Honor?

Honor? (Full Version)

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JeffBC -> Honor? (7/11/2012 8:26:26 AM)
"Honor", like "trust" and "respect" is a word that gets bandied about on BDSM sites an awful lot. So that makes me curious... how exactly do YOU define this word and how does it manifest in your day-to-day life? This post is a direct result of the post where a single sub is asking us if it's OK to have an affair with a married guy. I was accused of being "judgemental" because I noted that self-gratification isn't really a code of honor. But honestly, it's a part of a larger theme I'm exploring from another vanilla "marriage" site. In real life, pretty much everyone there is talking about cheating or being cheated on. My general observation is that I can't even really understand their thought patterns because they lack honor (quite specifically, they go with "the ends justify the means"). Oft-times I wonder how the one spouse got involved with the other because I wouldn't have touched either with a 10' pole -- disqualified on the basis of honor. So... what's it mean to you?

OsideGirl -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 8:29:14 AM)
Honor is something that would take me some thought to define all of it's nuances. But I am reminded of "what is the difference between ethics and morals?" The ethical man knows he shouldn't cheat on his wife. The moral man won't cheat on his wife.

LaTigresse -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 8:31:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC "Honor", like "trust" and "respect" is a word that gets bandied about on BDSM sites an awful lot. So that makes me curious... how exactly do YOU define this word and how does it manifest in your day-to-day life? This post is a direct result of the post where a single sub is asking us if it's OK to have an affair with a married guy. I was accused of being "judgemental" because I noted that self-gratification isn't really a code of honor. But honestly, it's a part of a larger theme I'm exploring from another vanilla "marriage" site. In real life, pretty much everyone there is talking about cheating or being cheated on. My general observation is that I can't even really understand their thought patterns because they lack honor (quite specifically, they go with "the ends justify the means"). Oft-times I wonder how the one spouse got involved with the other because I wouldn't have touched either with a 10' pole -- disqualified on the basis of honor. So... what's it mean to you? Honour for me, is me living by my ethics and morals. Walking the walk instead of just talking the talk. Being responsible.

RemoteUser -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 8:49:06 AM)
I only define it when properly spelled with the letter 'u'. [;)] I go all Biblical/Sumerian law on my definition. To honor something is to respect and accept it for what it is. An honourable act is respected and accepted, likability and right/wrong don't apply. You can hate someone who does an honourable thing; you can hate that an honourable act is required. How you treat the act itself is a whole nuther thing. Applying that back, honouring someone's sexual agreement(s) with other persons means to accept them, which means not breaking them. If a married woman asks me to sleep with her but I don't know she's married, it's hardly my fault. If a married woman asks me to help her cheat, then it is (so yes, awareness counts, a fine distinction between moral and ethical law but there are other examples - pick anything church vs state). I would also add that their responsibilities are not your own; if someone tells you they are cheating you may have a moral reaction but they cheated, not you. You can act on that but that reflects you, not them. So honour is also an individual choice, even though we silly humans try to apply it like a blanket at night. Talk about suicide in three different cultures and you might get three different answers, and none of them are wrong. Giving honour to your family, your country, or any outside agency is also still ultimately a personal choice. How that is received is another tangent as well, usually driven by the rules governing the society in question. (Two people do constitute a society. Makes friendships something new, doesn't it?) Meh, my two cents are in, take them as ye like.

LadyPact -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 8:53:40 AM)
To Me, honor is the integrity that you are supposed to follow through on and living your life that way. Yes, I suppose I've got this tied into knowing the difference between right and wrong, and making the choices to live the right way. I know a lot of people say we can't agree on what those decisions should be, but the basic ones are pretty easy. Shouldn't be too difficult for the kink crowd, since most of them are related to not harming another person, anyway. There's a part of Me that says I should add, it's also owning it when you make the wrong choice. It's kind of early in My time zone, but I'll put this out there, too. If I hold Myself up to My own standards, I don't have to worry much about what other people think. Mine are rather high in this area.

