RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms

RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Anaxagoras -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 9:10:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras Israel hasn't built any new settlements since 1994 around the time of Oslo II, and frequently removes illegal outposts. The settlements only constitute two to three percent of the West Bank... Israeli settlements: Where, when, and why they're built September 15, 2009: According to figures from Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics and the Foundation for Middle East Peace (FMEP) in Washington, the settler population in the West Bank and Gaza has increased three times faster, on average, than the population within Israel proper since the 1993 Oslo peace accords were signed. Last year, the growth rate was 4.9 percent in the West Bank compared with 1.8 percent in Israel. Israeli settlement building picks up where it left off October 6, 2010: Several hundred building projects have been started since Israel allowed its freeze on settlement construction to expire on Sept. 26, according to settlement leaders. An investigation by the Hebrew daily newspaper Haaretz revealed that construction has begun on more than 350 new housing units — including 54 in Ariel, 56 in Kedumim and 56 in Karmei Tzur. The settlements of Adam, Kiryat Arba, Nariya and Mattiyahu all were listed as having from 20 to 30 new buildings each. Thats old news. This happened after the moratorium that the Palestinians didn't bother with. Many new construction projects are mostly quite small many of which have been long delayed. The fact that Israel hasn't built any more settlements despite the demands due to population expansion (which is voluntary) in the authorised settlements can also be taken as a sign of good faith. Other than some hardcore settlers virtually everyone in Israel acknowledges almost all the settlements must be removed and the Palestinians know this. Its just delaying tactics. Oslo II which Arafat signed up to stated that settlement issues would be resolved in final status talks so placing this demand before even going to the peace table is pure BS.

SoftBonds -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 9:14:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras Israel hasn't built any new settlements since 1994 around the time of Oslo II, and frequently removes illegal outposts. The settlements only constitute two to three percent of the West Bank... Israeli settlements: Where, when, and why they're built September 15, 2009: According to figures from Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics and the Foundation for Middle East Peace (FMEP) in Washington, the settler population in the West Bank and Gaza has increased three times faster, on average, than the population within Israel proper since the 1993 Oslo peace accords were signed. Last year, the growth rate was 4.9 percent in the West Bank compared with 1.8 percent in Israel. Israeli settlement building picks up where it left off October 6, 2010: Several hundred building projects have been started since Israel allowed its freeze on settlement construction to expire on Sept. 26, according to settlement leaders. An investigation by the Hebrew daily newspaper Haaretz revealed that construction has begun on more than 350 new housing units — including 54 in Ariel, 56 in Kedumim and 56 in Karmei Tzur. The settlements of Adam, Kiryat Arba, Nariya and Mattiyahu all were listed as having from 20 to 30 new buildings each. K. I think he means Israel has not officially endorsed building in new areas, expanding existing areas and tacitly letting folks build in new areas without official state support, moving more people into the existing areas, etc. doesn't count doncha know?

SternSkipper -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 9:16:57 AM)
quote: General Benny Gantz thinks 'rational' Iranian leadership will not build nuclear weapons And you be sure to let us know when "RATIONAL LEADERSHIP" is actually leading Iran, and on that day, we'll all breath a big sigh of relief. But for the time being, the country is being run by kooks.

Anaxagoras -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 9:24:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds I think he means Israel has not officially endorsed building in new areas, expanding existing areas and tacitly letting folks build in new areas without official state support, moving more people into the existing areas, etc. doesn't count doncha know? Softbonds, don't do me the discourtesy of telling others what I really mean. You raised the issue (not sure if it was directly at myself), which isn't really that relevant to the topic, seemingly as if it places blame on Israel for Iran developing nuclear weapons. The whole issue of settlements preventing the peace process or leading to Iran's nuclear programme doesn't convince. In 1947 the Arab League announced the intent to commit a mass genocide if any Jewish state was established. The Arabs also rejected a tiny Jewish state in UN181. Within hours of Israel declaring its independence in 1948 eight Arab states began an invasion. Again they made a play in attempting to destroy Israel in 1967 with Nasser repeatedly threatening publicly a mass genocide of the Jewish populace. Israel offered to give back almost all the territory after the Six Day War in 1967 but the Arab League at Khartoum issued the "Three No's". Egypt was ejected from the Arab League when it made peace with Israel (with the return of the Sinai), and its leader assassinated. People can spin this anyway they want but in truth this is fundamentally a religious conflict rather than about Palestinians. Israel is in the heart of Dar al Islam. Thats the reason so many Muslims all over the world can't abide its existence, and neither can a theocratic state that funnels hundreds of millions into groups sworn to destroy every bit of Israel and its Jews.

