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Bullying... the results - 4/20/2012 4:33:46 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Sawyer Rosenstein's life changed on May 16, 2006, when he was a 12-year-old student at Eric Smith Middle School in Ramsey, N.J. That day, another student punched him in the abdomen, sending a blood clot to his spine, and eventually paralyzing him from the waist down a week later.

Rosenstein, who has been in a wheelchair for the past six years, is now a college student, and the case he and his family brought against the school district was settled this week for $4.2 million. The family's attorney, Jeffrey Youngman, told ABC News that this case is unique; he doesn't know of any other bullying case that has resulted in a larger settlement based on personal injury.

"This was a three-pronged case," he told ABC News. "We had to show that his paralysis was a result of the punch. We also found that the school knew Sawyer had been regularly bullied, and didn't do anything about it, and that the other student had showed violent propensities, and they didn't do anything about that either."

Rosenstein had sent emails to several school administrators in the months before the paralyzing punch telling them he was being bullied, at one point even saying he wanted to get it all "on record" in case anything happened to him in the future. He addressed emails to both the school guidance counselor and assistant principal, informing them of the bullying and asking for help.
.....

A separate, confidential settlement was reached with the family of the student who punched Rosenstein.

Rosenstein decided to study communications at Syracuse University after attended last year's final space shuttle launch as a credentialed media member.

"This is a case of triumph and moving on," Youngman told ABC. "Bullying is a real problem, and hopefully this family's courage can help show people what can happen, and how to stop it."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/school-district-pays-4-2-million-student-paralyzed-000356961--abc-news-topstories.html

And yet, As I read Fightdirecto's thread, its actually scary what is happening to our youth and how far it has been allowed to come.

Should it really have to come down to dollars and cents to get parents to teach their children "hands to yourself"?

I gotta ask,.... what would Jesus say about this (for the religious right)?

For all of us... is losing the ability to walk worth 4 million dollars?

Isnt it time we got these morons out of office?

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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/20/2012 10:19:11 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
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From: USA
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I am not sanguine about the way these cases are approached. In my view, an award of damages in the amount of the victim's medical treatment and psychological recovery costs suffices for the civil component of redress. The punitive component should be manifest in criminal negligence charges, not a winning lottery ticket for the "lucky" victim and his family.

K.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/20/2012 10:23:10 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Hmmm.. I dont view a 4 million dollar judgement as a "lottery ticket" for the loss of being able to walk. And, as we both know, money talks, especially when its coming out of someone's wallet. Maybe, in the future, school officials wont just pass the buck and sweep these issues under the rug.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/20/2012 10:26:12 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline 		Maybe we should stop coddling our kids and teach them life is hard and that sometimes they're going to hve to stand up for themselves.

This anti-bullying campaign is lame. Soon we will be unable to say nothing even remotely negative without being labeled as a bully.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/20/2012 10:38:02 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hmmm.. I dont view a 4 million dollar judgement as a "lottery ticket" for the loss of being able to walk. And, as we both know, money talks, especially when its coming out of someone's wallet. Maybe, in the future, school officials wont just pass the buck and sweep these issues under the rug.

The wallet it comes out of will be yours and mine in the long run. Additionally, since this is not the first case of its kind to be settled for cash instead of carry, any noticable salutary effect seems distinctly lacking. In my opinion, carrying a few "school officials" off to jail for a change would get the point across more clearly, and save the taxpayers a bundle in the bargain.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/20/2012 11:22:25 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/20/2012 10:52:46 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

Maybe we should stop coddling our kids and teach them life is hard and that sometimes they're going to hve to stand up for themselves.

This anti-bullying campaign is lame. Soon we will be unable to say nothing even remotely negative without being labeled as a bully.



I think some kids are unable to ,or afraid to stand up for themselves. With some kids it's not that simple. The anti-bullying campaign may be lame, I don't know but if it helps I'm all for it. Kids shouldn't be afraid to go to school or out of their own doors. Bullying is criminal. If an adult bullies another adult it could be grounds to "stand your ground" if you know what I mean.

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 4/20/2012 10:53:51 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to DarqueMirror)
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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/20/2012 11:00:29 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
I think some kids are unable to ,or afraid to stand up for themselves.


That's my point. We need to teach our kids that if they are being bullied they need to take a stand. Taking a stand doesn't mean you won't get hurt. It means you're showing the bully you aren't going to be an easy target.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
The anti-bullying campaign may be lame, I don't know but if it helps I'm all for it.


It won't. It will only do what we've already started doing -- teaching our kids that if they cry, we'll make things all better for them. No red-pen grading because it hurts their feelings; everyone gets a trophy; and no one ges bullied and forced to stand up for themselves. These kids are in for a rude awakening in the real world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
Bullying is criminal.


That's a stretch.


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
If an adult bullies another adult it could be grounds to "stand your ground" if you know what I mean.


