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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 3:14:14 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		While in college I had a course on "The Unions". The school I was attending was more conservative than liberal (which is to say most students went for a 4 year degree, but not learn much in the process). The professor for the course had been both a manager and union leader in his thirty years of working life. He decided to have everyone place on a piece of paper whom they side with during a 'Management vs Union' problem.

Nineteen students said "Management", one said "I dont know" and myself "Depends on the situation and arguements". During that course I had a fairly easy time as I could look at both sides and determine whom had the better arguement(s). Sometimes both sides had good arguements and others, neither side had a decent arguement. Most of the students had a hard time relating to The Unions mostly due to their upbringing and parent's working careers (white collar workers). The neat thing about the course was the dynamics involved on both sides and how the adults work out the problems, issues, log jams, while the 'children' did all the cusing, swearing and beatings. In most situations, collective bargaining was used to keep the workplace stable and working while discussions and impasses were worked on towards a mutal compromise. If one or both sides did not wish to comprise until the other did, the problems generally got worst for the company as a whole. The wisdom is to deal with the problems early, like adults, and be reasonable towards the other side.

I've seen (through the SBA) businesses in which the management had tried its best to accomidate situations and problems while the union dragged its feet overy petty crap. And I've seen instances in which unions had some really honest arguements that management simply didnt wish to hear (like calling the newly reigned in CEO a moron for creating more regulations than needed). Some of these issues are really 'open and shut' cases, and others are simply an epic puzzle to solve. The biggest problems seem to stem from individuals that take a 'zero sum' approach to the dicussion. They feel the whole thing is like a football game and one side HAS to lose for the other side to win. And that generally creates more serious problems for the company's future.

Side Note: I was the only one in that course to earn a 4.0! My nearest competitor in the class got a 3.2. Most of them had a rough time wrapping their heads around the union's arguements (realistically or not). For me it was a fairly easy course.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 3:31:38 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Unions have never done no wrong!


No no more than any republican in power anyway.


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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 3:34:45 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

No union is famous for being deeply associated (dare we say controlled) by the Mob.


http://bud-meyers.blogspot.com/2012/03/republican-ties-th-chinese-mafia.html



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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 3:38:46 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

No union, or union members have ever been indicted for a criminal conspiracy.


To quote Gil Scot Heron - "Haldeman, Erlichman, Mitchell, and Dean It follows a pattern if you see what I mean."
From the H2O G A T E Blues

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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 3:47:14 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

No union has ever made excessive demands that caused the bankruptcy of a company, or an industry, thereby sending jobs elsewhere.


If you can't compete in the market, don't go into business.

Anti-unionists always want rules done away with. too bad their business models are that weak

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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 4:11:09 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Hey, Stern ... I thought I was posting on your side!

Firm

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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 4:43:56 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Hey, Stern ... I thought I was posting on your side!


Surrrrrrre you did ,,, your eyes are brown BTW.

Calm down and enjoy the fun then




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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 4:50:03 PM   
Musicmystery


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< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 5/31/2012 4:51:12 PM >

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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 4:55:58 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Are you claiming there aren't any unions in the Netherlands?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_unions_in_the_Netherlands



Did you read non union in ANYTHING I posted in this thread? Didn't think so, it's obvious that European unions are much better negotiators than the US ones... Now where's my free shit?


Yes, I did read something non union in what you wrote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
See, we could have shorter hours, and more vacation time if it wasn't for unions!



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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 4:58:45 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

AFSCME, Wisconsins largest state employee union has lost 34,000 members since March of 2011


Thanks to the Governor that is now being recalled

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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 5:03:35 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yes, I did read something non union in what you wrote:



So in Myopia where you reside, comparing unions is a negative thing?

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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 5:17:42 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yes, I did read something non union in what you wrote:



So in Myopia where you reside, comparing unions is a negative thing?

You weren't comparing unions. You specifically claimed things would be better without unions:
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
See, we could have shorter hours, and more vacation time if it wasn't for unions!




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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 6:23:00 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		And the point with your chart, MM?

Are you attempting to claim that when the evil Reagan busted PATCO, that it immediately caused a nationwide downturn in wages?

And/or that there is a direct correlation between the strength of unions, and the rise of wages across the entire economy?

What is your point, and the source of your data?


Firm

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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 6:24:06 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

AFSCME, Wisconsins largest state employee union has lost 34,000 members since March of 2011


Thanks to the Governor that is now being recalled


And, who it appears, is well on his way to being "re-elected" in his office.

Firm

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RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 6:34:01 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		He is leading in the polls 52% to 45%. We will find out on June 5th if he has the support of a majority of Wisconsin voters. He will keep his job.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 6:48:51 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:



So in Myopia where you reside, comparing unions is a negative thing?


Is that anywhere near where you live in Rectolia?


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 6:51:25 PM   
SternSkipper


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Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

And, who it appears, is well on his way to being "re-elected" in his office.


The Republican FACING RECALL you mean?

If he's so popular why is he up for a recall vote?


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 7:03:16 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

And the point with your chart, MM?

Are you attempting to claim that when the evil Reagan busted PATCO, that it immediately caused a nationwide downturn in wages?

And/or that there is a direct correlation between the strength of unions, and the rise of wages across the entire economy?

What is your point, and the source of your data?


Firm

You know, Firm, whatever is going on in your life lately, address it and chill.

I'm not shy about criticizing Reagan. When I'm doing that specifically, you'll know, without guesswork.

Yes, with the decline of unions, wages no longer kept pace with productivity. Yes, since you brought it up, the gap between rich and poor widened, with the middle class remaining stagnant.

You know how to read a graph, and nothing there is new or controversial.


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 7:55:14 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:



So in Myopia where you reside, comparing unions is a negative thing?


Is that anywhere near where you live in Rectolia?



Rectolla is your neck of the woods, Stern. You're the guy who likes to skipper them from the rear.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: "Unions are destroying the U. S. A.!!!" - 5/31/2012 8:21:40 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Unions have never done no wrong!

No union is famous for being deeply associated (dare we say controlled) by the Mob.

No union, or union members have ever been indicted for a criminal conspiracy.

No union member has ever been known to intimidate a non-union member (hell, even other union-members), much less kill them.

No union forces you to join, and requires by law that you pay its membership fees, that the union leadership can use politically in pretty much any manner they want.

No union has ever made excessive demands that caused the bankruptcy of a company, or an industry, thereby sending jobs elsewhere.

No union forces you to join them, in order to even have a job.

Yup. Unions. Pretty much heaven-made.

Firm



wow just like a State!

They'd fit right in!

~Gubafion

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