RE: Punishment/Reward and You

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RE: Punishment/Reward and You - 5/13/2012 11:05:43 AM

kalthus

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Joined: 4/17/2012
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quote:

It's such a broad generalization that it's true but non-useful.

Well - someone once said 'I don't know who discovered water, but I'll bet you it wasn't a fish!

All I'm suggesting is that when a Dom and Sub organise their play around reward and punishment, it's just a more extreme version of what we all do anyway!'

(in reply to JeffBC)

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RE: Punishment/Reward and You - 5/13/2012 11:53:38 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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quote:

Honestly, what kinds of things are we asking here, that we need to keep track of things? Ishe going to serve me eggplant when he knows I hate it?

Well for example, in our relationship, I'm not allowed any caffeine at all in anything at all and I have a set bedtime because I'm a severe insomniac and he's trying to find ways to help me sleep better because it's playing havoc these days with my health.

But I love caffeine and yeah, sometimes I slip because it's an addiction for me. And while it hasn't happened yet, if I was to miss my bedtime or if I was to stay online or watch tv or whatever when I knew I should be in the bed, he'd punish me.

I want to obey. I do everything I can to obey but there are times when I don't mean to disobey but those habits are hard for me to break. They don't just happen all of a sudden. They are extremely hard work for me. There are days I beg and beg for caffeine and he says no. There are nights I want to stay up late because I'm just not tired at all. He says no.

He's also trying to break me of screaming all the time when he's sadistic with me. He wants me to mind my breathing, concentrate, focus, be "one" with the pain. Again, that's no always easy. It fucking hurts! So I get punished for not obeying when I should be focusing and centering.

Obeying isn't always so easy no matter how much I want to obey. So he punishes me until I finally decide that the punishment is worse than the crime. You learn to associate the punishment with the object of desire that you disobeyed for.

Anyway, that's how it works for us.

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RE: Punishment/Reward and You - 5/13/2012 11:59:47 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
In addition, if you ask most people who are in relationships that have lasted, you'll discover that punishment may have been used in the beginning but was discarded early on.

*chuckles* Yeah, for me that "early on" was the very first time I punished her. One go around that block was enough to convince me that was no way to get to "happily ever after". Basically, the need for punishment already puts Carol and I so far "not on the same page" that we don't want to get there.

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RE: Punishment/Reward and You - 5/14/2012 8:57:45 PM

SnMblue

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Joined: 5/12/2012
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Honestly, as a naturally submissive person who has just begun to unravel the mysteries of this lifestyle, I enjoy the pain. It hurts, sometimes, but I love it all the time. Master has always treated me with respect since I have known him, and I trust him with everything or I wouldn't be here. I guess I have felt that I should be punished and that is why he does it, because it is what I feel I need. I need a guide, an upper hand, so to speak. I have always had and issue with motivation to do anything. When I have a list, an order, a command, etc and the longing to obey, I feel far more compelled to do something, anything. He gives me that, and I know that there are consequences besides normal everyday things. For example, I have always hated an unkempt house. I now have a chart and if I fail to finish things in the allotted time, I receive punishment, part of that being that I disappointed Master. This helps me do what I have always wanted, added the motivation I needed, and got the result I was always looking for, while having a sexual element as well. His pleasure, in the bedroom and out, is what I wish to accomplish in serving. That pushes me to be a better person because that is what we both want.

I am writing because he asked me to and because I have a hard time saying exactly what I feel. I do better with a pen and paper (or keyboard and computer screen). He wants to know how to help me more and I am ecstatic to oblige. I am a psychology major in college and understand how the reinforcements/punishments, whether positive or negative, works.

Some of my most intense and satisfying orgasms have come after a punishment. It is like I crave discipline and need it when I have done wrong in order to please Master as well as myself.

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RE: Punishment/Reward and You - 5/15/2012 10:52:59 AM

JeffBC

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Not at all arguing with you hear SnMblue... this is more me exploring how the things you wrote are both the same and different for Carol and I. As always, I strongly suspect a large part of the differences can be accounted for by the fact of our long-standing marriage before the collar and the lack of SM in our relationship. The punishment thing in particular I think is highly related to the long-term and happy marriage. We were already too used to being too close to be comfortable with a situation where we were that far apart. If I needed to punish her, then already she and I would have totally failed to be on the same page and we dislike that a lot. I'm sure it would've been different had the collaring come early in our relationship when we still had a lot of adapting to each other to do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SnMblue
Honestly, as a naturally submissive person who has just begun to unravel the mysteries of this lifestyle, I enjoy the pain. It hurts, sometimes, but I love it all the time.

For us, that is two separate concepts. I would urge you to consider the phrase "naturally submissive". I used to use that phrase also until I realized that whatever anyone was doing it was "natural" to them. So between us, I think of Carol has having a default preference to deference (her wording, not mine LOL). That has nothing to do with masochism... the enjoyment of pain... which she only has a tiny bit of and I have similarly small amounts of sadism in me. Those two features shape the difference in our views on punishment I suspect. For Carol, she does not need any additional motivation to defer. In fact, she needs to be motivated to NOT defer. That's what it means when I say her default is to submit. It takes positive energy somehow to make that default not occur -- either the command itself is extremely distasteful to her or else the person giving the command is. In most other situations, she would defer even to total strangers.

quote:

and I know that there are consequences besides normal everyday things.

Carol and I experience a similar dynamic. It is absolutely true that our M/s dynamic has forced both of us to excel because of the threat of "consequences". It's just for us the consequences are not a spanking. The consequence is that disobedience messes with the happy wa of our household. The absoluteness of the collar (obey or be released) places plenty of "consequence" all by itself. Like you, we have positive and negative feedback... it's just there a bit more subtle than "good girl" and "spanking". But they definitely exist and strongly motivate our dynamic & marriage.

quote:

Some of my most intense and satisfying orgasms have come after a punishment. It is like I crave discipline and need it when I have done wrong in order to please Master as well as myself.

Carol craved "discipline" also. But she meant something different by that word. Using her own fumbling word descriptions... she wanted to experience the man's world of "do or die"... "stand and deliver"... "be strong"... "suck it up"... "push yourself". She most closely thought of it as SEAL training. She wanted to experience what it meant to try to measure up to a ridiculously high bar. But the discipline part is not external discipline. For her it was all about internal discipline. To use the SEAL metaphor some more, she wanted to go stand in the freezing cold water for 24 hours not because she'd be punished for failing to do so but because she would FAIL if she failed to do so.

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Punishment/Reward and You - 5/16/2012 5:03:43 AM

Kana

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I don't do punishment...but I do believe (absolutely) in accountability.

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Post #: 26