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Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 6:00:58 AM

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Bush's economy is getting worse.

Initial Claims Miss Big, People Falling Off Extended Claims Soar To 135K, CPI Plunges Most Since December 2008

I'm curious as to just how President Obama is going to clean up Bush's mess.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 6:13:59 AM

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Um, isn't the CPI a measure of inflation? Why did Tyler Durden paint a drop in the CPI as a bad thing?

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RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 6:18:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Um, isn't the CPI a measure of inflation? Why did Tyler Durden paint a drop in the CPI as a bad thing?

It's not in and of itself. It's overall a good thing, from a non-Keynesian (non-Krugman) point of view. But there is an underlying warning. We'll see if the next round of QE is forthcoming to combat the deflation. That's what the lowering of the CPI indicator portends: not a good thing.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 6/14/2012 6:20:47 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 7:24:09 AM

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So what would McCain have done to fix our economy?

He said he would have let GM fold and wouldn`t have done a stimulus to help us out of our free-fall.....when we were losing 100,000 jobs a month.

Would have McCain waved his hand over America and prayed real hard w/ Sarah?

Please be specific and have some examples.

No is happy about the economy but they sure as hell don`t trust Mitt with it.

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RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 8:57:48 AM

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quote:

We'll see if the next round of QE is forthcoming to combat the deflation.

QE would do the opposite. When it's time to battle deflation, interest rates can easily rise from 0.25%.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 9:04:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

We'll see if the next round of QE is forthcoming to combat the deflation.

QE would do the opposite. When it's time to battle deflation, interest rates can easily rise from 0.25%.

Right. QE attempts the opposite. The BERNANKE would wish for FED target of ~3% inflation. That's what he's stated is the mandate of the FED.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 9:06:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
So what would McCain have done to fix our economy?

Please be specific and have some examples.

My crystal ball doesn't work. I'll leave such to you and yours.

Please be specific.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 1:41:18 PM

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"Americans say Bush still more to blame than Obama for economy"

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/americans-bush-still-more-blame-obama-economy-143913248.html

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 2:26:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"Americans say Bush still more to blame than Obama for economy"

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/americans-bush-still-more-blame-obama-economy-143913248.html

And now the rest of the story...

quote:

What one might call the blame gap has narrowed considerably: When Gallup first asked Americans in July 2009 whom they blamed for the poor economy, 80 percent laid a great deal or a moderate amount of blame on Bush, and only 32 percent blamed Obama. The current numbers show 68 percent of the public blames the former president while 52 percent say Obama deserves the blame. (The numbers total more than 100 percent because the question was not "which one do you blame more," but how much blame each president deserves individually.)

The Democratic president has crisscrossed the country in recent months pleading for patience from voters still struggling in the anemic recovery and grappling with stubbornly high unemployment above 8 percent. In his speeches, Obama makes a point of blaming Bush and Republicans in general for the 2007-2008 meltdown and warns that Mitt Romney's economic program resembles the Bush approach "on steroids."

Among independents, who often play a role in deciding elections, 51 percent assign Obama a great deal or a moderate amount of blame, while 47 percent say he deserves not much or no blame at all. Meanwhile, 67 percent of independents say Bush bears a great deal or a moderate amount of the fault. Only 32 percent exonerate him in whole or in part. The survey, conducted June 7-10, includes one eye-popping statistic: While 83 percent of Republicans say Obama deserves a great deal or moderate amount of blame, 49 percent of them believe Bush deserves the same. Democrats are more likely to exonerate Obama. Eight in 10 say he deserves not much or none of the blame, while 9 in 10 say Bush deserves a great deal or a moderate amount. The poll had an error margin of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

Keep grasping at those straws Owner, it's quite amusing.... Can't wait for your melt down in November

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RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 2:35:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Bush's economy is getting worse.

Initial Claims Miss Big, People Falling Off Extended Claims Soar To 135K, CPI Plunges Most Since December 2008

I'm curious as to just how President Obama is going to clean up Bush's mess.

I always find it amusing how conservatives slam the President over petty things every hour on the hour, but write 'blank checks' of responsibility and accountibility to the folks they keep voting into office! Since from 2010 going forward, REPUBLICANS, have had an even bigger say in goverment, than back in 2008. And they have done EVERYTHING they can to undermine the recovery efforts, including stalling out last August on the budget which led to the nation's credit rating dropping for AAA to AA. And where were all the conservatives, bitching at Republicans over failing to compromise with Democrats over the budget? I dont know, the silence was to defeaning to hear over...