mnottertail -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 9:29:30 AM)
Well, Iran is not developing nuclear weapons, and won't be doing it for some time, their enrichment program is at 20% purity, more than necessary for nuke plants but at around medical use, and vastly below weapons grade............so, the issue of kibbutzes generally won't increase their refinement.

SoftBonds -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 9:34:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds I think he means Israel has not officially endorsed building in new areas, expanding existing areas and tacitly letting folks build in new areas without official state support, moving more people into the existing areas, etc. doesn't count doncha know? Softbonds, don't do me the discourtesy of telling others what I really mean. You raised the issue (not sure if it was directly at myself), which isn't really that relevant to the topic, seemingly as if it places blame on Israel for Iran developing nuclear weapons. The whole issue of settlements preventing the peace process or leading to Iran's nuclear programme doesn't convince. In 1947 the Arab League announced the intent to commit a mass genocide if any Jewish state was established. The Arabs also rejected a tiny Jewish state in UN181. Within hours of Israel declaring its independence in 1948 eight Arab states began an invasion. Again they made a play in attempting to destroy Israel in 1967 with Nasser repeatedly threatening publicly a mass genocide of the Jewish populace. Israel offered to give back almost all the territory after the Six Day War in 1967 but the Arab League at Khartoum issued the "Three No's". Egypt was ejected from the Arab League when it made peace with Israel (with the return of the Sinai), and its leader assassinated. People can spin this anyway they want but in truth this is fundamentally a religious conflict rather than about Palestinians. Israel is in the heart of Dar al Islam. Thats the reason so many Muslims all over the world can't abide its existence, and neither can a theocratic state that funnels hundreds of millions into groups sworn to destroy every bit of Israel and its Jews. OK, so are you saying Israel isn't expanding settlements, or that they are? You complain that I am telling others what you mean, so pick one. Either Israel is not allowing new people and new construction in land that doesn't belong to them, or they are, which is it? BTW, claiming land gained by military conquest is against international law... meaning if Israel doesn't intend to give every acre back to the folks who originally lived there, they are a criminal state. Do you dispute that?

Anaxagoras -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 9:39:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well, Iran is not developing nuclear weapons, and won't be doing it for some time, their enrichment program is at 20% purity, more than necessary for nuke plants but at around medical use, and vastly below weapons grade............so, the issue of kibbutzes generally won't increase their refinement. Its been said a lot that once enrichment reaches 20% its a critical point where further enrichment is a relatively fast process - some experts say as little as six months http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8510451.stm

