34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/13/2012 7:45:16 AM)

[image]http://img00.hc360.com/electric/201204/201204191757168713.jpg[/image]




Dresproperty -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/13/2012 10:57:05 AM)

Wow~~ that is sad.




MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/13/2012 12:11:21 PM)

What time of the year were the two pictures taken? What is the difference in lenses? Angle?

Taken at face value that picture shows central Florida as a desert. It isn't. Same with the Baja Peninsula and the Pacific Coast. And Wisconsin.

What you are seeing is either a trick of the light or an outright fraud.




NuevaVida -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/13/2012 1:52:14 PM)

Doesn't look accurate to me, either. It's showing the entire west coast as a desert. And look how much smaller the US looks in the 1978 pic - look at the Gulf Coast. How is it the country exponentially grew in size, in less than a century?




hardcybermaster -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/13/2012 2:55:49 PM)

that doesn't help anyone's cause, the climate change denial gang will pick holes in that all day long I'm afraid




ARIES83 -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/13/2012 4:30:33 PM)

I believe global warming is a serious and
real issue, here in Aus we are actually just
rolling out our carbon tax which will make
the cost of living around 10-20% more
expencive but Im happy to pay it, the
basic idea is green companies will be able
to offer cheeper products and services or
atleast be on an equal footing with the
polluters and it will make green technologies
more attractive.
It's incredibly unpopular and the party that
has brought it in has probably committed
political suiside but it's things like that that
make me proud to be an Australian.

As for the photos, i think they are false colour.
Not human eye colour, read what nasa did to those
Bluemarble pics to make them into a full picture.
Its pretty hard to find actual true colour pics of earth.
If you find one prepare to be disappointed.

-ARIES




LookieNoNookie -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/13/2012 4:53:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

[image]http://img00.hc360.com/electric/201204/201204191757168713.jpg[/image]


That's not really clear...anecdotal possibly but....not exactly descriptive.

When were the images taken?

Summer vs. Fall?




Musicmystery -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/14/2012 8:59:23 AM)

~FR~

I've no doubt the photos were cherry picked. But do your own searches; the effect is very real.

On land, it's desertification due to deforestation. During the Reagan years, for example, we cut down more timber in the U.S. than in all the rain forests of the world. We've had 24 more years of it since, and it shows.

In the oceans, we continue to dump waste, and again, it adds up.

In the atmosphere, air pollution globally is increasing, as dirty means of production are continued and in developing nations expanded.

So yes, we are browning our planet.





MercTech -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/14/2012 9:25:31 AM)

De-Forestation... vs the fact that more arable land has been returned to forest than has been cleared in the last three decades.... hmm, urban myths.




Musicmystery -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/14/2012 9:35:23 AM)

Ah, the "because I say so" man.

Data blows, don't it.




LizDeluxe -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/15/2012 6:51:05 AM)

Deforestation in the US

"Nearly all of this deforestation took place prior to 1910, and the forest resources of the United States have remained relatively constant through the entire 20th century."

While man has certainly cleared away old growth forests in the course of developing civilization these types of "the sky is falling" missives are more detrimental to the tree hugger's cause than helpful.




Musicmystery -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/15/2012 1:26:38 PM)

Who says the sky is falling? The message was "kinda sad."

Overreaction on your part doesn't help either.

"About half of the world original forests had disappeared by 2011, the majority during the last 50 years. Since 1990 half of the rain forests have disappeared."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation

The sky isn't falling -- the trees are.

Then there's the air and water pollution.




FrostedFlake -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/15/2012 7:57:42 PM)

[image]http://0.tqn.com/d/forestry/1/0/m/l/forest_region_acres.JPG[/image]

http://fia.fs.fed.us/library/briefings-summaries-overviews/docs/ForestFactsMetric.pdf

While things are not 'great', where "Excessive Government Regulation" has been enforced, things are improving. Let us not overlook, too, that these days clearcuts are less common and it is more often the case that the best trees, rather than the weed trees, are left standing in select cuts. This makes industrial forest more closely resemble natural forests and able to support more and more diverse wildlife.

More improvement is needed, as should be emphasized by the two billion people expected to be added by 2050. So let's hear it for more "Excessive Government Regulation".




MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/15/2012 11:51:05 PM)

Graphs without context. Great arguing* there. I can show you graphs that increase the number of trees, increase the general biomass, or even show that sparkly vampires are the new guardians of nature.

I have yet ( to my recollection) said whether I am conservative, liberal, gun-toting hatemonger or vegan-peacenik.