I'm with Owner59 in asking, what Republicans would have done back in 2008 when the whole economy was sinking down to the abyss known as an 'economic Depression', and on a scale that would have easily dwarfed the last one in the 1930's? In detail and exact terms. Anything less shows you to be hypocrits.

Since conservatives were against the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, than it would be assumed they would no NOTHING to help the economy from sinking. And how many conservatives ACTUALLY READ THE BILL before voting against it? Not to many. In fact, only about 8% of Americans (in total) read that bill. The other 92% where told what to think. I read the bill, did you?

So yes, Republicans are just as at fault as Democrats (more so in my opinion). However, the conservative voters, being the mindless sheep they typically are on any subject, will go with the fantasy rather than the reality. Cus reality implies 'thinking for yourself', and most conservatives have problems with facts and evidence that shows they keep backing morons to federal office that often display 6th grader like maturities and abilities.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 3:04:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
"Americans say Bush still more to blame than Obama for economy"

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/americans-bush-still-more-blame-obama-economy-143913248.html

And now the rest of the story...

quote:

What one might call the blame gap has narrowed considerably: When Gallup first asked Americans in July 2009 whom they blamed for the poor economy, 80 percent laid a great deal or a moderate amount of blame on Bush, and only 32 percent blamed Obama. The current numbers show 68 percent of the public blames the former president while 52 percent say Obama deserves the blame. (The numbers total more than 100 percent because the question was not "which one do you blame more," but how much blame each president deserves individually.)

Yes, the knowledge of 'clerical errors' happens more often with writers and editors than most people think. The numbers seem a bit....off. So, we'll just change that '52' to '22', since both digits are pretty close together (on most American style keyboards) and accessible by one of four fingers (most homo sapiens have four fingers on each hand). But lets not have facts and evidence get in the way of subrob's point.....right? After all, could it be possible this was a clerical error and NOT some evil, dark, commie, mutant, socialistic, liberal, tree-hugging, anti-capitalistic conspiracy?

And why did I switch the '52' and not the '68'? It comes from a 'liberal media source', duh! If this came from a conservative media source, it would be 0.000000000000000000000000001% blame Bush while all the rest of humanity (past, present, and future) feel its Obama's fault. We wouldnt want conservatives to hold their media sources to the same level of accountibility and responsibility (if not twice that) as they bash the liberal media, right? Oh sorry...the 'Liberalis Media'. As apparently, conservatives like the 'state run' media source of FOX News. You know, the 'news' group that publishs Republicans and conservative 'priniciples' in the best possible light, while placing liberals and Democrats it the worst. That 'facts' and 'evidence' are twisted towards the party line and any disenters are brutally removed and silenced. Ironically, its the conservatives that say tyrants and dictators get a foothold on society when people start listening to lies rather than the truth and fact of a story.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
The Democratic president has crisscrossed the country in recent months pleading for patience from voters still struggling in the anemic recovery and grappling with stubbornly high unemployment above 8 percent. In his speeches, Obama makes a point of blaming Bush and Republicans in general for the 2007-2008 meltdown and warns that Mitt Romney's economic program resembles the Bush approach "on steroids."

If your going to blame Democrats and the President without evidence or facts, its 'ok' for them to do the same back at the Republicans. So far, this administration has been exceptionally better with truth, facts and evidence than the last one. I seem to recall the last one got a few thousand of our soldiers killed and injured going to war over WMDs that never existed. And was happy to spend $4 trillion borrowed dollars on it. And the Mitt Romney plan (so far) is really....bad.....for the economy. I'm assuming its a first draft and will under go sigificant changes and a bit of polishing before releasing it again. Have you read the Romney plan?

(in reply to subrob1967)

RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 3:07:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

I'm with Owner59 in asking, what Republicans would have done back in 2008 when the whole economy was sinking down to the abyss known as an 'economic Depression', and on a scale that would have easily dwarfed the last one in the 1930's? In detail and exact terms.

Who the **** knows? You got a functioning crystal ball? Obama won, not a republican. If I had my way, Paul would have been elected. But he wasn't.

quote:

Anything less shows you to be hypocrits.

Anything more would show you to have an IQ.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to joether)

RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 3:34:19 PM

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I dont know how obama could clean it up, it was a republican congress that did the borrowing for the last war they aint paid off yet and they are borrowing more without paying it, and at some point that interest will eat us alive.

I suppose he could try an executive order to jail congress and raise taxes, Lincoln kinda did that.

