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RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 1:46:35 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		I think you're talking at the problem, if you catch my drift....

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 1:48:43 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

Hard drugs should be decriminalized but not legalized.


A distinction sorely lacking in a practical difference.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 1:56:40 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

Why do you think we dont have a crystal meth problem in Holland.


Or, just not enough cookers yet.

quote:

Only statistics can tell what is more harmfull.
And they all point to one thing.
Alcohol is the worst drug. The most related deaths and domestic violence etc.


I actually agree that alcohol is more harmful than pot (which is not in itself an argument for making pot legal)
But the statistics you cite are rarely corrected for frequency of use. That is; yes, there are more reported incidents of domestic violence relating to alcohol use than to meth use. But that's because there are more alcoholics/drinkers than there are tweakers. So far.
It certainly does not mean alcohol is a more benign drug than meth.
Which it isn't

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 2:10:15 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

"You used drugs, so we are sending you to prison for 5 years," model?


There is no such model

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to SoftBonds)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 2:14:59 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

As for drugs, it's very simple: people want drugs, and if you won't supply it, someone else will. People want what they want, and so long as it can be had, they will have it


Will then some people want to kill...so lets make it legal...Oh don't forget pedophiles heh make it legal too. Some would like machine guns and tanks...maybe even a few bombs in the cupboard lets make it legal. Damn I want some of your money and if I don't take it someone else will...so lets make robbery legal…hell legalize all crimes it will relieve us of supporting our prison system.

All bad ideas just as yours.

Butch


That is where all modern liberalism goes... no standards of behavior whatsoever.... no choice is better or worse than any other... except that some of them think that the legal robbery thing is the province of government only

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 2:25:53 AM   
truckinslave


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Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

First and foremost, the price of being a free people, is that some people will always be free to destroy themselves. I cannot agree with your position.

I must not have been clear, Butch. I'm very much in the "let's make all drugs legal, crowd."


On that freedom thing... where are you on healthcare?

On the legality and self-destruction thing, I'm pretty much there, actually. I think seatbelts should be an option. If you don't want to pay for them, order your car without them. Of course, I also believe in the restoration of the law of contracts; which means herein that an insurance company should have the right to sell only policies that do not pay for your injuries if you are involved in an accident when you are not wearing one.
And health insurance policies that do not cover you if you are found to have used any one of whatever drugs the policy proscribes, and that mandate a blood test every time you incur costs.

Most people so do not like freedom when it cuts both ways....

On the drug thing, I am all for the legalization of drugs for adults as long ass I have the absolute legal right to execute you on the spot, sort of like a self-defence thing only stronger (and hopefully your child, although I would not insist on that) if, for example, your child gives my child drugs.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 2:28:54 AM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline
quote:

the purpose of putting these folks in prison isn't to stop them from hurting someone else with their drug use, but to protect them from themselves.


Again you are totally wrong.
We do not jail addicts for their addiction.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to SoftBonds)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 3:43:39 AM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Good post Mr TH!

The other side of turning drugs into a legal revenue generating business is that funds currently set aside to fund the 'War on Drugs' are now freed up for more productive use elsewhere in the economy.

I haven't been able to get a single figure or calculation for this amount. But it must be astronomical, as it includes all the costs of enforcing current policy - countering, prosecuting and punishing all involved in the production distribution and consumption of 'illegal' drugs. We're probably talking in the hundreds of billions annually in the US alone.

Just one example: c80% of prisoners in Australia are serving time for drug related offences. So the costs of investigating, prosecuting and imprisoning all these people would go from the minus side of the ledger to the positive. The massive amounts of tax $ we're talking about here would be freed up for far more productive use elsewhere.

Such massive amounts, as well as the extra funds generated by the tax take on a legalised drug industry, would be especially appreciated during periods of budget stringency, which is precisely the situation that applies in the US and throughout the West currently.



Don't forget military operations that don't any longer need to happen.

TH's idea is possibly the most radical thing I've seen on these boards. But at the same time it might just be something that could fly. Very, very thought-provoking.

TH - do you think, maybe, you should hand in that Conservative Membership Card? ;-)


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(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 6:12:24 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

TH - do you think, maybe, you should hand in that Conservative Membership Card? ;-)




Since I'm talking about getting rid of a poorly thought out government intrusion into the lives of the people, that would be a, "no."

