Pros, Some food science answers?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Pros, Some food science answers?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Pros, Some food science answers?

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 5:43:17 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

OK, I am looking all over and dont seem to be getting an answer to a simple question.

Say I dont want to use wheat flour, but all oatmeal flour, now my problem is no gluten.

But thats ok, I can buy gluten by itself.

The question becomes, for cookies and muffins and the like, how much gluten would I add per some measure of oat flour to have the same gluten content as baking flour?

I cant seem to find that answer, and I have looked pretty hard, is there anyone can help me with this?

Then you can go back to your fucking and sucking and whatever it is you do, I promise.

Thanks

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

Post #: 1

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 5:55:23 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

I don't quite understand your question, I sometimes replace regular flour with oat flour because it's healthier and the baked goods last longer. The taste is also quite nice though it tends to be a bit more chewy and moist. The only difference in baking is that I use slightly less sugar (or honey) because the oat flour is sweeter and up the liquid content a bit because it absorbs more moisture.

I thought the benefit of using oats is that they are gluten free (in case they aren't grown near a wheat field or milled in a factory that also uses regular flour), why would you want to add gluten?

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 2

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 6:04:08 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

Sounds like he's avoiding the wheat, not the gluten, so wants to add gluten back in to improve the texture.

Ron - is there directions on the package of gluten?

How to Add Gluten to Flour

Gluten is a protein found in wheat, barley and rye. It adds elasticity to bread dough and absorbs moisture to add structure and make the finished product moist, and fluffy. White bread flour has more gluten than whole wheat, which is why whole wheat breads tend to be denser and more crumbly. Other flours, such as rye and all-purpose wheat also have lower gluten contents and tend to make drier, more crumbly breads. However, you can increase the gluten content by adding vital wheat gluten to your flour.

1 Add the vital wheat gluten on a per-recipe basis and not to the entire bag of flour. The standard gluten/flour ratio is 1 tbsp. (15 ml) for every 2 to 3 cups (473 ml to 711 ml) of flour.

2 Mix in the vital wheat gluten before you add the other dry ingredients once you have determined how to add gluten to flour.

Add your flour to a bowl, add the gluten and mix it together with a fork or pour it into a sifter and sift it into a fresh bowl.

3 Combine your wet ingredients per the instructions in your bread recipe.

Once you have mixed the gluten into the flour you can use it as you would any other flour.

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 3

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 6:26:44 AM

SlipSlidingAway

Posts: 223
Joined: 11/24/2006
Status: offline

I do a lot of low carb cooking, but I am certainly no food scientist. I have just done research and experimented a lot. If I was better at math formulas, it might help some, but I can't tell you how to calculate the replacement. I can, however, throw out some facts and hope someone with better math skills can give you a formula that will help you calculate your answer by plugging the numbers in for a given recipe.

Gluten needs to replace the protein portion of the originally called for flour. Unfortunately, protein content is not usually found on flour labels (although sometimes you can find them for a s specific brand with a Google search). The nutritional analysis on a package will tell you, however, how many grams of protein are in a serving (be aware they do round to the nearest number, which could effect the finished product).

Pure gluten flour is very high in protein. For a 30g serving (1/4 cup), it can contain up to 23g of protein. Again, different manufacturers have different protein contents so you need to check your labels. Knowing this, if you replaced the portion of oat flour you are using with the same amount of gluten flour to get to the desired percentage it **should** work.

I am a less scientific baker, more a tweaker, and I go with a lot of trial and error. Personally, I tend to use 1 Tbs per cup ratio when trying to approximate AP flour. It was the amount suggested by an accomplished low carb baker; I can't tell you how she arrived at that number, but I can tell you that with my ingredients it's usually satisfactory. However, it's not 100% full proof. I have had some flops, but since I am also usually replacing sugar with other options, I don't know what contributes more to the failure of a given recipe. That said, I use a variety of nut and alternative flours; so, it might be quite different than when using oatmeal flour (which is too carby for me).

Also, not sure how much baking you do, but if you are familiar with the batter texture that you usually get with a certain recipe, it's helpful. I have often found I need additional liquid (in small amounts) using any pure gluten flour. The stuff can suck up a lot of moisture in a recipe. Another tip, when you add the gluten flour, whisk it with the oat flour before adding other ingredients, it will incorporate better.

Good luck!

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 4

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 9:48:15 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

I have had some flops, but since I am also usually replacing sugar with other options, I don't know what contributes more to the failure of a given recipe.

Are these breads with yeast as opposed to "quick" breads with baking soda/powder?

http://www.joyofbaking.com/Yeast.html

In order for yeast to become very active it needs food. It's favorite food is sugar, simple sugars to be precise (glucose and fructose). Some recipes call for adding granulated white sugar which the yeast will break down into its simpler form. But in some bread recipes where sugar is not used, flour can be added to the warm liquid and the yeast will break down some of the starch in the flour to a simple sugar.

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to SlipSlidingAway)

Post #: 5

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 9:49:24 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

My biggest flop was using all rye flour. What a brick that created!

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 6

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 9:58:56 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I am making oatmeal raisin cookies and blueberry oatmeal creamcheese muffins, I would like to use all oat flour (if possible) and need the gluten to hang it together, no other reason or I would use liquid nails or some other construction adhesive that tastes good.

Oh, hell yeah, I am gonna use butter, its just oatmeal should be good for you right, so why bother if you can make all oatmeal and gluten, cuz I can make white bread separate.

Then one day its gonna be apple turnovers .

You the american people have the right to know. I am not a cook!!!!

Tricky Ron

BTW, later we will need some potato hints for lefse.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/31/2012 9:59:48 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 7

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 10:33:19 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

I am intrigued by your peculiar food experiments, Ron!

