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RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 2:01:34 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

And I don't suppose one reason the buyer went along
with the recommended vet was because she
couldn't imagine that the Romney's would
associate with people who would try and
sell a drugged up injured horse.
She might have heard they what clean
living Mormons they are.
The horse was injured. The Romney's profited
from it's sale, they settled with the buyer
out of court.
The ethics of selling a injured horse even
with full disclosure is dodgy.
If she was as ignorant about what happened
when the horse left her barn as her apologist
would have her be that still doesn't excuse
her carelessness about the horses fate.
And again if you're old man has a itch to
be president you might want to dot every
i and cross every t. Her thinking was any
quicker than the buyers.
And there's another peek at Willard and
Ann behind closed doors. Neither of them
is especially bright.

One of the houses I bought several years ago was misrepresented to me. I sued both the previous owners and the realtor in the lawsuit. I didnt know if the previous owners were aware of the misrepresentation or not but the way lawsuits are done is you sue everyone you can and let a Judge sort out who is responsible and for how much..

According to this article, Ann Romney was dropped from the lawsuit before it was settled out of court.. That would not have happened if there was any wrongdoing on her part.. And the horse was at a horse farm in CA, Ms Romeny lives in Utah.. so she was an absentee owner located far away and likely not aware what was going on with the horse, the trainer, the vet and the buyer.. And from this article, the buyer trusted the trainer (she kept the horse at the trainers farm) and it wasnt trusting the Romney name that she seemed to rely on, imo..

"In 2010, a San Diego woman sued the trainer, his wife and Mrs. Romney for fraud, claiming that the severity of a foot defect in a horse she bought from Mrs. Romney for $125,000 had been concealed. The case raised questions about whether the Ebelings, who acted as sales agents, intentionally covered up the animal's condition, and if so, whether Mrs. Romney, a largely absentee owner, knew.
Lawyers for Mrs. Romney and the Ebelings argued that the buyer was aware of the defect, a condition disclosed by a veterinarian who conducted a prepurchase exam, and denied any effort to deceive her. They pointed out that she continued to ride the horse, named Super Hit, for more than a year after the purchase in 2008.
Last September, on the eve of a jury trial, Mrs. Romney was dropped from the lawsuit before it was settled out of court, according to the Romney campaign."

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news/us/in-rarefied-sport-a-view-of-the-romneys-world-637804/

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RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 2:02:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Thank you for making my point ken

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

We should all be outraged that gay men haven't forgotten the many friends they lost while Reagan refused to even acknowledge their was a disease killing them.



I doubt you'd feel that way if you had lost loved ones back then.

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RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 2:26:12 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The Romneys declared a loss of $77,000 on their 2010 tax returns for the share in the care and feeding of Rafalca, which Mrs. Romney owns with Mr. Ebeling’s wife, Amy, and a family friend, Beth Meyers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/us/politics/horse-co-owned-by-ann-romney-earns-a-spot-on-the-olympic-dressage-team.html?_r=3&smid=tw-nytimespolitics&seid=auto

A tax write off , almost double the average wage of a USA worker(43k$)

Slate looked into this..

"The Romneys reported $77,731 in "passive losses" related to their investment in Rob Rom Enterprises, but of that their account only deemed $50 to be actually eligible for deduction. The forms don't explain the thinking behind that, but it's probably because losses from your horse corporation can't be used to offset unrelated income. If Rafalca had brought in more money, then Rafalca's care and feeding expenses could be deducted from that income, but in 2010 Rob Rom Enterprises doesn't seem to have had much income."
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/06/19/clarifying_the_record_on_mitt_romney_s_77_000_losses_olympic_horse_rafalca.html

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RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 4:07:33 PM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		Did the Romney's receive money from the sale of the horse?
The injured, drugged horse?

Wrongdoing doesn't always equal criminal liability.

An absentee owner is still a owner and still has
ethical respondsiabilties where a horse is concerned.

She was as aware of what took place during the
transactions as she chose to be.

As I said before selling a horse with an injury
is ethically dodgy even with full disclosure.
Before she agreed to sell the horse she should
have known the physical condition of the horse
not only for ethical reasons but practical one like
not wanting to be sued.
The way this situation was handled by the
Romney's gives the appearance that they
are careless, not very discerning about the
people they go into business with and not
especially bright.




