RE: O and the Entrepreneur

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Yachtie -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 11:24:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn If you can't make money off your employees, you don't deserve to be in whatever business. You either can or can't provide something useful to others, price being some part of that. Every company that thrives lives off their employees. Most of us know that going in, either side of it, no big deal. What's your point? That the person I was responding to, within the comments flow, is an idiot.

DomYngBlk -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 11:40:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk My god, you are mental. Do you not understand the free enterprise system? They weren't asking you for anything. They were offering their labor simply. In return they were simply wanting to make sure your offer matched the others they had in hand. If it matched fine.....if not I am sure they moved on. They moved on? They moved on???? But, BUT!!! I thought they were here to help me[8\|] bwahahahahaha But, nooooo. They were after the best offer they could get. Hardly helping hands[:D] Sure just as you are after the cheapest labor. Please save me from this fucking "job creator" bullshit.

Edwynn -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 12:43:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn If you can't make money off your employees, you don't deserve to be in whatever business. You either can or can't provide something useful to others, price being some part of that. Every company that thrives lives off their employees. Most of us know that going in, either side of it, no big deal. What's your point? That the person I was responding to, within the comments flow, is an idiot. I am not entirely apart from you on such matters, but please understand, my uni classes and personal interest both tell me that there are numerous ways of going about it. I think this 'globalization' thing is entirely crap sometimes (just ask Joseph Stiglitz, econ Pulitzer awardee and former IMF Chief Economist), he'll tell you. But he has written another book saying that there is actually a good way to go about it, and therein lies my interest. Anything the press or think tanks tell you is completely false. Neither your faux 'econ' blogs nor my uni classes are going to tell us the whole story here. Japan, as a country, has been in the economic dirt for over a decade, their national debt as % of GDP is far above what we have in the US. But the problem there is that the yen is still too strong vs. other currencies. Meanwhile, it's ridiculous how low the British Pound and the Euro have dived vs. the US $. No, I don't understand that and won't pretend to, other than to say that the money hawks have gone bonkers. Their panties all in the tightest knot about Greece and Portugal, as they act like Germany and France or Denmark or Sweden or Switzerland aren't even on the map. Yeah, 'global' thinkers, that lot. What F*cking twits. I wish I wasn't broke at this juncture, else I'd be buying all the Euro denominated (non-bank) corporate bonds I could get ahold of. The Euro is so silly cheap right now, but that isn't going to last forever. In any event, European countries, the successful ones, have been doing for decades what all the US press and 'econ blogs' tell us will drive this country to ruin. To the extent that Germany and France and Denmark and Sweden have fewer billionaires per capita than the US, I suppose we could recognize the 'ruination' from that standpoint. But the stats regarding national savings, debt as % of GDP, the current account balance, etc. tell a different story. Quite a different story, in fact. What say the 'econ blogs' about that?

joether -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 2:24:09 PM)
Why do conservatives take everything in a manner to whic the President explains things off in the direction of Alpha Centauri, and not 'Down to Earth'? The President explained quite well how companies become successful: its by those that contribute to its success. I've worked in the SBA. I've met hundres if not thousands of business owners whom acknowledged to me that they didnt know how to do 'A, B, or C' things, but needed to know how. And when they obtain that knowledge, they were more successful. But if they didnt obtain the knowledge, would they have been as successful? Same with the products/services from the customer viewpoint. Most customers are not going to say....WHY....your product/service sucks, they'll just take their dollars else where. Some companies were so full of ego, that they believed they had the superior product, but to much ego to reconized (let alone admit) the attitude was causing them their business. Without a good product and/or service, why should a customer give money to that company? Those dollars help make the business what it is up to a point. How the management handles the money they have to create more money becomes key. Keeping an accurate picture of things internally (day to day operations within the company) and externally (how the company is viewed, stock prices, reaction within the community, etc) are skills one does not gain at birth. They are learned skills that take YEARS to fully aquire. And even after that, must be maintained and updated. The individual business owners are not just given this knowledge because they started a business. In fact, most of the business folks know their field but never trained on the business, legal, and financial elements that make a company successful. All in all, the President did a good job explaining a concept central to what make businesses successful in America. Its not his fault that his opponents are to under-educated to the point of being ignorant and foolish in slams against him. The more conservatives do this, the further they undermine the GOP's plans in November and beyond.