Anaxagoras -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 9:49:18 AM)
Dude I don't want to get into a long debate on this issue because others have a tendency to treat me as CM's Mark Regev and it ends up in a huge number of pages of tit for tat which gets nowhere since people will believe what they choose to believe no matter what. You asked a complex question so I'll just answer briefly as possible and leave it at that. quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds OK, so are you saying Israel isn't expanding settlements, or that they are? You complain that I am telling others what you mean, so pick one. Either Israel is not allowing new people and new construction in land that doesn't belong to them, or they are, which is it? Its not a simple either or question. The settlements are governed by the same laws as the rest of Israel, and all Israeli citizens have the same rights of access throughout the territory. Housing is extremely expensive in Israel which may explain the popularity of settlements too. The state does not build houses and apartments in settlements. Its private construction companies. We do know that Israel hasn't authorised a new settlement since 1994, and has completely destroyed a lot of settler outposts. We also know Israel controls a lot of territory in the West Bank (Area C - as agreed to under Oslo II with Arafat) that it does not permit settlements on. It only allows construction on a small percentage of that land so thats why I suggest the issue isn't as black and white as some make it out to be. quote: BTW, claiming land gained by military conquest is against international law... meaning if Israel doesn't intend to give every acre back to the folks who originally lived there, they are a criminal state. Do you dispute that? Firstly the land was taken in a defensive way which an occupying force is legally entitled to administer until a peace settlement. Secondly, the territory doesn't strictly belong to any nation. It passed from the hands of the Ottoman Empire to the British Mandate who were entrusted by the League of Nations to reconstruct the Jewish homeland. Jordan invaded, claimed it as their own, killed or expelled all the Jewish residents of East Jerusalem and the West Bank whilst banning Jews from even temporary access to their holy sites which they destroyed/desecratated. Christians were not treated a good deal better. There were roughly 30,000 Christians living in Jerusalem in 1948 which went down by to a third by the time Israel took the territory in 1967. Article 6 (if I recall correctly but it can easily be found online) of the Mandate permits close Jewish settlement on the entire territory but without displacing prior habitation. Article 80 of the UN Charter respects prior agreements by the League. Thus it would seem Jewish settlers have the same right to live there as the Palestinians but note that any Palestinian state will be Judenrein whilst the Palestinians expect Israel to accept the "right of return" applied oddly to the ancestors of refugees.

mnottertail -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 9:59:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well, Iran is not developing nuclear weapons, and won't be doing it for some time, their enrichment program is at 20% purity, more than necessary for nuke plants but at around medical use, and vastly below weapons grade............so, the issue of kibbutzes generally won't increase their refinement. Its been said a lot that once enrichment reaches 20% its a critical point where further enrichment is a relatively fast process - some experts say as little as six months http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8510451.stm Yeah, woulda coulda shoulda, they could make dirty bombs right now with 20%.... 70% of the work is accomplished when they went from 3.5 to 20. I don't see the sky falling, they don't currently possess the tech to do it, and they are closely monitored..... Do you realize that if you eat mashed potatoes with a fork, you could stab yourself in the tonsils and bleed to death? 'bout 1/64th the level of risk we are dealing with here, and we will have early warning should they do anything.......... I say there is a shitload more challenges we face than that.

Kirata -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 10:14:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras Israel hasn't built any new settlements since 1994 around the time of Oslo II... quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras Many new construction projects are mostly quite small... Nice dance step. K.

Anaxagoras -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 10:19:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras Israel hasn't built any new settlements since 1994 around the time of Oslo II... See the WSJ map I linked to on page one of the thread. If you have a better source feel free to provide it. quote: quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras Many new construction projects are mostly quite small... Nice dance step. Remember the intermittent outrage over several years with regard to 300 apartments in "Arab" East Jerusalem? That a big amount for an area of over half a million residents?

Kirata -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 11:42:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras See the WSJ map I linked to on page one of the thread. If you have a better source feel free to provide it. I saw it, and I did. Odd that you should have forgotten already. [:)] K.

tweakabelle -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/26/2012 5:19:25 PM)
This week, Israel announced that it was changing the status of three illegal " (under Israeli law) settlements to "legal". So the number of settlements or more accurately colonies has increased this week. (Source: http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17824007 ) Those of us who follow Middle East news know that new expansions to existing settlements are announced on a virtually daily basis. Existing settlements also enlarge themselves by simply taking over adjoining land, usually without asking or agreeing compensation with its owners ie by theft, or by ethnically cleansing the area of its Palestinian residents, . The main goal of the settlers/colonists, they tell us, is to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian State. So from their perspective it has been a successful strategy. All settlements are illegal under international law. All Govts in the world (including even the supinely pro-Zionist US Govt) agree on this. The existence of the settlements/colonies is a war crime and the sticking point that has caused the breakdown of the 'peace process'. Israeli policy only makes sense if one agrees that its main goal is to complete the theft of the entire West bank

