, so it was much easier to simply unpack and put everything away rather than try to clean up the mess.

My house is by no means "neat freak" clean, nor am I a minimalist.  However, after living with my past room mate, where I avoided ever having a friend over because the house was embarrassing, I do take comfort in the fact that if someone were to "drop by" unexectedly, I would not be embarassed or ashamed for them to see my main living area, as I consider it "clean enough."

I do satisfy my "clutter needs" by not always keeping my desk spotless, lol.  That gets straightened out once a week when I sort through the mail (yes, I only sort my mail once a week.).

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/26/2012 11:52:12 PM   
littlewonder


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I have been busy lately with schoolwork and other projects that I need to get done that my apartment has not been as clean as it usually is. So today I decided to take a break from it all and get some of it done. One of the good things for me is that I live in a little studio type of apartment so there's really not much to be done and thankfully I have a dishwasher and washer/dryer so it's easy to keep dishes and clothes clean. It only takes me maybe an hour and a half to really clean my place, although I put off my bathroom because I absolutely hate cleaning them. Ick. It needs to get done though tomorrow night or Wednesday.

My problem is papers. I bring home the social papers and calenders and they lie around. I bring home papers that are given to me by dr's, my trainer, school, etc...and some mail that I'm not sure if I want to keep or not because it may be something I want to look more into. It all gets piled either under my living room table or bookshelves until I finally get tired of looking at it all and go through it all and almost always at least 95% of it gets tossed anyhow. lol

So my advice if you feel you can't keep up with your house work? Move into a smaller space lol. Takes care of the problem quickly and leaves you more time to do all the other things in life that you wanna do.


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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 12:09:03 AM   
LafayetteLady


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Like you, I live in a really small place.  I have a living room/kitchen combo and a loft bedroom. Aside from the bathroom, that's my whole place.

I usually have a pretty basket that I toss mail/papers in.  The two nice ones I have ended up getting used for something else.  So right now, that stuff is either put on the one couch, the telephone table or on the floor next to where I normally sit.  Since I've only been here about a month, there isn't a big pile to deal with, lol.

I have tried to make it a habit to look at the mail immediately and throw out what I know is junk, which is going pretty well.  That is what I would do with all that paperwork you seem to accumulate.  For me, all the doctor stuff ends up getting stuck in my handbag, where it stays far too long, lol.

As to the OP though, I think she has an even smaller place than you or I do.  I mean really, once you are in a place that is essentially just a room or a room and a half, how much smaller can you really go?

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 12:20:23 AM   
CynthiaWVirginia


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Thank you, bamabbwsub. I had misplaced Fly Lady years ago when my old computer crashed.

For those of us who tend to be workaholics, Fly Lady has been a blessing; it helped me to set limits on myself and on my need to do something perfectly or not at all. Yep, I'm the type who gets on hands and knees with a toothbrush and scrubs the baseboards even behind the toilet and bathtub, where nobody else can see. This kind of behavior is what made me destroy both of my knees. The year I got my house, I'd spend most of the daytime outside taking care of my huge yard (planted fifty something dwarf and semi dwarf fruit trees, and around two hundred bushes and lots of blackberries and raspberries) and veggie garden...then I came indoors and scrubbed walls from top to bottom, scrubbed baseboards, etc., and painted and painted and painted. Stopping sometime after midnight.

During my last two chemos, Fly Lady helped keep me sane. Sure, everything looked like it had gone to hell in a handbasket but...I could count the times I did Fly Lady that day and feel some sense of satisfaction over completing each one. It cut back on the depression.

Cartoonish and upbeat? I needed that. Heloise, etc., was full of good ideas but I'd might run off on a cleaning frenzy and destroy myself, collapsing in a heap without energy to get off the couch for days afterward...then feel like shiite for being so lazy and getting *nothing* done. Much better to break things up into small chunks and make myself be satisfied by that.

I didn't make a binder, but put a dry erase chart on the wall. It stopped me from re-dusting the lightbulbs, yanno? It helped me stop avoiding getting something done because I didn't have the time or energy to do a good job. I didn't read the mail sent to me when I signed up for it except on rare occasions, mostly I just kept with that 15 minute thing, and once the ball was rolling, sometimes I'd do two back to back.