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 8

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:07:55 AM

kitkat105

Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/29/2011
From: Eating dutch crunch in the Silicon Valley
Status: offline

Me too! They sound delicious. Do you need testers as apart of your food science experiment?

_____________________________

"WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS!"

Odeen's spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down

Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags

Secretary - ProSubs"R"Us

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 9

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:11:48 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Yes, but ask around what I mean: It has to pass thru a couple systems first.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to kitkat105)

Post #: 10

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:33:09 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

I'm curious as to why you are using oatmeal instead of wheat (?)

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 11

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:37:02 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

Based on anecdotal experience only (though extensive anecdotal experience), kalikshama's stats sound great for yeast breads, and I can assume they would translate fairly well to non yeast baked goods.

If you can find an old fashioned sifter to sift the oatmeal and the vita gluten together, before you add your wet ingredients for the non-yeast baked goods, that would be ideal. They need to be mixed extremely well, and if you are not kneading (as in making muffins or cookies) that will not happen sufficiently.

_____________________________

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 12

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:37:13 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I like oatmeal. Dont like wheat. You are spinning the mixer too fast, pull over.....

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 13

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:43:57 AM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
The question becomes, for cookies and muffins and the like, how much gluten would I add per some measure of oat flour to have the same gluten content as baking flour?

I cant seem to find that answer, and I have looked pretty hard, is there anyone can help me with this?

Kalikshama answered the question about vital wheat gluten, which you can buy at the grocery store in the same aisle where you buy the oat flour.

Incidently, xantham gum or guar gum (both naturally derived stabilizers containing NO gluten) can also be used. You can buy xanthum gum at the grocery store, in the same place as vital wheat gluten and other specialty flours. The back of the bag should tell you how much to add per cup of gluten-free flour.

In general:
1 tsp xanthum or guar gum per cup of gluten free flour for breads and pizzas.
1/2 tsp " " for cakes and muffins.
1/2 tsp or less " " for cookies.

You can make very decent pastries using xanthum gum.

Looking it over, that's nearly the same ratio as the one kalikshama gave for adding vital wheat gluten. There are 3 teaspoons in a tablespoon, so it would still be 1 to 1.5 teaspoons vital wheat gluten per cup of gluten free flour. For breads (which need more gluten) I would use 1.5 tsp vital wheat gluten per cup, and for pastries 1 teaspoon per cup.

Pam

_____________________________

[link] www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlvDnbFOkYY [/link]

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 14

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:50:08 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

I'm completely baffled now, a few weeks ago I used just oatmeal and oats for blueberry muffins, no gluten and they turned out alright, was that just a fluke? They were a bit heavier than regular muffins (after eating a small one you felt like having had 2 big regular muffins), didn't use any "glue" but I used more baking powder and more bicarbonate (wrong spoon).

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 15

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:51:43 AM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I like oatmeal. Dont like wheat.

You are weird.

If you are avoiding wheat, why not pick up a gluten free baking book? They have them at Borders for very cheap, in the economy book aisle. Gluten free flours (such as oat flour, rice flour, etc.) can usually be substituted for each other. Also, if you prefer vital wheat gluten to gum stabilizers, you can simply omit the xanthum gum and stabilize the dough by using the ratio of vital wheat gluten to flour that kalikshama gave.

Pam

_____________________________

[link] www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlvDnbFOkYY [/link]

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 16

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:53:08 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I dunno, but they keep having all these recipies mix in wheat flour for gluten, I guess I could try it without.

Thats why I am here talking to the folks that do this.

Cuz Master don't know, and ain't gonna beat you for your opinions today.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 17

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:54:05 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

I'm completely baffled now, a few weeks ago I used just oatmeal and oats for blueberry muffins, no gluten and they turned out alright, was that just a fluke? They were a bit heavier than regular muffins (after eating a small one you felt like having had 2 big regular muffins), didn't use any "glue" but I used more baking powder and more bicarbonate (wrong spoon).

I suspect gluten content is more relevant for yeast breads than quick breads, which don't rise nearly as much as a percentage of volume.

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 18

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:55:21 AM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I'm completely baffled now, a few weeks ago I used just oatmeal and oats for blueberry muffins, no gluten and they turned out alright, was that just a fluke? They were a bit heavier than regular muffins (after eating a small one you felt like having had 2 big regular muffins), didn't use any "glue" but I used more baking powder and more bicarbonate (wrong spoon).

Gluten is more important for bread an less important for pastries. Adding gluten (or xanthum gum) would have lightened the texture. If you put eggs in them, that also provided "glue".

Pam

_____________________________

[link] www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlvDnbFOkYY [/link]

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 19

RE: Pros, Some food science answers? - 7/31/2012 11:57:39 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

I often subsittute oatmeal for flour in recipes, just b/c I don't like cooked oatmeal as a breakfast cereal, but I like baked oatmeal, like in cookies or muffins. My general substitution is half and half. In other words if the recipe calls for 2 cups flour, I used 1 cup flour, 1 cup oatmeal. I also sub up to 1/4 wheat germ, if I am using white flour for some reason, like texture or taste.

I think that kind of an easy substitution would work fine for what you are baking. The wheat germ will add a nuttty and very slightly chewy taste. I also sub honey for sugar, and I assume that helps them bind better.

If your baked goods are still falling apart, perhaps you are not adhering to some basic cooling rules. Cookies should be removed to a wire rack to cool, 15-20 minutes. Do this immediately unless the recipe says otherwise.

Muffins: If you are not using the lil paper cups, score around the outside of each with a butter knife, and let cool 2-3 minutes before you remove from baking pan, then let cool 10-15 minutes on a wire rack.

Hope this helps.

_____________________________

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Pros, Some food science answers?

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.102