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RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/10/2006 11:06:47 AM

Emperor1956

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

lisa1978 said: Not to be hypocritical after I just write about everyone having different meanings but, I do not believe you can be a mentor as a dominant actively playing with the submissive you are "mentoring" . I know it might be a difference of opinion on the word mentor, but for me a mentor is someone you can ask anything and get an independent answer. I just do not think you can ask your dominant "was it OK for you to do that?". The independence is just not there.

Lisa, I've considered this and I don't entirely agree with you. I think an ethical person can be both a mentor and a playmate, but both parties need to keep the roles very clear. What I object to is Dominant men trolling for submissives by saying they are "mentors". That sort of dishonesty never works. But I think a mentor can also be involved with a sub, and have a successful relationship.

I am of two minds. I've mentored several submissives with whom I've had an affectionate but non-sexual relationship. There was some "play" -- for example, with one girl, exploring nipple/breast torture because she felt safe with Me, was curious, and was afraid to have her first experience with a person she didn't really know well. But they were not Dom/sub relationships as we generally see them, and they were successful. I'm in touch with the subs I mentored, and while we no longer have a physical relationship, we remain friends.

I have also had a mentoring relationship with a new submissive that included a complete physical and D/s relationship. That also was good, but it was clear from the start that it was a mentoring/friends relationship and wasn't going any further than that, regardless of the physical aspects. When it was time for her to move on, she did. Still, I think that mentoring with "play" can work.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to lisa1978)

Post #: 101

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/10/2006 5:43:49 PM

alovelylady4U

Posts: 67
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: leeli
Status: offline

i know why i did both a Trainer as well as a Mentor. They answered questions and helped me stay "safe" in a lifestyle i was not completely familiar with, and sometimes dangerous for the new ones. i can never thank Them enough. (all of Y/you. With Y/your patience and devotion to this lifestyle, Y/you answer questions, sometimes over and over, offer advice, help us discover/define ourselves. You never judge, critizise- only accept and explain. Y/you understand us & make us feel welcome.

Trainer was local and could "show me" things that Mentor so far away could only explain. Sometimes words can limiting, Someone showing me the wand and explaining safety, that is something that will remain with me always. And so will my love for my Trainer and Mentor. W/we may not be M/s or D/s or may never even meet, but there is a special bond i have for Them.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 102

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/10/2006 6:21:21 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

Hello A/all,

I have been a trainer and a mentor. When I am in that role, I never consider the person I am working with to be anything other than a student. I use this role, since I will not have sex with or undertake a D/s relationship with said person for a certain period of time after ending the trainer/mentor relationship.

As far as sex is concerned. I view having sex with my submissive as part of the D/s dynamic. I know other people may not agree with that, but it is something that I need. And as I tell other people, they will eventually find what they are looking for. So will I.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Proprietrix)

Post #: 103

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/10/2006 8:16:41 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

quote:

I’m very curious why a person would believe they need training or a trainer to pursue a non-vanilla relationship.
Anyone have any insight on this?

I'ts probably the unknown factor, unknown quantities can be very scary for people. Also due to people gettting initial information off someone with a *trainers kink* and putting it across as a necessary thing.

Realistically to me, I dont really know what a *trainer* could offer a new submissive that the person couldnt find out for themselves with a little intelligence, research ability and just some plain old common sense. Like how hard can it be to learn to kneel.

Step 1: Get your balance
Step 2: Send a signal from your brain to your knees, tell them to bend.
Step 3. Lower to the floor.

Lets see what else could a trainer offer...

How to protect yourself 101

1. Be sensible
2. Be sensible
3. Be sensible

How to be obedient 101

1. Have the desire
2. Have the ability to put that desire into action

How to pick the right Master for you 101

1. Pull on your life skills.

How to be an excellent servant 101

1. Get some skills
2. Polish those skills

How to learn to dress seductively 101

1. Do research
2. Look in the mirror, see what looks nice on you

How to listen attentively 101

1. Start really listening to everyone you communicate with, not just hearing, listening.

How to overcome your fears 101

1. Assess if your fear is a real threat to you, if it is keep it.
2. If your fear is irrational, start pushing yourself through it in normal everyday situations.

How to approach a dominant 101

1. Be natural
2. Learn to be flexible in dealing with different personalities.

slavejali's training school signing out.
*grin*

oh one more thing...