Which means they are standing up for themselves, not being an easy target and hiding, waiting for the overworked police to save the day.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 5:39:28 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Maybe we should stop coddling our kids and teach them life is hard and that sometimes they're going to hve to stand up for themselves.


Ender Wiggin successfully stood up to bullies.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 6:05:20 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

Maybe we should stop coddling our kids and teach them life is hard and that sometimes they're going to hve to stand up for themselves.

This anti-bullying campaign is lame. Soon we will be unable to say nothing even remotely negative without being labeled as a bully.


Columbine was the result of bullying. Those boys stood up for themselves too. I gotta love it when people tell children to suddenly become adults and problem solve on their own instead of looking to the adults to teach them how.

Rosenstein went to the school, documented the bullying, and was ignored. Why dont we just strap a side arm to every kid who goes to school and let the chips fall where they may?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 6:06:46 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hmmm.. I dont view a 4 million dollar judgement as a "lottery ticket" for the loss of being able to walk. And, as we both know, money talks, especially when its coming out of someone's wallet. Maybe, in the future, school officials wont just pass the buck and sweep these issues under the rug.

The wallet it comes out of will be yours and mine in the long run. Additionally, since this is not the first case of its kind to be settled for cash instead of carry, any noticable salutary effect seems distinctly lacking. In my opinion, carrying a few "school officials" off to jail for a change would get the point across more clearly, and save the taxpayers a bundle in the bargain.

K.


You are so very right, it does. Society as a whole pays. And I agree that those who ignored this kid should be criminally charged. But that requires law changes. What politician is going to shoot themselves in the foot with that one?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 6:07:16 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

Maybe we should stop coddling our kids and teach them life is hard and that sometimes they're going to hve to stand up for themselves.

Tricky for a kid who's stuck in a wheelchair, I'd have thought.

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(in reply to DarqueMirror)
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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 6:15:03 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

Maybe we should stop coddling our kids and teach them life is hard and that sometimes they're going to hve to stand up for themselves.

This anti-bullying campaign is lame. Soon we will be unable to say nothing even remotely negative without being labeled as a bully.



Or we could try to raise our kids to respect others.

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DarqueMirror)
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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 6:45:54 AM   
subspaceseven


Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline 		I agree....I mean what's walking...If it's a lottery ticket of for loss then I'm sure he would give up his legs for 4 million

It seems the GOP in MO. has found the answer...just make it against the law to discuss all things gay in public schools.


http://www.thevitalvoice.com/news/50-latest-news/625-breaking

170.370. Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, no instruction, material, or extracurricular activity sponsored by a public school that discusses sexual orientation other than in scientific instruction concerning human reproduction shall be provided in any public school.



The bill, widely believed to violate of the First Amendment guarantee of Freedom of Speech, not only attempts to prohibit schools from even discussing gay and lesbian issues; it also aims to keep Gay-Straight Alliances from meeting on school grounds as approved extracurricular entities.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 7:07:49 AM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

Maybe we should stop coddling our kids and teach them life is hard and that sometimes they're going to hve to stand up for themselves.

This anti-bullying campaign is lame. Soon we will be unable to say nothing even remotely negative without being labeled as a bully.


On the one hand, I can't help but agree. Many of us grew up handling hard times during school and with friends just like everyone else and came out relatively unscathed. We think.

The anti-bullying campaign is really not as "lame" as it appears on the surface. If a student feels bullied, pressured, scared,...his ability to receive the same education as the other students are recieving is impaired. We allow for individual education plans and 504 plans for students who need special accomodations for instruction. If a student has a broken leg, they cannot participate in physical activities in gym so we allow them to do benchwork. If a student has an adverse reaction to stimuli, we modify their instructional delivery.

Well, being bullied is not a disability and it doesn't qualify for a 504 plan. (And I'm not suggesting it should.) However, being bullied does, indeed, result in some very real defecits in a student's ability to concentrate and learn. While it's not the school's responsibility to be sure a child has only positive relationships with all of his peers, it is the school's responsibility to be sure each child has access to the same educational opportunities. Therefore, it is the school's responsibility to provide a safe learning environment for all students.

The only way to provide this safe environment for all, short of modifying instructional delivery which we already know we cannot do, is bullying prevention. This has come to light only in the past few years, yes. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's coddling. We are more aware now of the adverse affects on a child's education that bullying can have. (A very basic example - if a child is too scared to come to school, he is not receiving his education. At all.)

It took me awhile to wrap my head around this, I admit. But now I look back and I wonder...if all of us who did experience some sort of bullying or harassment could remove those experiences, would our educational history and achievements be different?

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 7:24:22 AM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		I had been bullied all the time at school. I didstand up and defend myself, it got worse, not better. That tactic does not always work as well as some would like to espouse that it works.