Maybe you should think about getting one?

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 6:13:06 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

That is where all modern liberalism goes... no standards of behavior whatsoever.


When you look at our sun, does it appear paisley to you?

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 7:04:01 AM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline 		I remember a police officer who was arguing for decriminalization of Pot, he said something on the order of "When I talk to other police officers, they start off asking how I could be for legalization. I ask them when was the last time they had to deal with a violent person on Pot. They stop and think, and think, and think. Then I ask when was the last time you had to deal with a violent drunk. That they can answer, since it was generally hours ago."
Nuff said on Pot?

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 7:08:55 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Yep

Just to make sure you are not the last poster......

(in reply to SoftBonds)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 7:16:26 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

TH - do you think, maybe, you should hand in that Conservative Membership Card? ;-)




Since I'm talking about getting rid of a poorly thought out government intrusion into the lives of the people, that would be a, "no."

Maybe you should think about getting one?


Nein. People are called 'conservatives' principally because they want to conserve things as they are. You do not. In fact, that much of a radical change, and towards freedom from government interference . . . you know what we're looking at here, don't you?

You're an anarchist, matey. Deal with it!


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(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 7:29:17 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

You're an anarchist, matey. Deal with it!




An anarchist calling for taxation and smarter government controls and regulation? I don't think so.

Gotta work, but there's still at least one big aspect I want to address in here.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 7:38:17 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

I remember a police officer who was arguing for decriminalization of Pot, he said something on the order of "When I talk to other police officers, they start off asking how I could be for legalization. I ask them when was the last time they had to deal with a violent person on Pot. They stop and think, and think, and think. Then I ask when was the last time you had to deal with a violent drunk. That they can answer, since it was generally hours ago."
Nuff said on Pot?


My father was in the police here in the UK- he says the same. 'Those pot-smokers never got violent. Waste of time our going after them. I'd never nick one if I could avoid it. I'd force them to get haircuts if I had my way, mind.'.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 1:07:13 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

War on Drugs "killing our children"


I can't seem to recall... did the War on Drugs begin before or after the CIA began trafficking drugs?

(Sorry if someone beat me to the punch. No time to read 5 pages of posts here.)

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 5:21:50 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

The saddest fact is that it is the poor, the mentally ill (90% of mentally ill people live in poverty) and the disenfranchised who turn to drugs. Being high helps to make a bad life lived in uncomfortable, unlivable surroundings seem not so bad after all.




Not so.

The UK is full of well heeled drug users, including some from the richest of families. Cocaine is the drug of choice for many holding down top paying jobs.

Sure, poor kids turn to drugs but rich kids do as well.

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 5:25:15 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

My father was in the police here in the UK- he says the same. 'Those pot-smokers never got violent. Waste of time our going after them. I'd never nick one if I could avoid it. I'd force them to get haircuts if I had my way, mind.'.


True but many long term pot smokers, especially those who started in early teens, end up with mental health problems. Add to that, while the users dont get violent, well not often, those making money from it do.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 6:02:02 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

My father was in the police here in the UK- he says the same. 'Those pot-smokers never got violent. Waste of time our going after them. I'd never nick one if I could avoid it. I'd force them to get haircuts if I had my way, mind.'.


True but many long term pot smokers, especially those who started in early teens, end up with mental health problems. Add to that, while the users dont get violent, well not often, those making money from it do.


Regulate it and tax it, if someone who makes money off it gets violent, take away their pot selling license. Wait, so you just proved that where pot is concerned, making it illegal is the cause of the violence? Thanks for making my argument for me dude!

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" - 4/6/2012 6:29:16 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
True but many long term pot smokers, especially those who started in early teens, end up with mental health problems. Add to that, while the users dont get violent, well not often, those making money from it do.


Certainly those who make money from it can be violent thugs - but that violent culture would be wiped out if the drug were to be legalised, I think. Pot smokers can end up with mental health problems, but it's usually difficult to say with confidence that it was the pot that caused those problems. Besides, there are plenty of socially-approved - and even socially much admired - ways of living that seem to lead to mental health problems. (Like being in the military, for instance.)

And I know plenty of people who, even in their middle-age, smoke a joint of an evening to calm themselves down. TBH, I suspect that the truth is a little like wine: supped in moderation, it's at worst harmless and at best actually good for you.


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(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 100
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