Another thing I should mention is that I have PTSD, and it's unfortunate that egg timers were one of my triggers. Could. Not. Get. Over. That. Not even with years of therapy. Anyway, I'd bought a cute lil hamburger timer to use during homeschooling. It had been retired but I dug it back out for Fly Lady. Between the cuteness and positive reinforcement of having done many Fly Ladies...the sound of egg timers ticking have no power to trigger panic attacks. Yay!

With yard work, I had to push myself until I dropped. In the house, Fly Lady kept the work limited so that it seemed like a contest with myself and not really like work. I needed this. Um, maybe I should mention my carpal tunnel in both wrists, lol. It helped with this as well. A movie then a Fly Lady. An hour of internet time and then a Fly Lady. Another benefit is that I would give myself 15 minutes...and something in me wanted to see how much I could possibly get done in those 15 minutes. When doing dishes, I would often be finished in 5 or 7 and then think, "my 15 minutes aren't up yet, what else can I do?" and squeeze in cleaning the cat litter, the microwave, or dusting the countertop and everything on it. Instead of slowing down and gearing up for the long haul, each Fly Lady was a race.

This reminds me. The kitchen and other garbage cans need scrubbing out...and I also need to rearrange stuff in my deep freezer. Doing the yucky stuff isn't so bad if it only takes 15 minutes.

It doesn't have to work for everybody AND I can sneak some Heloise, etc., into it whenever it's convenient. I never read about the clean out your car while the gas is filling up in the tank. My knees are too sore for all that but at least my boy can kill two birds with one stone.

Anyway...thanks for finding Fly Lady for me.

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 4:08:08 AM   
sunshinemiss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Exactly.  A journal about what needs to be cleaned?  Really?  How many people are lacking in life skills to actually need that?
<SNIP>


You know, I can appreciate that except for a couple of things for me personally. I find it really overwhelming to try to figure out what to do first and I just don't see the mess. I don't see the drain full of hair or the dirt from the plants on the counter. It doesn't hit my radar. Having the list that I altered to fit my situation is really helpful. Shoot, I use a calendar because I can't remember appointments, too! This really isn't any different. It's a cleaning appointment calendar more or less.

For some people, myself included, cleaning is not their/our forte. It would never occur to me to do some of the stuff people do. I was never taught how to clean - and let's face it, it's a skill. The fun thing about the list is the psychological joy of checking something off the list - that's a real humdinger for me. But I'm a virgo - we generally like lists.

The other thing is - some things just aren't a priority. For some people, a tidy home is one of things low on the totem pole of importance. While my house is generally clean, I had to learn HOW to clean it. Hell I still don't really know how to clean the floors. But I wing it without judgment - maybe because I recognize that it is a lesson to be learned. I don't wanna be around a place filled with vermin, but messy? Meh. When I need to clean, I do it while I'm on the phone with people or I'm listening to music. It's deadly dull without some distraction. *You* wanna live like a slob? Go ahead. It's no skin off my nose. Who am I after all? Me? I personally hate to iron clothes. Doesn't matter why. I. just. don't. like. it. So I sometimes wear wrinkly clothes. Heck when I ride the bus to work, carrying 2 bags of materials for class, and then walk up 7 floors to the classroom, my clothes are wrinkly whether I ironed them or not. I could use starch, but I don't like it. So screw it. I wear wrinkly clothes sometimes. I'm smart enough to not buy linen. I don't want to look *that* bad. But frankly, if somebody is gonna judge me because I'm not as tidy as they are, I don't think I really need them in my life anyway, thank you very much.

So seriously... what is up with all the judgment around this topic? It's like a fat thread with different details. At the end of the day, people do the best they can with what they've got. And we've all got at least one place we are total fuck ups.

best,
sunshine

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 6:04:18 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

It doesn't hit my radar.


In retrospect, putting someone in charge of cleaning who had a different radar setting than I do was a bad idea. I think flylady would have helped her...but that's water under the bridge now.