< Message edited by Toppingfrmbottom -- 4/21/2012 7:25:19 AM >

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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 7:53:39 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Why is 4.2 million dollars punitive for this severe of an injury, even by your justification? This is a teenager who will be in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. I have a partner with a spinal injury. He constantly suffers from pressure sores, that have on occasion reached the bone. He has bladder infections twice a month that he cannot detect, so it often reaches his kidneys. He had one kid, then became sterile. His wife has to insert a catheter twice a day for him to urinate. He has to wear diapers and a urine bag. He requires nonstop assistance. How much would you have to be paid to live like that for 30-40 years? Oh yes, his life expectancy is much shorter than a normal person, also. Calling that lucky is one of the more ignorant things I have heard anyone say.

Criminal negligence charges against the school? It is a municipal corporation, and i doubt any one person was culpable enough to go to jail. They would have have paid a fine to the state, at most. Personally, I would rather see this poor bastard get the money.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


I am not sanguine about the way these cases are approached. In my view, an award of damages in the amount of the victim's medical treatment and psychological recovery costs suffices for the civil component of redress. The punitive component should be manifest in criminal negligence charges, not a winning lottery ticket for the "lucky" victim and his family.

K.



< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 4/21/2012 7:57:18 AM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 8:27:18 AM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Why is 4.2 million dollars punitive for this severe of an injury, even by your justification? This is a teenager who will be in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. I have a partner with a spinal injury. He constantly suffers from pressure sores, that have on occasion reached the bone. He has bladder infections twice a month that he cannot detect, so it often reaches his kidneys. He had one kid, then became sterile. His wife has to insert a catheter twice a day for him to urinate. He has to wear diapers and a urine bag. He requires nonstop assistance. How much would you have to be paid to live like that for 30-40 years? Oh yes, his life expectancy is much shorter than a normal person, also. Calling that lucky is one of the more ignorant things I have heard anyone say.

Criminal negligence charges against the school? It is a municipal corporation, and i doubt any one person was culpable enough to go to jail. They would have have paid a fine to the state, at most. Personally, I would rather see this poor bastard get the money.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


I am not sanguine about the way these cases are approached. In my view, an award of damages in the amount of the victim's medical treatment and psychological recovery costs suffices for the civil component of redress. The punitive component should be manifest in criminal negligence charges, not a winning lottery ticket for the "lucky" victim and his family.

K.




I don't know much about lawsuits and the like (thank goodness) but I have a hard time reconciling an award like that when the intent wasn't there. The boy who did the punching didn't do it with intent to put the other in a wheelchair. The knowledge was not even there, I'm sure, that it could happen. Seems to really be kind of a rare event, given the number of punches to the stomach that happen that don't result in paralysis.



< Message edited by Kaliko -- 4/21/2012 8:28:14 AM >

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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 9:01:49 AM   
PatrickG38


Posts: 338
Joined: 10/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
I think some kids are unable to ,or afraid to stand up for themselves.


That's my point. We need to teach our kids that if they are being bullied they need to take a stand. Taking a stand doesn't mean you won't get hurt. It means you're showing the bully you aren't going to be an easy target.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
The anti-bullying campaign may be lame, I don't know but if it helps I'm all for it.


It won't. It will only do what we've already started doing -- teaching our kids that if they cry, we'll make things all better for them. No red-pen grading because it hurts their feelings; everyone gets a trophy; and no one ges bullied and forced to stand up for themselves. These kids are in for a rude awakening in the real world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
Bullying is criminal.


That's a stretch.


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
If an adult bullies another adult it could be grounds to "stand your ground" if you know what I mean.


Which means they are standing up for themselves, not being an easy target and hiding, waiting for the overworked police to save the day.


Teaching violence as the answer for violence usually leads to guess what?

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 9:08:10 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		fast reply

This is the anti bullying program we use in the school system that i work in.

It is such a confusing issue that there has actually been a document placed on the county website trying to explain the difference between bullying and goofing off amongst friends.

Even with that document in place, it is still a judgement call many times. And, with judgement calls, errors will be made.

I am so fucking glad I am not a kid in this day and time. All we wanted to do was smoke dope and listen to music!

_____________________________

yep

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RE: Bullying... the results - 4/21/2012 9:08:14 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Columbine was the result of bullying. Those boys stood up for themselves too. I gotta love it when people tell children to suddenly become adults and problem solve on their own instead of looking to the adults to teach them how.


No. Columbine was the result of two pussy nutjobs who thought that guns were the answer -- in other words, you're partly right. No one taught them how to stand up to bullies, so they used guns because they were too afraid to stand up for themselves otherwise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Rosenstein went to the school, documented the bullying, and was ignored. Why dont we just strap a side arm to every kid who goes to school and let the chips fall where they may?


How about we teach our kids instead that not everyone is going to like them and not everyone is going to say nice things to them and do nice things for them and fight their battles for them.

When I was in middle school I had *no one*. I was picked on routinely until someone pushed me too far. A few bruised jaws and a weight-lifting class later -- no one fucked with me anymore.

I'm not saying I was a badass or anything. But when word starts to spread that the spindly lil' nerd was seen in gym class bench-pressing more than his own body weight....people decided I was no longer the one to fuck with.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 20
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