tweakabelle -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/28/2012 9:43:33 AM)
Ex-Shin Bet Chief Yuval Diskin launched an astonishing attack on Netanyahu and Barak's Iran policies today, joining another ex Mossad chief Dragan and IDF Chief Ganz in trenchant criticism of Israel's aggressive posture towards Iran. Diskin accused Netanyahu and Barak of "misleading" Israelis over Iran and stated that a military attack would make a nuclear armed Iran more and not less likely. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/28/israeli-spy-chief-warns-netanyahu-barak Increasing signs of differences on Iran between the Israeli military establishment and the US on one hand, and the increasingly isolated Natanyahu and Barak on the other have emerged recently. Both the US and the military people have made it clear that they don't believe Iran is planning nuclear weapons. Implicitly this means that Netanyahu's constant claims of Iranian nuclearisation are false, or to put that more bluntly lies. Those who have called for military action against Iran here now need to explain why they were naive enough to swallow Netanyahu's lies and advocate unnecessary military action against an Islamic State based on more lies about WMDs.

SternSkipper -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/28/2012 9:56:08 AM)
quote: We must not have read the same article...he said nothing like what your header says and implies...You are so prejudiced you are putting words in the mouths of the Israelis even when the article you link to clearly says otherwise. I wish I could the CSPAN Press conference given by the fellow from the Netherlands than heads the international inspection team. He made it dead certain that they ARE producing yellow cake nearly sufficient to make a bomb and that even if they weren't intent on doing so, the amount produced already is many times the amount needed for energy production research for decades and that in itself is highly suspicious.

tweakabelle -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/28/2012 10:36:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper I wish I could the CSPAN Press conference given by the fellow from the Netherlands than heads the international inspection team. He made it dead certain that they ARE producing yellow cake nearly sufficient to make a bomb and that even if they weren't intent on doing so, the amount produced already is many times the amount needed for energy production research for decades and that in itself is highly suspicious. So all the US intelligence agencies, the US Defence Secretary, the ex- chiefs of Mossad and Shin Bet, the current head of the IDF are wrong and you are right....? Netanyahu's own military establishment - the people who do the dying for his messianic dreams - are rebelling and undermining him. That's practically unprecedented. And still you don't get it do you? Netanyahu has played you for a sucker while trying to manipulate your country into a wholly unnecessary war for his own ends, humiliating your President more than once in the process. Not the first time your so-called ally has played the USA for a sucker nor in all likelihood will it be the last. It's really time you learnt the lesson and took another look at what your alliance with one of the world's most loathed States brings you. The rest of the world has figured out what this current Israeli Govt is about - it's about time the US did too. Doing that could bring peace to the region.

SternSkipper -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/28/2012 10:46:41 AM)
quote: So all the US intelligence agencies, the US Defence Secretary, the ex- chiefs of Mossad and Shin Bet, the current head of the IDF are wrong and you are right....? WTF are you even talking about? You come up some Algebullshit article citing a misinterpretation of what one retired guy said, and you get some magic can of worms you can open? Gimme a break... quit wasting all our time and post something cogent for a change.

SternSkipper -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/28/2012 11:00:08 AM)
quote: Netanyahu has played you for a sucker Not nearly as badly as a bunch of misogynistic men (If you can call em that) who like lopping off women's private parts "for their own good" have played you for an informational doormat. Listen carefully to one of the best scientist/nuclear strategy experts on earth says: http://www.c-spanarchives.org/program/Olli

Anaxagoras -> RE: "No Iranian Nuke" IDF Chief confirms (4/28/2012 11:27:06 AM)
Other publications picked up on Haaretz's misrepresentation on Gantz's views as well: http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/04/26/haaretz-new-york-times-play-telephone-with-idf-benny-gantz-iran-netanyahu/ and http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=35&x_article=2228 Gantz actually said in the Haaretz interview "It will happen if Khamenei judges that he is invulnerable to a response." - thus he actually believes Iran will build a nuclear bomb depending on how secure it can make its installations. Its extremely telling when publications like Haaretz intentionally lie (its difficult to believe it could be some sort of misunderstanding) about the message of an interviewee in their very own interview. It was enough for other well known publications to adopt the very same message.

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875