Bad science is bad science. Emotionally chosen pictures is bad science. Cherry picked images is lying.

If you truly believe that the world is under stress than you should post honest versions of what the world is like, not obviously, and easily, refutable crap. You will end up fighting a losing battle because your data is falsified.

I would be willing to give to climate change people a lot more credit if they weren't constantly lying about it. The science just doesn't support their claims.

* I mean this as in the classical sense of 'arguing.'




ARIES83 -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/16/2012 12:33:14 AM)

Two words:
Al gore rocks

-ARIES




epiphiny43 -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/16/2012 2:16:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

De-Forestation... vs the fact that more arable land has been returned to forest than has been cleared in the last three decades.... hmm, urban myths.

An interesting 'fact'. Truth be told, most of the 're-forestation' is in industrialized agricultural monoculture of single species, single age commercial trees that are largely ecological deserts except for the neat rows of 'for harvest' trees, their parasites and the chemicals to control the parasites. Cotton and tobacco became losers, pulp pine is making money.
Much of the remaining forest outside the few protected areas is now honeycombed and partitioned by roads and 'gentleman estates' as the urban well to do build second homes in what used to be wildness, then want the local ecology to be changed to accommodate their vision of a rural paradise. No predators to eat Fluffy and Fido (That control the deer who other wise overpopulate and damage forest and shrub land), no natural fuel removing fires in the understory that prevent disastrous crowning fires, and so on.
There are more Trees. But actual forest continues to decline. The major gains have been in marginal size farms that have been abandoned, too inefficient in today's markets to support a family, too small of workable plots or inconvenient location to interest the massive food corporations that have largely monopolized agriculture wherever profitable. These usually isolated scrub lands will take hundreds of years to mature into climax forest, if they ever can, unassisted by deliberate planting and prevention of selective harvesting.
The recent decline of huge sections, if not most, of SouthWestern forest from new destrictive insects brought by globalization trade patterns and general interest in exotic plants is hardly a gain in forest. Predictions now are that massive erosion and lack of flourishing forest water absorption will reduce available water resources in the SouthWest to possibly disastrous levels. At best there will be painful adjustments and a reduction in US food security.
Eastern forests, are suffering the same insults and decline but particularly at mid to higher altitudes, are more affected by acid rain, which like much of Europe, is seeing to no new recruitment of young trees of many species and decline or death of many adults. It Looks like a forest, unless you walk through it and know what it should look like.
The functionality of small partitions of forest have proven most disappointing to those who hoped saving plots among a general land conversion to agriculture and animal husbandry would make a difference. Only large contiguous forest of all age trees, living and fallen into decay, function fully as ecologically intact forests. Less than that always has diminished species count, general abundance and small ecology variation. Which usually means eventual extinction of more and more life as the process continues from growing population pressure and its growing energy and consumption expectations of people world wide. Humanity IS eating the planet.

Yeah, you can prove (Or choose to believe) anything with well chosen statistics? Knowledge is good. Understanding is better.




Musicmystery -> RE: 34 years of pollution/deforestation seen from space (7/16/2012 4:36:51 AM)

~FR~

Well, seems the P & R vibe is leaking up into this forum.

Let's talk about reality then.

The OP doesn't say the sky is falling. The OP doesn't say a thing about global warming. The OP doesn't even give any prescribed action. It says, merely, that it's "kinda sad." And yet--we have people fervently diving into discussions only they are having. Pre-programed bots ready to fight the demons living in their heads, the ones only they can see, wherever they look. This they call "fact" and "science"? Off to a bad start.

So that leaves us causes for the appearance of the two pictures. While, as I've said, it's likely the photos were cherry picked, that doesn't negate their message that the world's appearance has changed. All it takes to challenge that is other pictures. An easy task--yet no one has even attempted it. Why? They're convinced "they just know." Hmmm. Nothing particularly scientific about that either. Certainly a wide range of photos are readily available.

At issue is (1) air pollution, (2) ocean pollution <--seriously, is anyone questioning these exist? Or that they are caused by human activity? Is there anyone honestly who believes the planet is polluting itself? There's a wealth of data--you don't need to go by pictures. Whether that causes global warming is a completely separate topic, and one that certainly doesn't negate the existence of air and water pollution. Data, people. If you want to argue science, you'll need independent data.

Then we have the range of de/re-forestation claims. Again, a lot of conjecture. But we have data. It's not a matter of opinion. Nor is deforestation at this level something that just happens without human involvement.

See what you want to see. But that's sad in itself.




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