Yachtie -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 3:24:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I think this 'globalization' thing is entirely crap sometimes (just ask Joseph Stiglitz, econ Pulitzer awardee and former IMF Chief Economist), he'll tell you. He wouldn't be the only one. Then, there is always Krugman. But he has written another book saying that there is actually a good way to go about it, and therein lies my interest. Anything the press or think tanks tell you is completely false. Check out Debunking Economics: The Naked Emperor Dethroned?; Keen. Japan, as a country, has been in the economic dirt for over a decade, their national debt as % of GDP is far above what we have in the US. But the problem there is that the yen is still too strong vs. other currencies. Meanwhile, it's ridiculous how low the British Pound and the Euro have dived vs. the US $. No, I don't understand that and won't pretend to, other than to say that the money hawks have gone bonkers. Their panties all in the tightest knot about Greece and Portugal, as they act like Germany and France or Denmark or Sweden or Switzerland aren't even on the map. Yeah, 'global' thinkers, that lot. What Fcking twits. I wish I wasn't broke at this juncture, else I'd be buying all the Euro denominated (non-bank) corporate bonds I could get ahold of. The Euro is so silly cheap right now, but that isn't going to last forever.* Your right. It's probably going to go to zero. Enter the Mark, Franc, Lira, etc. It is coming. I'd prefer swapping some USD for AUS, BRL, CHF, CAD, NOK and perhaps even some GBP. In any event, European countries, the successful ones, have been doing for decades what all the US press and 'econ blogs' tell us will drive this country to ruin]. Metaphorically, destroying a Picasso in favor of a Renoir may be seen by some as ultimately a good thing. But destroy the Picasso one does. To the extent that Germany and France and Denmark and Sweden have fewer billionaires per capita than the US, I suppose we could recognize the 'ruination' from that standpoint. But the stats regarding national savings, debt as % of GDP, the current account balance, etc. tell a different story. Quite a different story, in fact. What say the 'econ blogs' about that? Quite a bit actually. But I'll leave it up to them.

