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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/9/2012 7:26:46 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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Hi LadyPact
I don't have FL so I can't view the photos--don't really care to--I've taken care of enough patients with burns--there are few things that are more horrible and life-changing than burn injuries.

Getting back to your original question--why? It's not a a question of: Did you use x device/type of wax vs y? I worked as a DM for many, many years--it was a job that I took very seriously--when it was my time to work a shift, I didn't chat with friends, watch just the hot scenes or stop in the kitchen and eat cheese cubes--I made rounds through the dungeons, watched every scene and kept tabs on who was doing what & where.

I knew almost all of the regular players, knew who played heavy, and if I saw something that I wasn't comfortable with, I brought the club owner over to weigh in before I stopped the action. (in a few cases, I had to intervene to prevent immediate bad consequences) Everyone here has a certain amount of responsibility--including those watching.

I worked at least 2-3 play parties a month--they averaged anywhere from 40 pp to 200pp and not once did we ever have anyone go to the ED with an injury they sustained at our dungeons. We did TONS of educational workshops on safety and skillsets. To do any skill, typically you went to a workshop, often found a mentor who would co-top or show you how, and then you'd practice before play.

Didn't matter if the topic was wax, needles, or bondage--the focus was always on safety. I do blame the internet to a certain degree--did folks make poor decisions before the web? of course they did...but now, with social media and sharing your latest "conquests" online, I do see a certain degree of "how heavy can we get to impress everyone with how heavy we can get". It's a fucking pissing contest, and it needs to stop before more people get hurt because of the inexperience and ineptitude of others.

(in reply to TNDommeK)
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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/9/2012 7:55:48 PM   
LanaDeVille


Posts: 209
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Lana, you are quite correct. Neither of these participants were of the younger set. Thank you for bringing that up.

I asked Myself the same question about the public play space. Had I seen some twit with birthday candles, I would have had a WTF moment. From Maria's posts, I gather they are made differently here than across the pond. Maybe this is the bad information that contributed to this event?

It's not so much why does this happen. It's more why, in this day and age when so much information is available, does this have to happen? I can't see it. I've tried. I just can't.


I suppose I say you're welcome then.
Even though it kinda feels silly because I feel like you're the one who gave me the compliment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy
Didn't matter if the topic was wax, needles, or bondage--the focus was always on safety. I do blame the internet to a certain degree--did folks make poor decisions before the web? of course they did...but now, with social media and sharing your latest "conquests" online, I do see a certain degree of "how heavy can we get to impress everyone with how heavy we can get". It's a fucking pissing contest, and it needs to stop before more people get hurt because of the inexperience and ineptitude of others.


Part of me wants to blame the internet, but I've actually found it useful. I Googled "wax play" just a moment ago, and the top links will say straight out that paraffin is the recommended way to go. I think some people just aren't good researchers and don't know how to find information. One has to check multiple sources regardless of the topic for the sake of accuracy. Is some random blog article written by someone with two subscribers the place to get your intel from? Probably not. But if that information lines up with an informational BDSM website written by educators, then the validity has increased.

People just gotta learn to use their heads.
I try hard not to make mistakes like that. I've made goofy mistakes (like dropping an item), but nothing dangerous. Unless laughter is harmful.

< Message edited by LanaDeVille -- 8/9/2012 7:58:21 PM >

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/9/2012 8:01:46 PM   
LanaDeVille


Posts: 209
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

quote:

ORIGINAL: LanaDeVille

I really wish people wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the younger age group had anything to do with this. I work at a store. I've yet to see a younger person even touch 50 Shades, it's mostly older women in their thirties and forties. Also, most of the people around my age that claim to be into BDSM seem mostly interested in internet wanking. The few that I've seen take that leap to real-time seem to make an effort to educate themselves. It is sad though, nonetheless.

I'm a bit confused though about how it happened if both people were in a public space like that though. I feel like someone would have noticed. Stupid things happen. But they seem less likely to happen when there's someone else present. More eyes keeping a look out and all that jazz.


I would say probably because every single time He logs onto collarme and reads journals, he sees some 19 or 20 year old writing about how they tried the things they read in 50 shades of grey; or he sees where some person has really hurt their partner beating the shit out of their special pink parts because they read that Christian Grey did it. Those would be the people he would be referring to. At the time I showed him the pic only, he had no idea the ages or any other info. Neither did I. But as stated above, I am glad they have learned from this.


I took into consideration what you said, but I was partially referring to some of the snarky people on Fetlife. This is the kinda stuff bitter anti-TNG group people love to lap up.