Kana -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 9:02:39 AM)
Puts on his Prof hat for a moment. Integrity is derived from the word integer,the latin word for whole, a math term that is used to define a number that is complete in and of itself, a 1, 2, 3 as opposed to a fraction or negative. The actual word integrity was first used by jewelers and gem cutters, and was coined to describe a stone cut in such a fashion that no matter what angle it was viewed from it appeared the same, in other words, the stone was consistent. The word then shifted in use to describe people who are the same. Thus a person of integrity would be consistent in beliefs, actions, values,. morals, principles and methodology. Aaaaand, (Here's the kicker you knew was coming), a person who is not consistent, as in changes who and what they are depending on circumstances, situations, desired outcomes etc...you know, kinda what you are suggesting above...lacks integrity and in fact has none because they are not whole, they are not cohesive, and they do not show the same face/actions to the world no matter what angled they are viewed from. We now return to the regularly scheduled program.

needlesandpins -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 9:23:14 AM)
to me being honourable means sticking to the truth, being honest, respectful, and considerate no matter how bad it may get for yourself. if you give your word on something then stick to it. there is no honour in cheating. it's all about lies and decieving someone you are supposed to love and respect. all that shit about 'but i knew the truth would hurt you, and i didn't want to do that' is a cowards bullshit cop out because they are not big enough to deal with your hurt, anger, devestation....etc caused by their shitty, self centred actions. nothing justifies the crap that is involved with cheating......or breaking your word/promise. if you need someone else so badly then grow up and own it. either come to some agreement with your SO, or split up. dishonourable people will always use the person they are cheating/decieving, and their emotional being as the justification for being a shitty weak person. we all know right from wrong. we know whether our actions will hurt those who are supposed to be important to us. if you look at that hurt, and think that what you are about to get is worth hurting that person for......well your are being a scum bag. especially where cheating and breaking your word is concerned. needles

Thaz -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 9:30:30 AM)
I live by my word. However that also means quite often I wont give it to someone I'm unsure of or when I cant be certain a thing will get done. I try and do the right thing and let people know when I cannot and why. It means manning up and accepting it when you fucked up and doing what you can to put it right. It doesnt mean being stupid or an easy mark.

needlesandpins -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 9:55:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thaz I live by my word. However that also means quite often I wont give it to someone I'm unsure of or when I cant be certain a thing will get done. I try and do the right thing and let people know when I cannot and why. It means manning up and accepting it when you fucked up and doing what you can to put it right. It doesnt mean being stupid or an easy mark. i like that alot. i wish more people were like this. needles

WestBaySlave -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 10:14:48 AM)
I see honor as a consistent moral code, openly and fairly related to those who'll be affected by ones actions. It's tricky as I see it more as an honest moral code rather than one I agree with. If someone says they believe in shooting anyone wearing a hat, well, they might be honorable, but still rather far removed from my view of what's right. If someone goes into a relationship saying they don't believe in fidelity, then buyer beware, and I don't really see that as being dishonorable or cheating. As for whether it matters in BDSM, I'm thinking this will really depend on the depth and complexity of the involvement. If you're looking for a night of kinky fun or a hot chat, someone's honor might not affect you at all, bar safety concerns... As for being criticized as judgmental, if someone asks, they better be prepared for an answer.

kitkat105 -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 10:22:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins to me being honourable means sticking to the truth, being honest, respectful, and considerate no matter how bad it may get for yourself. if you give your word on something then stick to it. I agree with this.

Moonlightmaddnes -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 11:05:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl Honor is something that would take me some thought to define all of it's nuances. But I am reminded of "what is the difference between ethics and morals?" The ethical man knows he shouldn't cheat on his wife. The moral man won't cheat on his wife. ^^ This

poise -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 11:13:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC "Honor"... how exactly do YOU define this word and how does it manifest in your day-to-day life? So... what's it mean to you? My definition of the word is combined in the answers already given, especially this one from needles: being honourable means sticking to the truth, being honest, respectful, and considerate no matter how bad it may get for yourself Being an honorable person has become effortless for me, almost an unconcious thought. In my day to day life, I try to maintain that honor by honoring Him, by being and doing the best that I can. Offering Him anything less is cheating.

TNDommeK -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 11:23:20 AM)
I think part of the moral decay in the world is that people are losing site of honor. My word is very important to Me. The way I act is important to Me. I have certain values that I do not break or bend. I think that is My honor. There are a lot of things that show us right from wrong, I think doing right and standing by your choices is honorable.

LaTigresse -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 11:41:54 AM)
Has anyone else noticed that, there are people, that are almost offended when they run up against a solid "Not going there, no way, no how." person? There are just some things that cross a line, for me, that I won't tolerate. Not of myself and not of anyone around me. If a topic comes up in conversation that gives me cause to voice an opinion, it is as though people almost expect that you will agree with them just to be agreeable. That having a difference of opinion is somehow just rude. Regardless of how it's done. I wonder, do people like that just not have personal boundaries or is it more often as I suspect, they don't have the self confidence to stand by their personal convictions?