Do you need a trainer 101

1. If it rocks your world, go for it

..to tell the truth, when Master threatens to send me to a training school it makes me kinda hot *grin*

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 104

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/11/2006 7:10:08 AM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Realistically to me, I dont really know what a *trainer* could offer a new submissive that the person couldnt find out for themselves with a little intelligence, research ability and just some plain old common sense.

Let's see what I can illuminate on this. What can we train that you probably can't learn with just some common sense:

*French Patissierie

*Cooking Skills - From basic (yes, there are people out there who can't cook without a microwave) to gourmet

*Small, Medium and Large Group Catering

*Formal Dinner Parties

*Simple Cake Decorating

*Chocolatiere

Formal Tea Service - English, Japanese and Gorean

**Cosmetics and Makeup Skills - Beyond Tammy Faye

**Grace in movement - How to walk less like a heffalump (for extreme cases, we usually recommend a belly-dancing class)

Proper Bathing and Dressing Techniques for the Formal "Dresser" (meaning a person who bathes and dresses others).

***Spiritual Service -- Historical and Modern Duties and roles of the Temple Servant

&*Herbalism

#Basic Homeopathic Care

&*Doula Skills -- Assisting with the Owner who is becoming a new parent

Container Gardening

*Lessons from a Chef trained through Institut Culinaire de Marie et Alain LaNotre
** Lessons from a trained former model
***Lessons from an ordained pan-doctrinal minister with a PhD in comparative religions and developmental Theology
&* Lessons from a miwife of 15 years and doctor of naturopathy
# Lessons from a trained DiHom

Kneeling, obediance, and housebreaking you can learn on your own.

Da'Avatar ZWD

www.klashaan.org

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 105

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/11/2006 8:37:52 AM

sbo614

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/28/2005
Status: offline

After seeing this question, my sub/slave and I, sat down and really talked this out. Could she have possibly submitted her life to me 24/7 without knowing what that meant to me? Could I possibly own her and have goals I expected her to meet without showing her what that meant? This is what we believe training is about.

Play is about physical and mental fun within the limits you have arranged. Training helps establish protocols, disciplines, expectations, bonding, ownership, love, respect and all the things that go into into a true, real, grounded and honest 24/7 D/s relationship.

Too many times we see/meet people who think they need training because that is what they see on the net. Most times they need an introduction to the lifestyle and want to speak the language of our world.

Just our thoughts ont he subject

SBO and slave m

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 106

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/11/2006 8:44:32 AM

zumala

Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline

LadiesBladewing: I like that. Those sorts of things would be highly interesting to me and I'm sure I'd enjoy learning them. That would indeed by one thing that could be meant by the term 'training'. Only problem is that it must be expensive as hell to get.

zuma

< Message edited by zumala -- 6/11/2006 8:46:43 AM >

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 107

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/11/2006 10:47:04 AM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

quote:

Original: LadiesBladewing
Let's see what I can illuminate on this. What can we train that you probably can't learn with just some common sense:

Yes....not to be contrary..well I am being contrary....but all of the things you listed can be learned outside of of bdsm.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to zumala)

Post #: 108

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/11/2006 10:47:16 AM

NakedWench

Posts: 2
Status: offline

jeez, i suppose i should read all the posts in this thread, but quite frankly my brain isn't big enough today. i would rather respond to the original post from the perspective of a brand new novice. i do not need trained. i am a natural and my response happens by instinct. what i do need is understanding of my nature...this comes from gathering information from a variety of sources. having a trusted friend is a priceless treasure...i have no one to talk about this new facet of my life...learning the culture and custom is the challenge. being immersed in a new environment is very foreign and learning how to perceive and understand all the posturing and the many layers and flavors and the ones who are true and real to the life.

my first real 'lessons':
One that i had trusted as mentor and teacher showed himself to be a deceiver and betrayer. i nearly felt i had squandered my precious gift, but after the sting had faded i could see that though it did not end well, i did learn how to prepare myself to make a connection. i learned that pretty words of wisdom do not make the foundation upon which to build trust. i learned what the unknown is, as i crossed the threshold into full submission for the first time. i learned how glorious it is to give myself over and that i am made for this. these are wonderful awarenesses almost worth the sting of the harsh lesson of being denied my satisfaction and humiliated far beyond shame then discarded without a second thought. i am well prepared for my next steps...now if i could find those who i can truly trust and disclose this part of myself, and maybe even find the One who will receive my devotion.