joether -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 3:33:36 PM)
In which dimension other than this one do you do 100% of your business in, Yachtie. In trying to make an arguement to slam the President, you completely go the opposite direction of fundmentally held principles and concepts to Business 101. If you own a business, I have to seriously wonder, based on your 'view points' if those around keep you as a figure head with no real power. If businesses where to hold your beliefs, they would be out of commision quite rapidly.... quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie So, an employee is "helping" an employer by the simple fact of accepting employment for compensation. Actually that is the unstated reason for obtaining a job. Whether to scoop ice cream for a summer job, or be the principle person in charge of constructing the next US carrier for 2015. It is implied that the employee will do as the employer desires (within reason, safety, and legal issues), in exchange for an agree upon compensation. All those people at the Best Buy? They are all helping the bottom line. Some are just more motivated than others. Management Theory 202 states its up to the manager to find out what thing or things motivate an employee to do more for the company's benefit. Most people, do not react favoribly towards threats, which I suspect is your managing style. If an employee isnt doing as management wishs, its up to the management to figure out how to change the situtation for the better (letting the person go is often the last resort). quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie I've owned and operated a small business and never!, not even once, did I have a prospective employee state that their desire was to help me by accepting employment. If the employee has to do this, than lets be frank....your an idiot. Its implied without saying that the employee will do their share to help the business do well. You want them to be 'johnny on the spot', than your going to pay the 'johnny on the spot' cost. Or are you someone that demands someone gives you quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Actually, their desire was to provide for themselves and if anyone was offering anything that could be even remotely construed an offer of help it was me. Pot calling the kettle black! Do you do things for employees that cost your company above and beyond their normal stated compentation? Your personality, if this post of yours is to be believed, is the employees are all dead beats that do the bare minimal work for the maximuim profit. Sounds like management should have its style and skills improved on. Oh wait, isn't that the 'jist' of what the President stated that a business can grow and prosper by events and people that have a positive effect on it? quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Most of them had a minimum they wished to be paid. Then take only enough money from your business to pay for fixed personal costs. If your car is better than a 'junk heap', toss and get a junk heap. Cloths? Sorry, you have access to a 'thrift store' at best. Food? You dont get to eat out, get take out, or have anything better than that found in a MRE. Additional expenses and costs? Well, your not pocketing anything for retirement, you dont have any investments, nor could you afford to see the final Batman movie in the theater. Do all this, and THEN, you can state that. You bitch and moan once, your a hypocrit! People have a minimal level for a job to which they wish to be paid. Some are reasonable and some are not. But it is their decision to accept the job offer. Both sides have expectations that are real and not and only time will sort of the truths and facts. I suspect the employees take on an extra 10-15% if your going to be their direct manager. To deal with a manager that is a moron on business concepts. quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie It's quite akin to using a garage to fix your car. You're not there to help them. You're there to get your damn car fixed and there will be a bill attached. An in giving the mechanic money, did you end up helping them? Yes. Did you use the garage to fix your car? Yes. So it seems the normal acceptable practices of business that have been around for a few hundred years if not thousands are correct. But yet you dont look at it that way. Have news for ya.....your in the minority of one against a few billion that say otherwise. quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie The liberal thought process on this is massively idiotic. I swear, the liberal must think that people get ill so as to help a doctor's practice or a hospital, both being a business, somewhere. I mean, really, the doc could not conduct business without that massive help from their patients. And of course the doc got helped by their teachers. Didn't cost the doc much now, did it?[8\|] All those hours put in. And the residency!!! Lordy does that doc owe others for his success. You dont even know the definition of the word 'liberal'. Maybe you should check it to see if your using it correctly in this instance.... medical doctors has been helping patients for thousands of years. Well before the concept of the corporation or hospital was put into use. The doctors themselves were known under a wide variety of names. Without patients, there would be no doctors. The medical doctor, even after his training must....STILL....learn things. Do you really think most medical doctors operate in an educational vaccum AFTER they graduate? Every single year they have to learn new things. New drugs, new treatments, new bedside manners. They gain this immense knowledge from those around them. Some of the treatments we have today were not even a concept when doctors were graduating back in the 70's and 80's. So how did they aquire all this knowledge? quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Then there are bank loans. That too is construed as help by the liberal. Bank loans are the creation and advertisement for liberals? Are you sane? Bank loans have been around since BEFORE the United States of America existed. How can you even begin to argue that they are the creation of modern day (2012) liberals? Bank loans are the creation of.....BANKS. That's why they are called 'bank loans', Yachtie. A bank loan (much like a federal loan) is set up to help a company grow by providing needed capital up-front without giving control of the company to another entity. Most banks will desire to see what their giving money for, how things are set up (aka a business plan), and the conditions to pay the loan back. Bankers with any sense will desire their money be paid back in full and some are known to be....liberal....enough to help change the contract for both side's betterment. This concept has nothing to do with politics, let alone liberal politics. If loans were the tools of those evil liberals, than I'll just throw off my student loans. Cus only liberals go to college....... [:P] quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Need help and here come the banks. Oh!!! Should I mention their help comes at a price? So many got help from banks. Gives one such a warm fuzzy. But for so many it's 'help' they could never repay. AND THEY DIDN'T[:D] The banks reneged on their offer of help and foreclosed. Oh, that's right. There was a contract. Again, the liberal thought process on this is massively idiotic. I believe most who understand the business world, the concepts of business, and even hold common sense, will figure out, which entity is the 'massive idiot' of your post. I could explain it...