JanahX -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 11:46:39 AM)
I get approached by married men all the time. I first off ask them - "Does your wife know that your looking for an intimate relationship outside your marriage?" Surprisingly enough, most DO tell me the truth - which is mostly on the NO side. Then I hit them with - "why would you think I would want to be involved with a liar and a cheater?" Im an honest person. (99% of the time) Ive conducted my life so I dont have to run and hide. Which brings up another point - it also makes them cowards in my eyes. Yeah - thats the type of guys I go for. Liars, cheaters, and cowards. Give me a fucking break. Of course when confronted with that - they run away. Integrity means everything to me. In order to have honor, you have to be brave and have courage. Courage to do the right thing - what that right thing is, depends on your morals and values. If those are not in the right place, then problems arise and people get hurt. Im not into hurting people - not like that. So I always try my best to be honest, have empathy (to a certain extent) and keep my honor in tact.

TNDommeK -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 11:52:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Has anyone else noticed that, there are people, that are almost offended when they run up against a solid "Not going there, no way, no how." person? There are just some things that cross a line, for me, that I won't tolerate. Not of myself and not of anyone around me. If a topic comes up in conversation that gives me cause to voice an opinion, it is as though people almost expect that you will agree with them just to be agreeable. That having a difference of opinion is somehow just rude. Regardless of how it's done. I wonder, do people like that just not have personal boundaries or is it more often as I suspect, they don't have the self confidence to stand by their personal convictions? This happened to Me last night on fb. I am one of those people that if you say not to tell anyone what you have told Me, then guess what, I'm not. Not only is it just how I am, but chances are, I have forgotten it within 5 minutes, lol. Also it should let the person who is asking Me to tell know that I wouldn't tell their secrets. Hey, if they get mad about it, sorry. But I am not that type of person. Is that along the lines of what you were saying? Like how ppl get mad when you don't break your rules of honor?

Moonlightmaddnes -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 11:52:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse If a topic comes up in conversation that gives me cause to voice an opinion, it is as though people almost expect that you will agree with them just to be agreeable. That having a difference of opinion is somehow just rude. Regardless of how it's done. I wonder, do people like that just not have personal boundaries or is it more often as I suspect, they don't have the self confidence to stand by their personal convictions? I know right. I have had more the one WTF moments when someone personally attacked me for simply having a different opinion. What I am not allowed to think differently then someone. Moreso someone I do not even know personally? I tend to just say my generic we will have to agree to disagree and back away. I have no time for those types of people. quote: Then I hit them with - "why would you think I would want to be involved with a liar and a cheater?" Im an honest person. (99% of the time) Ive conducted my life so I dont have to run and hide. Which brings up another point - it also makes them cowards in my eyes. Yeah - thats the type of guys I go for. Liars, cheaters, and cowards. Give me a fucking break. Of course when confronted with that - they run away. Last time a married man approached me to ' have a bit of fun in the bedroom,' I not only told his wife but my husband as well. That snarky smile was wiped off his face when my furious husband showed up at his front door.

Thaz -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 12:16:24 PM)
So many married men seem to equate BDSM with the loose morals (I almost said slut but that gets complex, several close friends answer to that) who will sleep with anyone. Shows they dont get it.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Honor? (7/11/2012 12:16:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana Puts on his Prof hat for a moment. Integrity is derived from the word integer,the latin word for whole, a math term that is used to define a number that is complete in and of itself, a 1, 2, 3 as opposed to a fraction or negative. The actual word integrity was first used by jewelers and gem cutters, and was coined to describe a stone cut in such a fashion that no matter what angle it was viewed from it appeared the same, in other words, the stone was consistent. The word then shifted in use to describe people who are the same. Thus a person of integrity would be consistent in beliefs, actions, values,. morals, principles and methodology. Aaaaand, (Here's the kicker you knew was coming), a person who is not consistent, as in changes who and what they are depending on circumstances, situations, desired outcomes etc...you know, kinda what you are suggesting above...lacks integrity and in fact has none because they are not whole, they are not cohesive, and they do not show the same face/actions to the world no matter what angled they are viewed from. We now return to the regularly scheduled program. Excellent post, Kana !! And, I concur. This is what honor means to me. Living by my own personal sense of integrity. This has not always been easy; there have been times it was a struggle. This tells me my personal sense of integrity is strong.

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