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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 4:21:19 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple
Did the Romney's receive money from the sale of the horse?
The injured, drugged horse?

Wrongdoing doesn't always equal criminal liability.

An absentee owner is still a owner and still has
ethical respondsiabilties where a horse is concerned.

She was as aware of what took place during the
transactions as she chose to be.

As I said before selling a horse with an injury
is ethically dodgy even with full disclosure.
Before she agreed to sell the horse she should
have known the physical condition of the horse
not only for ethical reasons but practical one like
not wanting to be sued.
The way this situation was handled by the
Romney's gives the appearance that they
are careless, not very discerning about the
people they go into business with and not
especially bright.

You have your opinion and I have mine.. I had a friend that died from MS so I have seen how debiltating that disease can be, so imo to expect her suffering from MS to know all about the horse (& others she has part ownership in) at all times since it was bought when she lives on the other side of the country is not reasonable, imo.. And imo her MS affects her much more than what the public sees, so to some she looks "normal" & "healthy" even tho she likely has bad days, perhaps many of them..

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 5:13:57 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The truth is not a smear. AnnRomney was sued over the sale of the horse and settled out of court.

IOW she tried to defraud a potential buyer that a broken down animal was a top competitive dressage horse.


She also counter suit, and the case was dismissed... Didn't you look at the image Lucy posted? Right there at the top, on the right it says Case Status Dismissed. Not to mention it was dismissed in November of 2011, when Mitt and Ann were campaigning for the nomination... Now since Amy & Jan Ebling, and their ACR Enterprises are listed as the defendants multiple times, is it possible that ACR and the Eblings were handling the sale?

One more wee little thing, do you have any PROOF that Ann had anything to do with the sale, other than being named as a co defendant because she owned part of the horse?

Time to put up or shut up Kenny... Show us where Ann was present during the medical exam, and sale of the horse.

IOW Obama has nothing to run on, so he's letting his flunkies write shit stories like this knowing people like you will spread the manure for him.


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RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 5:17:29 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

And imo her MS affects her much more than what the public sees, so to some she looks "normal" & "healthy" even tho she likely has bad days, perhaps many of them..


MS is brutal, I agree. That said, the Romneys appear to have concluded that Mrs. Romney is strong enough to withstand the rigors of the campaign trail and perhaps the first ladyship.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 5:59:24 PM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		MS is a autoimmune disease, one of the five most common.
My mother has a autoimmune disease as did both
of my grandfathers. I have friends who have
lupus. A family friend died from lupus.
I have the symptoms of a autoimmune
disease and have been undergoing tests
to determine if I do. So, I'm very aware
of the ravages of autoimmune diseases
and have been for most of my life.
Mrs Romney has my compasion and I
certainly wish her the best regarding her
health. I wish she and her husband had
more compassion for their fellow citizens
with chronic health conditions who can't
get health insurance because they have
a pre-existing condition. But empathy
doesn't seem to be their strong suit.
Which brings us back to the horse.
They made the decision to buy the horse
and they made the decision to sell the
horse in the manner that they did.
If her health prevented her from going
about differently then her husband
should have seen to it. He bears as much
respondsiabilty as she does. What's his
excuse?
There are ethics involved in animal
ownership. I say that as someone who
owns a variety of animals including
horses. The way they rid themselves of
this horse was badly done. Not only ethically
but from a common sense viewpoint.


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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 6:08:33 PM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		I'm always fascinated by rightie losers who kiss every
rich ass they can seemingly in the pathetic hope that
in doing so some of the bounty will trickle down
from the booty.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud




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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 6:13:34 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

And imo her MS affects her much more than what the public sees, so to some she looks "normal" & "healthy" even tho she likely has bad days, perhaps many of them..


MS is brutal, I agree. That said, the Romneys appear to have concluded that Mrs. Romney is strong enough to withstand the rigors of the campaign trail and perhaps the first ladyship.

But how active is she really? how active compared to The First Lady.. I would certainly expect that Ann Romney is now no where near as active.. she likely must pace herself and can only go as much as her MS allows her to go.. The Romneys seem to be very much in love, still after decades together, which imo is refreshing considering the divorce rate so imo, she will do as much as she can to help her hubby.. that doesnt mean the rigors wont adversely affect her, they are taking that risk by going forward..