Edwynn -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 3:44:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn What say the 'econ blogs' about that? Quite a bit actually. But I'll leave it up to them. From what I'm seeing, all they talk about is Greeece or Portugal, and say something like "look what happened to Europe!" as if the whole continent is represented by those two countries. I'm not seeing any comment in those blogs about the superior economic numbers, superior health care systems (the highest cost of Norway's being out-costed in the US by 50%) or the better basic educational scores that is the case with the majority of the European countries, and I look for such things. It's what I do. They (the Euro countries) are all suffering from US deregulatory irresponsibility at present, but aside from being pestered relentlessly by the bond holder wimps they are muddling through better than the US. Ever heard of the notion of "exporting inflation"? We have certainly succeeded in exporting social irresponsibility, no question. Why they still haven't kicked out the rating agencies and Goldman Sachs (who all conspired in the Greek debt/currency swap swindle which brought about the debt crisis) is beyond me.

Yachtie -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 3:56:02 PM)
@joether post 106 unworthy of response. You're slow, joe.

Yachtie -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:05:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn From what I'm seeing, all they talk about is Greeece or Portugal, and say something like "look what happened to Europe!" as if the whole continent is represented by those two countries. I'm not seeing any comment in those blogs about the superior economic numbers, superior health care systems (the highest cost of Norway's being out-costed in the US by 50%) or the better basic educational scores that is the case with the majority of the European countries, and I look for such things. It's what I do. Well, there it is. Nothing I nor any econ blog you disagree with can do. Your mind is made up as you know what you want. That's fine. Read sites you agree with. quote: They are all suffering from US deregulatory irresponsibility at present, but aside from being pestered relentlessly by the bond holder wimps they are muddling through better than the US. We'll see about that. Sooner than later too would be my bet. quote: Ever heard of the notion of "exporting inflation"? We have certainly succeeded in exporting social irresponsibility, no question. Why they still haven't kicked out the rating agencies and Goldman Sachs (who all conspired in the Greek debt/currency swap swindle which brought about the debt crisis) is beyond me. Why many G-S, MS and even some government employees are not in jail is either quite visible or very murky. Choose. edit: As far as the EU goes, they're in a major pickle. Didn't have to be that way, but that's the way it is. I do not think there is an out (back to normalcy) for them. Germany will not carry the EU on its back forever. When Germany goes the EU is done. Merkel can only push so far.

Politesub53 -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:15:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie You're right. Looney tunes doesn't begin to cut it. I was way to kind. So was I, believe me bruv, so was I. Still no need for you to address the point and tell the class what would have happened to the banks without the TARPS from GWB huh. At least he managed to get that right.

Yachtie -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:16:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie You're right. Looney tunes doesn't begin to cut it. I was way to kind. So was I, believe me bruv, so was I. Still no need for you to address the point and tell the class what would have happened to the banks without the TARPS from GWB huh. At least he managed to get that right. Like hell he did.

Musicmystery -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:20:26 PM)
quote: Your mind is made up as you know what you want. That's fine. Read sites you agree with. Given the grossly twisted spin in your OP, this is laughable.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:24:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Obama - 'If you�ve got a business -- you didn�t build that. Somebody else made that happen' I'll remind the eatery I'm going to tonight of that. Nope, wasn't your risk of your capital. Nope, wasn't your knowledge. Nope, you had nothing to do with it but get lucky. Speaking at a campaign rally in Roanoke, Virginia on Friday night, Obama made the case that those who created businesses should be taxed at higher rates because they are fortunate and were helped to achieve success by the government and other people. 'There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me - because they want to give something back,' he said. 'They know they didn't - look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. 'You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. He also earlier today claimed in front of a vast group of black voters....(I'm paraphrasing...I don't have the actual quote) "we need to get the black vote out...we can't win without you". Imagine if any white candidate said "we need to get the white vote behind us". None would even dare. There are no black votes. No Norwegian votes. Only American votes. Anyone that claims otherwise is....well....if it's a black man....it's just not a racist comment is it?