(in reply to LadyElizabeth)

Post #: 109

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/11/2006 11:42:07 AM

sbo614a

Posts: 2
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline

Naked wench -

In our lifestyle experience your experience with the trusted mentor that went bad can be mitigated to a degree with the proper "training". read our post previous to this to see what we believe training is and training does. We don't believe anybody needs to be trained to give themsef to someone. We believe the training is to limit the misunderstandings and set levels of expectations.

Just our point of view!

(in reply to NakedWench)

Post #: 110

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/11/2006 2:14:14 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Yes....not to be contrary..well I am being contrary....but all of the things you listed can be learned outside of of bdsm.

So perhaps you wouldn't come here to learn them... but then again, maybe you don't have an interest or a need to learn these things. Other reasons people might not choose to come to us might be location, or not wanting to learn in the context of a D/s household, or not feeling comfortable with our Tower's policies... there may be many reasons why a given teacher isn't right for someone.

At the same time, being able to come to our household and learn any combination of these things to stregthen one's service at the same time might be something no other place could offer. Or the opportunity to learn these things in a hierarchical setting might be useful to someone. Or perhaps an individual might feel that the opportunity to actually serve in a setting like the one a person might be in now or might be desiring to be in adds value to the learning experience.

I don't coerce, and I'm forthright in what we offer. Those who train with us as servants come away with more than their skills -- they come away with a better understanding of themselves as people, and what they're looking for. If you disagree, that's fine. This probably isn't the place that would be good for you to train. That does not, however, devalue the concept of training and the value of those willing to spend the time doing that training.

Da'Avatar ZWD

www.klashaan.org

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 111

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/11/2006 4:04:41 PM

mellian

Posts: 211
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline

I see more as needing more experience to help figure more of what I like and do not, and provide better idea as to what I seek. If not a long-term relationship anytime soon, I am open to short-term one(s) to try some things out. Yet I can see how some may get the impression they need training depending on the realife and online communities they are part of, which I think it just really means that one is to inexperience and that some Doms and Dommes not interested in dealing with newbies.

-mellian

(in reply to Proprietrix)

Post #: 112

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/11/2006 4:14:25 PM

NakedWench

Posts: 2
Status: offline

SBO/m

thank Yyou so much for the kind words...they speak to my heart as i know them to be true. i am in the beginning of knowing what it means to be owned. i am fortunate that aside from the mismatch/misunderstanding i have met one or two true Masters. i could glean enough from listening and observing to keep myself from getting so far turned around that i couldn't find my way. ironically, as i was going through this continuous transformation, seeking that which I need...He came.

For weeks He has been waiting for my readiness, and today He has made me His own. For someone starting out unknowingly, the biggest challenge for me was learning how to see.

Prior to this i was established in 'training', learning the expectations and protocol and demonstrating my servant's heart in humble obedience. the mistake was the Dom who changed the goals, the protocol, and the exchange after i had already fully submitted. then he assigned fault to me instead of being accountable for his actions.

Fortunately, good people like Y/you helped me to walk through the sting and come out on top and helped me to recognize my true Master. W/we are in the bare beginning, in 'training' as Y/you describe it and it is a delight to each of U/us.

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 113

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/12/2006 4:45:24 PM

sbo614a

Posts: 2
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline

Our pleasure naked wench. When going through real training where the sub and Master are bonding for a common goal more than a D/s relationship emerges. You get love, trust, honesty and joy at the end of the process. Getting there isn't easy and going through the paces without the training in our experience leads to a disaster.

I am kind of shocked that people would enter into a real time 24/7 D/s relationship without training. The reaction to it is almost wird to us. How can I as Master and potential owner of someone expect them to read my mind and understand what things mean to me. How can I judge what is right and wrong (beyond limits) for them without the proper training?

In Our Opinion : a sub without training is a kinky soul who wants to have fun. A sub with training has the potential to serve their owner/master for life.
A master without training is a nothing of the sort they are just a dominant person. It is very hard to be a real 24/7 Dom and not be trained.

Glad we can help and we sincerely hope your current situation works!