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RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 3:44:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I'm with Owner59 in asking, what Republicans would have done back in 2008 when the whole economy was sinking down to the abyss known as an 'economic Depression', and on a scale that would have easily dwarfed the last one in the 1930's? In detail and exact terms.

Who the **** knows? You got a functioning crystal ball? Obama won, not a republican. If I had my way, Paul would have been elected. But he wasn't.

That's your answer? You dont know? Sorry, that's not even remotely a good enough answer! If your going to bash the Democrats for how they handle things, than implies YOU HAVE A BETTER IDEA. In this case, a SET OF IDEAS. So lets hear 'em......

The Obama administration didnt have a crystal ball, nor a time machine built by some crazy professor who hit his head on the bathroom sink one morning. They had to understand the problems and how to solve them quickly an as best as they could, while thing kept spiralling out of control everyday. Yeah, they screwed up here and there. Add to it, that Republicans were doing anything and everything to undermine efforts, didn't exactly make things easier.

And since, Rep. Ron Paul was not elected as president, THAT, gives you the right to behave like a 6th grader both emotionally and academically?

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 4:03:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I'm with Owner59 in asking, what Republicans would have done back in 2008 when the whole economy was sinking down to the abyss known as an 'economic Depression', and on a scale that would have easily dwarfed the last one in the 1930's? In detail and exact terms.

Who the **** knows? You got a functioning crystal ball? Obama won, not a republican. If I had my way, Paul would have been elected. But he wasn't.

That's your answer? You dont know? Sorry, that's not even remotely a good enough answer!

HOW THE FUCK COULD I KNOW WHAT REPUBLICANS WOULD DO WHICH THEY NEVER DID? ARE YOU INSANE?

I ignore the rest of your comment for one simple reason. You don't deserve response.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to joether)

RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 5:27:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Um, isn't the CPI a measure of inflation? Why did Tyler Durden paint a drop in the CPI as a bad thing?

Gawdammit DS....quit using facts to confuse people!

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 5:51:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
"Americans say Bush still more to blame than Obama for economy"

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/americans-bush-still-more-blame-obama-economy-143913248.html

And now the rest of the story...

quote:

What one might call the blame gap has narrowed considerably: When Gallup first asked Americans in July 2009 whom they blamed for the poor economy, 80 percent laid a great deal or a moderate amount of blame on Bush, and only 32 percent blamed Obama. The current numbers show 68 percent of the public blames the former president while 52 percent say Obama deserves the blame. (The numbers total more than 100 percent because the question was not "which one do you blame more," but how much blame each president deserves individually.)

Yes, the knowledge of 'clerical errors' happens more often with writers and editors than most people think. The numbers seem a bit....off. So, we'll just change that '52' to '22', since both digits are pretty close together (on most American style keyboards) and accessible by one of four fingers (most homo sapiens have four fingers on each hand). But lets not have facts and evidence get in the way of subrob's point.....right? After all, could it be possible this was a clerical error and NOT some evil, dark, commie, mutant, socialistic, liberal, tree-hugging, anti-capitalistic conspiracy?

And why did I switch the '52' and not the '68'? It comes from a 'liberal media source', duh! If this came from a conservative media source, it would be 0.000000000000000000000000001% blame Bush while all the rest of humanity (past, present, and future) feel its Obama's fault. We wouldnt want conservatives to hold their media sources to the same level of accountibility and responsibility (if not twice that) as they bash the liberal media, right? Oh sorry...the 'Liberalis Media'. As apparently, conservatives like the 'state run' media source of FOX News. You know, the 'news' group that publishs Republicans and conservative 'priniciples' in the best possible light, while placing liberals and Democrats it the worst. That 'facts' and 'evidence' are twisted towards the party line and any disenters are brutally removed and silenced. Ironically, its the conservatives that say tyrants and dictators get a foothold on society when people start listening to lies rather than the truth and fact of a story.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
The Democratic president has crisscrossed the country in recent months pleading for patience from voters still struggling in the anemic recovery and grappling with stubbornly high unemployment above 8 percent. In his speeches, Obama makes a point of blaming Bush and Republicans in general for the 2007-2008 meltdown and warns that Mitt Romney's economic program resembles the Bush approach "on steroids."

If your going to blame Democrats and the President without evidence or facts, its 'ok' for them to do the same back at the Republicans. So far, this administration has been exceptionally better with truth, facts and evidence than the last one. I seem to recall the last one got a few thousand of our soldiers killed and injured going to war over WMDs that never existed. And was happy to spend $4 trillion borrowed dollars on it. And the Mitt Romney plan (so far) is really....bad.....for the economy. I'm assuming its a first draft and will under go sigificant changes and a bit of polishing before releasing it again. Have you read the Romney plan?

