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joether -> RE: GOP Wastes Money; Conservatives stay Ignorant (7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM)
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Um, how much, would you say it costs? I can honestly say I have no idea how much it costs *1 or *30, or *n (where n equals the number of bills passed by the House)
I couldnt give an educated guess, as I have no visibility on all the workings within both the House and Senate buildings (including the areas around them). The physical and labor costs specifically. I am surprised that niether the CBO (neutral) or conservatives (biased) have pointed out such figures in the recent past. Likewise, each bill is different in that some are 'no brainers' (i.e. hiring White House interns.....yes.....Congress has to approve that) and others are intensely fought over (i.e. the 14 months on the ACA). So the average cost might be misleading figure to go with (the mode, median and average). One would have to look at each bill as a seperate entity and decide what is the level of 'acceptable' verse 'waste'. Further, if the first attempt failed, the second fails, and the third fails, why keep going on up to 31 failed attempts? Isnt the true defination of 'insanity' doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. That it, the Republicans just proved beyond a shadow of doubt they are all mentally insane!
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
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ORIGINAL: joether
And the Republicans have done this now thirty times. So thats 'X * 30' in US Dollars. And we are not just paying all the Congressmen/women, but the clerks, administrations, security, cleaners, etc.
Those people would have been paid, and sometimes, it's better to keep Government spinning it's wheels rather than have them work on something else. It's safer, IMO.
That's B.S., and you know. If Congressional Democrats pushed a bill to remove the 2nd Amendment, would it be politically motivated? Of course it would be! Would conservatives bitch high and wide about it (including getting most of the information and facts wrong)? "You Bet'cha" they would! And if Democratic Congressional folks did it thirty-one times, how big would the 'shit-storm' from the NRA and conservative allies be about this? Louder than the three largest/loudest rock concerts in the history of mankind! Not only would conservatives be bitching about the 2nd Amendment being directly attacked 31 times, but the amount of 'time spent' and 'taxpayer dollars wasted' that could have been deployed for things Americans need.....like jobs.
YET....
These same conservatives are totally silent while the samething takes place in reverse. Where are all those 'Fiscal Conservatives' that bitched the ARRA was 'Gov'mnt spinding or Tax bucks!" three years ago? They must have all dropped dead in those three years, right? Unless conservatives are willing to how their own party to twice the level of accountibily and responsibility as they slam the President and Democrats on an hourly basis.....they have no business bitching on the way money is spent by said President and Democrats.
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The only reason this bothers you, is because it is being done by Republicans. You would probably agree that they'd be better fiscal watchdogs if they'd only pass bills that would pass the Senate Democrats.
Isnt it a 'conservative philosophy' that if the US Goverment is wasting money on something, they should stop? Since the money is 'The People's money' not the goverment? That's the bitching I heard when the ACA was being developed, put into law, challenged, and up-held by the US Supreme Court. Is it 'ok' for Republicans to spend 'High on the Hog' but not Democrats? Is it 'ok' for conservatives to spend 'High on the Hog' but not liberals? If your going to lash out towards the President, Democrats and liberals about spending habits, that implies you are holding yourself, Republicans and conservatives to an even....HIGHER....standard of 'fiscal responsbility and accountibily'. And that, DS, is just not happening right now.
The whole concept of 'Congress', DS, is for the US Houses of Representatives and the US Senate to....WORK TOGETHER...to handle the billion of problems the country faces both 'today', 'tommorow', 'next week', 'next month', 'next year', and the 'next ten years' afterward. So 'yes', if Republicans wish a bill to be approved and put into law, they have to devise it so that it 'squeezes by' just barely in the Democratic-controlled US Senate. And if Democrats wish a bill to past, the must do the same thing towards Republicans. That's REALLY the problem with a 'lame duck Congress'. I figured you would know this being so 'knowledgable' and 'worldly'.....my mistake!
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Do you realize that the Republicans aren't doing this to waste money, but to do something useful for the American people? If Republicans think Obamacare is bad for the American people, then their passing bills repealing it is working towards something good for the American people, which satisfies your "useful for the American people" criterion.
Did you ever stop and consider that most Americans like the ACA or wish for it to be better? Republicans dont like the Affordable Care Act because a Democrat took their material for ten years ago, and passed it directly in front of them. Open the US History books. Go back a few years to a dozen years. Then compare that to what is actually in the ACA....BEFORE....Republicans were asked by the President "What would need to be in this bill to get your approval on the bill?".
The ACA will help tens of millions (if not hundreds of millions) of Americans in the poorest and wealthy sections of the nation. Will give incentive for people to lead healthier lives and be responsible with what they do to their bodies (good and bad). Have you even read the bill? Or did you get 'cliff notes' from the GOP's mouthpiece, FOX News? I'm willing to bet that in ten to fifteen years from now, you'll easily be benefiting from one or more concepts found directly in the ACA. In fact, you maybe benefitting from it right now and not even know it.
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Conservatives opposing Obamacare can respond to you by telling you that the Senate Democrats are wasting taxpayer money by not passing the bills passed by the House. And, wouldn't President Obama also waste taxpayer dollars, in their eyes, if he were to veto the bill?
As I said above. When Republicans came forth with a bill that Democrats like, they'll sign off on it. If the President likes it, he'll sign off on it as well. The President seems to be a pretty intelligent, educated and reasonable man. That is what is called 'compromising' on a bill, DS. A word that has been deleted from the '1984-ish' conservative dictionary. Democrats are not going to sign off on a bill that doesnt benefit the folks that tend to vote them into power in the first place. Honestly, why is this concept so hard to understand with you? Have you NEVER taken a civics course in high school? As I brought this same answer up to you on two different threads in the past.
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I support the Legislative Branch not being in session 24/7/365. I support not paying them when they are not in session. I support term limits. I support them not having pensions and health care for life afterwards. And, yes, I know that would be irresponsible to foist that upon them immediately without having some phase-in period so people like Marcy Kaptur, who have been career officeholders, don't have the rug pulled out from beneath them.
Well now, all you have to do is figure out what I want. You could just ask me. But that's not a conservative 'quality'. In fact, your to assume I know what I want, write bill, give it to me and than start bitching when I say 'no'. So you do it thirty-one more times, with minor adjustments each time. To which I say 'no' each time. But you never think to ask me....."what do I want?". Because that implies I will give you a counter offer back that you dont like. So you'll have to weigh the 'pros' and 'cons' of your bill. You are welcome to make conscentions, deals, and such with me, with regards to the bill. A 'give & take' relationship might be created as.....we....work towards the bill's final form. THAT, is how Congress should work, when Republicans are NOT behaving like 6th graders. Why is this so hard to understand, DS? Please tell me. Cus this same conversation comes up over and over again. Congress does NOT operate in a vaccum.
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