SBO and slave m

(in reply to NakedWench)

Post #: 114

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/12/2006 4:49:13 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sbo614a
I am kind of shocked that people would enter into a real time 24/7 D/s relationship without training. The reaction to it is almost wird to us. How can I as Master and potential owner of someone expect them to read my mind and understand what things mean to me. How can I judge what is right and wrong (beyond limits) for them without the proper training?

It's this newfangled method called "Getting to know eachother and communicating over time" I think it started in Belgium. Anyway, I think it's exotic and way cool.

I have no interest in training someone I am not going to be in a long term relationship with. And I don't know if I want to be in a long term relationship with someone until I get to know them, they get to know me and we see how our lives mesh.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to sbo614a)

Post #: 115

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/13/2006 1:28:17 AM

GYPSYGRANNY4U

Posts: 11
Joined: 6/9/2006
Status: offline

read a book
go to a munch
experiment with a partner
see what feels right or good to you
there is no right or wrong way
jump in to the deep end of the ocean the water is just fine

(in reply to Proprietrix)

Post #: 116

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/13/2006 2:32:18 AM

Kedikat

Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

I'd love to train one. My one. If one wants training from Me, she best be prepared to be Mine. A great part of a relationship is trying new things with your mate. Growing, enjoying.
And it is a whole different feeling in every way to be experiencing a new thing with your mate, instead of an instructor. Of course there is always the fun of being student and strict teacher with your mate. Mmmm detention, corporal punishment, school uniform :)

(in reply to Proprietrix)

Post #: 117

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 1/18/2008 9:00:09 PM

Redoubt

Posts: 185
Joined: 8/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: peterK50
I don't think there is a right or wrong here. If a sub/slave feels s/he wants training first then what's the harm? If s/he wants to learn from the Dom/me s/he will serve from the ground up well that's fine too.

I agree, the concept of training in itself is actually a pretty darned good one. And if novices were keeping their wits about them, seeking actual long term training and discipline, not just a few hot scenes and fucks, and didn't just fall for the guy who got their panties all wet and sounded all wise- I'd be the first one to shove newbies into training.

But that's not how it works.

Somehow this thread went from "Why do clueless newbies plunge themselves into a frenzy of NEEDING training right off when what they want (a personal relationship) they already have the skills for?" into discussing the merits of training in the scene in general.

Not a bad thing, but definitely a swerve from the path.

I'm going to revive this old thread with this quote.

Once again, we're drifting towards labels as our means to classify, clarify and justify.

Training in itself can be as harmless as offering advice and insight, often as beneficial as gently introducing a novice to what a crop, a paddle or a flogger feels like, but there are many who abuse it to prey on the inexperienced. Therefore, anyone offering training to novices is "bad"

Horseshit.

There are those who are using it as a tool to prey on the inexperienced - I think we can agree on calling that bad, and there are those whose fulfilment comes from mentoring and watching a novice grow - I don't know about you, but I think thats a good thing. Of course there will be those in the former group who pretend to be the latter, but you will never be able to escape that.

Anyone who is involved in training a new submissive to understand what this lifestyle can entail can never replace a dominant owner or partner... and would set that expectation from the start.

So once again, we are forced to rely on our instincts, and not to blindly rush into a relationship without taking appropriate measures to reduce risk as much as possible.

The desire to protect the newcomer to this world of deliciously deviant delight is a common and healthy one, but like it or not, anyone who posts in this forum is a potential trainer, whether you choose to advertise yourself as one or not. I imagine that those who have a positive perception of training met a mentor, and those who have a negative perception of training either met a predator, or have knowledge of a person who ran into one.

Lets continue to educate without tarring with too thick a brush.

And for the newbies, learn this expression: "and what would that involve?"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 118

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 1/19/2008 12:39:29 AM

LadyLolly

Posts: 140
Joined: 5/21/2005
Status: offline

Well said. Thank you - now I don't have any need to put my buck and a quarter in.

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 119

RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 1/19/2008 7:23:02 AM

Justme696

Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline

I do nothing then train people for my work. But their is nothing as hard to train people in soemthing..that will be used in a relation.
There for I only advise sub/slaves if they ask me..unless..we end in a relation. I can only train one for myself, not for others. Different people, different tastes.
But advise can be broader.

_____________________________

~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

(in reply to LadyElizabeth)

Post #: 120

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