I report, you decide Joe... I just quoted Owner's link, so sue me.

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RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 6:52:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I'm with Owner59 in asking, what Republicans would have done back in 2008 when the whole economy was sinking down to the abyss known as an 'economic Depression', and on a scale that would have easily dwarfed the last one in the 1930's? In detail and exact terms.

Who the **** knows? You got a functioning crystal ball? Obama won, not a republican. If I had my way, Paul would have been elected. But he wasn't.

That's your answer? You dont know? Sorry, that's not even remotely a good enough answer!

HOW THE FUCK COULD I KNOW WHAT REPUBLICANS WOULD DO WHICH THEY NEVER DID? ARE YOU INSANE?

I ignore the rest of your comment for one simple reason. You don't deserve response.

The reason why you dont know is not because of the limited information out there. There are a number of reasons (none of them more important than the others). Some Republicans privately liked the Democrat's plan but could never speak of it publically. Some Republicans really had no clue what to do, but since the Democrats had one, its better than nothing. Some Republicans actually added to the bill, off the record, to help and hinder the final version. And some, without clue or concept didnt know what to do until the leadership within the GOP told them how to vote. After it was voted on, Republicans, took the goverment money secretly while publically bashing the Democrats "...and their stimulus bill"! And were where all the conservatives, who voted in these Republicans when this was happening? They certainly didnt do a dime of holding their own elected officals to the same level of accountibility and responsibility as they were bashing the Democrats. Texas took its share of the funds to offset their budget both years, while claiming the recession had not effected their budget (can you say "total Bull Droppings"?). Cus after all, their budget was run....the Republican way....!

The Republicans were against bailing out GM. The President didnt bail 'em out, but, shockingly invested in the company. But not in direct loans with no strings attached or as common stock; but with preferred shares. What is a preferred stock share? Its the 'blue chip' of stocks. Its noted for its generally good return on investment and protection from bankruptcy. However, unlike common stock, preferred stock has no voting rights on company leadership or plans. So even if GM did go belly-up, the goverment would still get back the grand majority of the investment. It side-stepped the accusation that the president was a socialist by investing as an American should.....into American products and companies! Yeah, FOX News and the like didnt want to show that the president was investing smartly into GM, that would undermind the GOP's attacks. From an investing standpoint, it was a really smart and wise move. The product was a good one, the company is pretty good, and the workers are pretty good. Losing that sort of manufacturing would not only effect the plants under GM, but 'downstream' jobs. Plus, we as Americans made a profit from that bit of investing. That actually helped both lower the decifit and keep taxes from going up (yeah, two more facts FOX News and others conviently 'forgot' to mention).

I dont agree with everything the president did. But I am one of 310 million people, the president is responsible for. He, unlike G. W. Bush took the time and explained (in detail mind you) of what he was doing, and why. After listening to what he was saying and thought about it, it made alot of good sense. Unfortunately, we have a sizable chunk of people in this nation that will not listen to the guy at all. They dont understand how he talks as most of it can not be crunked down to 'sound bites' for the simple minds to understand (without losing the really good material and definations).

You want to know why the question is hard for you to answer (beyond what was just said...)? The GOP really did not have a plan. Things were changing so rapidly and many systems were being blown apart. Conservatives have a habit of looking at one or two problems with the same number of possible solutions. And when those solutions dont work, they just keep doing the samething believing it will work (i.e. Trickle Down Theory, Star Wars Initative, No Child Left Behind, etc). Liberals tend to look at the whole picture, with a good score of ideas on what to do about it. Problem is, they get a bit....excited....and never pick one of several solutions and 'go with it'. That is what the president did. Select a few solutions and put them into play, adjusting as needed. If something wasn't working, it was toss and a quick examine of possible solutions was inserted. Was it a perfect system? Gosh No! But compared to the GOP's plan, it was the best solution at the time.

How is it I could come up with reasonable ideas of what the Republicans might have done, but you couldnt?

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 8:17:18 PM

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No Joe, something is not always better than nothing, especially when you spend 3 trillion dollars, and the problem doesn't go away.

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RE: Bush's economy worsens - 6/14/2012 8:26:25 PM

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quote:

Conservatives have a habit of looking at one or two problems with the same number of possible solutions. And when those solutions dont work, they just keep doing the samething believing it will work

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I learned that early in my mental health recovery and changed my life.

The GOP has been doing the same thing for 30+ years and has learned nothing. Neither have their voters.

(in reply to joether)

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