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 6:24:37 AM   
kalikshama


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Do any other women have a lowered tolerance for clutter pre-menstrually? This is also when I notice and clean floors, dust, and organize my desk at work. So I essentially schedule deep cleaning monthly because this is when I want to do it anyway. Or compelled, as the case may be.

If you had this premenstrual urge but are now menopausal, what happened to it?

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 6:44:06 AM   
ShaharThorne


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After I had Lizard, I did lists of the daily chores. It helped remind me what I was to do.

These days, I tackle 2 chores a days. Today its putting fishes in the tub for traction and sweeping chicken shit off of the porch (I was petsitting for my brother while they attended my aunt's funeral). Tomorrow or Thursday (jury duty tomorrow) its sweep and mop the floors and vacuum the one rug in the living room.

I plan out the chores according to my pain threshold. If I am feeling pain, do less. If no pain, do more.

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 6:48:41 AM   
Ishtarr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

While my house is generally clean, I had to learn HOW to clean it. Hell I still don't really know how to clean the floors.


This is the way my mother taught me. It may be the "Belgian way" of doing it seeing that Americans tend to use mops instead. Or it may just be that my mother is over-obsesive about cleaning floors. Either way, it's quicker and easier than you'd think from reading the description and yields awesome results.

- Start by sweeping or vacuuming well
- run a damp rag over the baseboards
- get a bucket with scalding hot water and a little soap, a large floorcloth (preferable microfiber) and a large floor squeegee
- soak cloth in bucket, wring out lightly and (still wet enough to drip) put on floor
- put squeegee on top of cloth and "wrap" cloth around squeegee
- wet as large a section of floor as there was water in the cloth
- when hitting a dirty spot that won't come off, use your heel through the cloth to apply more pressure and scrape and lift of dirt
- get cloth off squeegee, rinse in bucket and repeat until floor is done
- get squeegee without cloth and squeegee water all in all direction (preferable at the lowest spot of the floor; and yes, your floor should be wet enough at this point to make squeegeeing off the water in a large puddle fairly easy)
- wring out cloth until as dry as possible and gather up water by soaking cloth in puddle and wringing out in bucket when saturated
- get bucket of clean water and a clean cloth NO soap
- wet cloth in bucket, wring out really well (leaving just damp), apply to squeegee and go over the entire floor, rewetting and rewringing as frequently
- if you floor is prone to streaking, get clean dry cloth, apply to squeegee and go over entire floor, if not prone to streaking, air dry

- for wood floors, use the same process only use a lot less water (so don't make a puddle and squeegee it off) just use a damp rag with soap on the first run and a damp rag with soap on the second run, always do a "dry" run on wood as well to "buff" the finish to a shine

I prefer this method over a mop and bucket because instead of spreading around dirty water over the floor, you wet the floor really well, saturating the water with the dirt, and then gather the water and take it OFF the floor, dirt and all.
You can skip the second run over with a damp rag if you're in a hurry, but I usually make the effort of doing that also because when you go over the floor again with just a damp cloth, you also take off much of the soap residue and any remaining dirty that may still be on the floor, unlike with those swiffer wet jet things that basically clean by just spreading soap and chemicals all over the floor and leaving it there. I never really feel comfortable in my house when I've used chemicals and not rinsed them off afterwards with just clean water.

This is the only method of floor cleaning that I know off where when done, you can go over the floor again with the same process, and the second time the water will actually come off clean, proving the floor is actually clean.
Both with a swiffer, as well as with a mop and bucket, you can clean, and then immediately go over the floor again with the same tools, and your swifter or mop water respectively will come off the floor just as dirty as the first time you went over it. In effect proving that no matter how much you clean, your floor remains just as dirty as it was before you got started, and all you're doing is cosmetically masking exactly how dirty it is by distributing the dirt more evenly.


< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 3/27/2012 6:57:57 AM >


_____________________________


Du blutest für mein Seelenheil
Ein kleiner Schnitt und du wirst geil
Egal, erlaubt ist, was gefällt

Ich tu' dir weh.
Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 9:23:08 AM   
littlewonder


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My daughter who used to be the messiest person on the planet when she lived at home, has really changed. Since she moved into her own place and is with a boy who hates messiness, she's been keeping her place pretty organized. But what she and I see as clean are so radically different lol. I go over to her place, look around and start picking stuff up and moving things around and she looks at me and asks me what I'm doing hehe. While I give her credit for being much better than when she lived at home, I still nitpick at her place and think it's a little gross at times. If I say something to her she just says "what mess? It's clean". UGH. Drives me crazy.

I told her this spring I'm coming over and showing her how to deep clean and help her reorganize things. She just rolls her eyes and says I'm just being crazy and seeing things. lol


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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 2:57:58 PM   
sunshinemiss


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Ishtarr,
I agree with you about the chemicals. But wow, what a process. I'd rather stick a fork in my eye than go through all that. I can appreciate that you have a system that works for you and your sharing it. Personally, I'll stick to sweeping the floor and using a wet rag to spot clean and hiring someone once or twice a year to do the heavy duty cleaning.... I just hate cleaning. Very few things can make me more miserable than that. I'd rather spend my time working at something I love and making the cash to pay someone else to clean. I'm happy, I feel a great sense of accomplishment finishing a fun project, the other person makes some money, and the place is clean.

For me, that's a win.


best,
sunshine

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 3:16:33 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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We have one of those steam cleaner doohickeys for the tile floors. Which require endless cleaning. Vinegar and water for the solution.

My mother is a fiend for bleach and ammonia, two things that I hate the smell of. It must be generational... a friend of hers passed out cleaning because, get this: SHE MIXED BLEACH AND AMMONIA IN A CLOSED BATHROOM.

Yes.

I am willing to swear to you all that I have never done ANYTHING in my bathtub that required both of those chemicals to clean it. IT'S A BATHTUB.

I have this thing about smells... but smells are very personal things. My parrot's food has a smell, and when he decides to be splashybrrrd his cage smells of wet newspaper and wet bird food. It's not a great smell, but it's just a smell. Which makes my mom gag. Not unlike how the smell of bleach makes ME gag.

I cannot stand filth and squalor. I am fine with dust and clutter. I am really fine with OTHER PEOPLE'S dust and clutter. It's really okay with me if every horizontal surface in your home is covered with books and magazines. I applaud that. If guests come to our house, it's REQUIRED that we remove virtually all signs of human habitation. Honestly, I think that's one of the reasons that I despise entertaining, that ingrained notion that our house is not good enough for guests--and of course, how I was used as the skivvy for all those years.

I dusted the corner of my desk behind the computer today. My work is done.

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 3:32:28 PM   
MissDeborah69


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Never in my life did I EVER think CollarMe and Flylady would intermix...

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RE: Fly Lady - 3/27/2012 4:09:19 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I cannot stand filth and squalor. I am fine with dust and clutter. I am really fine with OTHER PEOPLE'S dust and clutter. It's really okay with me if every horizontal surface in your home is covered with books and magazines. I applaud that.


^This is the thing^  For the most part, this isn't about people who do or don't like cleaning or who do it super well or not.

Cleaning is NOT a "skill."  Being uber organized is a skill.  Being a person who feels a need to have a house so sterile clean the five second rule is redundant is not a skill, it is OCD.

Basic cleaning is common sense. It isn't a "skill" to figure out that if there is something crusty on the plate, you wash it off, or that if a glass of juice spills on the carpet, it needs to be cleaned up.

When my son was younger and still lived at home, he was responsible for cleaning the bathroom.  He was the one who typically made the toilet disgusting.  Now, with just me, it isn't disgusting and needs not more than a general wipe now and again. 

My house is lake front in a lake community which means mold and mildew is a constant issue to be dealt with.  It is one thing to feel as though the mold and mildew is winning the battle, and not have the knowledge (which can be easily found on the internet) to keep it at a minimum, compared to someone who takes the position that after they clean it, it just comes back, so why bother?  That isn't the difference between a person who has a "skill" and one who doesn't.  It is the difference between someone who refuses to live in squalor and one who is too lazy to do something about it.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
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