Yachtie -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:27:31 PM)
Careful Lookie. Saying stuff like that on these boards will get you No Nookie.[:D]

Edwynn -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:27:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn From what I'm seeing, all they talk about is Greeece or Portugal, and say something like "look what happened to Europe!" as if the whole continent is represented by those two countries. I'm not seeing any comment in those blogs about the superior economic numbers, superior health care systems (the highest cost of Norway's being out-costed in the US by 50%) or the better basic educational scores that is the case with the majority of the European countries, and I look for such things. It's what I do. Well, there it is. Nothing I nor any econ blog you disagree with can do. Your mind is made up as you know what you want. That's fine. Read sites you agree with. Yes, well ... pardon me if I choose to go by what the OECD, The Bureauf of Economic Analysis (Commerce Dept.), The National Bureau of Economic Research, The Bureau of Labor Statistics, The Bank for International Settlements, the various academic econ journals etc. tell me, as opposed to some 'econ blog' writer who is too chickenshit to use his own name but rather goes by the name (w/avatar) of the lead alter ego character in the movie Fight Club. Silly me.

Musicmystery -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:28:59 PM)
They sure seem to think there are Christian votes and yes, white votes, male votes, female votes, age group votes, geographic votes, income votes....demographics.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:38:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Careful Lookie. Saying stuff like that on these boards will get you No Nookie.[:D] Ya ain't the first to tell me....I've been debating this whole "every race other than whites....every gender other than males is fucked and it's the white mans/governments/society's fault" for weeks. (Eventually they'll get that effort is the difference). And if they don't, or refuse to "get it"...hey, what the fuck...more for me.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:39:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn From what I'm seeing, all they talk about is Greeece or Portugal, and say something like "look what happened to Europe!" as if the whole continent is represented by those two countries. I'm not seeing any comment in those blogs about the superior economic numbers, superior health care systems (the highest cost of Norway's being out-costed in the US by 50%) or the better basic educational scores that is the case with the majority of the European countries, and I look for such things. It's what I do. Well, there it is. Nothing I nor any econ blog you disagree with can do. Your mind is made up as you know what you want. That's fine. Read sites you agree with. Yes, well ... pardon me if I choose to go by what the OECD, The Bureauf of Economic Analysis (Commerce Dept.), The National Bureau of Economic Research, The Bureau of Labor Statistics, The Bank for International Settlements, the various academic econ journals etc. tell me, as opposed to some 'econ blog' writer who is too chickenshit to use his own name but rather goes by the name (w/avatar) of the lead alter ego character in the movie Fight Club. Silly me. I believe (after all that) this is where you would then be predisposed to make your point.

Politesub53 -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:40:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 So was I, believe me bruv, so was I. Still no need for you to address the point and tell the class what would have happened to the banks without the TARPS from GWB huh. At least he managed to get that right. Like hell he did. Your four word reply hardly explains your stance. Tell me this, if the banks had been left to crash (As all the experts suggested, including the republicans in Bush`s treasury) and that eneded up in you losing all your cash, or your house etc. Then who would you have blamed ? I suspect your half arsed reply will be "It wouldnt have happened" Edited to fix quotes

LookieNoNookie -> RE: O and the Entrepreneur (7/17/2012 4:42:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery They sure seem to think there are Christian votes and yes, white votes, male votes, female votes, age group votes, geographic votes, income votes....demographics. Of course. And until we all agree that there is no such things as racism, genderism, whateverism (because we refuse to participate) and simply vote based on what we believe to be true, not because they're a woman, black or Muslim.... It will continue, unabated. And it will sell. (Unabated).

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