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RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 6:16:59 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

The Romney's, through their lack of care, attention and thought, have been showing a history of hurting animals. First with their dog on the car roof and now this.



Got anything to suggest the dog was harmed by the experience?

Can you tell us, without Googling, what kind of dog it was? Once you get that, could you identify the breed, without another click on the search page? Ever seen a dog riding down the road with his head out the car window? A big one in the back of a pick up, with his paws on the cab roof, and his face in the wind? A cute internet picture of some little dog, perched on the tank of a Harley?

Mitt has said the dog seemed to like it, and, if the animal was prone to tummy trouble on long rides, all the more reason to keep him out of the passenger compartment (put your imagination to work, and visualize being in a car with seven people, when the big dog riding along suddenly starts spraying poo).

You think it is heartless and cruel? Good for you. Pragmatic solutions often seem that way to people prone to ignorant assumptions, and led only by the "awww" response, in their views of the world. Just don't try to force it on anybody else as the facts of the matter.

Who did the Rezko Lawn deal harm? How about everybody who voted for Barack Obama to represent them in government, believing maybe he really was different, and wouldn't oil up to get in bed with the corrupt slime that made Chicago famous?

Pack up the fauxrage.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 6/24/2012 6:18:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 6:33:04 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple
MS is a autoimmune disease, one of the five most common.
My mother has a autoimmune disease as did both
of my grandfathers. I have friends who have
lupus. A family friend died from lupus.
I have the symptoms of a autoimmune
disease and have been undergoing tests
to determine if I do. So, I'm very aware
of the ravages of autoimmune diseases
and have been for most of my life.
Mrs Romney has my compasion and I
certainly wish her the best regarding her
health. I wish she and her husband had
more compassion for their fellow citizens
with chronic health conditions who can't
get health insurance because they have
a pre-existing condition. But empathy
doesn't seem to be their strong suit.
Which brings us back to the horse.
They made the decision to buy the horse
and they made the decision to sell the
horse in the manner that they did.
If her health prevented her from going
about differently then her husband
should have seen to it. He bears as much
respondsiabilty as she does. What's his
excuse?
There are ethics involved in animal
ownership. I say that as someone who
owns a variety of animals including
horses. The way they rid themselves of
this horse was badly done. Not only ethically
but from a common sense viewpoint.

I once left my cats in a kennel when i went away for 4 days, i came back and Squeek was so stressed out and had dandruff, was dehydrated just after a few days.. I guess that makes me a bad person, just like the Romneys, cuz I trusted someone I was paying to take care of my pets and it didnt turn out well..

People have to delegate at times (& rich people & business people more than most or there wouldnt be jobs for anyone), its impossible to do it all yourself..

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 6:54:33 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The Romneys declared a loss of $77,000 on their 2010 tax returns... A tax write off , almost double the average wage of a USA worker(43k$)



Translation...





Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 6:57:58 PM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		Not that you were addressing me or are even able to
read what I'm writing but here goes.

The dog survived the car trip. There were
survivors of the Titantic sinking and the
Hindenburg crashing. Didn't make it a happy
experience or anything anyone wanted to
repeat.
I said in one of my posts up thread that it's
my understanding the dog was a Irish
Wolfhound or Setter.
I also pointed out why people might conclude
Mitt is a bit of a dim bulb based on the
incident. But if you want to call that
ratfuck of a last minute solution
pragmatic go ahead.
Mitt would say the dog seemed to enjoy
it wouldn't he?
Is riding in the back of a pick up the same
as being in a crate strapped to the roof
of a car? How many hours and how many
miles on average do you suppose most
dogs you see in the back of pick ups will
clock?
The stealthy way you keep trying to
hijack this thread with Tony Rez makes
me think you realize that these animal
stories don't bode well for Mitt or say
much about his judgement.
I don't know what it was in eries post
that made you respond so unpleasantly
or so condescendingly. Unless she hit a
nerve.

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A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud




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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: What is it with the Romneys and animals? - 6/24/2012 7:06:15 PM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		Of course no one can do every little thing themselves
all the time.
But not taking money from selling a drugged
and injured horse is unsurprisingly doable.
Bit of a difference in kenneling a cat and
selling a horse.
And the trick with minions is to always have
other mionions reporting back to you.
Especially when you're thinking of running
for president.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud




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Profile   Post #: 75
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