< Message edited by LanaDeVille -- 8/9/2012 8:02:22 PM >

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/9/2012 8:18:21 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I think it's more the fact that some just think all candles are alike and do not even realize there are different types of wax and that each kind has a different melting temp. Just like some people don't know that not all rope will tie or knot the same way and stuff like that. They don't research because of those thoughts. No one ever told them differently and they are usually the same people who always say when asked about what book they last read and they say, "I don't like to read".


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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/9/2012 10:35:11 PM   
TNDommeK


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Status: offline 		Ah, I rarely frequent FL, I have a profile there, but am not really sure how to use that site as well as this one.

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/9/2012 11:04:43 PM   
another1harder


Posts: 112
Joined: 3/11/2012
Status: offline 		Those photos have so many things wrong. Gross negligence, senselessness, and more. Cannot watch Jackass movies either.

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/10/2012 3:15:17 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

(Do we, as a community do enough for education? Perhaps not.)


[/color]


I'm very glad you did start the thread LadyPact. The more this sort of information gets passed around the better. Its this sort of thing that sticks in peoples minds.

I can only speak for the UK but my answer is a firm 'NO' we do not have enough of the right sort of education over here. We have workshops on just about everything. Our problem (the UK I mean) is, there is no governing body monitoring who does the workshops and seminars. Anyone can profess to be an expert. Anyone can open and run a workshop. I am a trained piercer and I started doing workshops on play piercing many years ago (in the days when needle play was almost unheard of) I hate the word expert but I was and I say was because I don't do it anymore, recognized and respected over here when it comes to play piercing. One of the reasons I stopped doing it is because a few people who attended my classes were running their own workshops within weeks of putting their first needle in. Not only were they insufficiently experienced but they were using my name as the person who had trained them!!

I have been out and about on the scene for too many years to count and I have seen huge changes, especially in the last few years. The competition to do something new is huge but because just about everything safe has already been tried, we are now starting to see more and more unsafe play.
A while ago I wrote an article on here about a question asked on another site. The question was, 'Where is the safest place for my Dom to stab me?'. Actually the question didn't surprise me but the answers alarmed me. One guy suggested the stomach or any soft area of the body but no more than 2 inches!!. Another said that he always started by stabbing through the hands!

People bump off each other. On FL we have every section imaginable and some of those sections are darn right disturbing. Just because a load of people who want to stab each other find themselves in a collective group on the internet doesn't make it right. It makes it dangerous.
As far as I'm concerned, a lot of this is way beyond BDSM because of the permanent harm and imminent danger its putting people under.

In my day I was known as a real hardcore player but I'm a frigging marshmallow compared to some people I've seen!

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/10/2012 6:36:07 AM   
kalikshama


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Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Had I seen some twit with birthday candles, I would have had a WTF moment. From Maria's posts, I gather they are made differently here than across the pond. Maybe this is the bad information that contributed to this event?


Several people on the thread posted pictures of their own non-disastrous birthday candle play. The two differences I saw was that the candles were upright and not burned down - probably blown out immediately after the picture was taken. The flame in this case was angled and much closer to the skin and IIRC, the candles were allowed to burn down.

I think Chatte's "cool pic for Fet" and Haus's "pissing content" theories did contribute to this incident.

I have some thought on the DM situation too, which I'm going to have to save until I get back.

ETA - I see MariaB is thinking about this too so will add to her thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_4200944/tm.htm



< Message edited by kalikshama -- 8/10/2012 6:37:35 AM >

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/10/2012 11:45:42 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Personally I found the most reprehensible things in the entire scenario to be two fold:

1-You let a brain damaged woman play with someone. Really? That's like giving a blind person the keys to the car and setting them loose on the freeway. You might not when the disaster is gonna happen, but it's a damn safe bet that sooner or later one's gonna occur. Utterly irresponsible, maybe criminally so.

2-Even worse, they didn't take the victim to the ER. There were some comments about wanting too, but the slave resisted.
Resisted?
Like WTF?
How callously negligent can one be.
That's a slave. Order the piece of meat to go and if it won't obey, call the para's.
That was my cunt I'da dragged her there kicking and screaming by it's hair, telling it the whole time I was doing so because I loved her and really cared.
It's one thing to fuck up a judgement call (Letting a brain damaged person play with another-hell, teaching a brain damaged person TO play), it's not helped by making a dumb dumb error in play, but to not own up to the responsibility of making sure the victim gets proper medical treatment is beyond contemptible in my book.
And that's on the whole fucking "family"

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/10/2012 12:24:20 PM   
Moonlightmaddnes


Posts: 958
Joined: 6/4/2012
Status: offline 		It must have been the flames since I have spilled candle wax from both birthday candles and scented candles on myself many times. Sure it hurt but it did not actually burn me. One time the glass bulb was very hot when I picked it up and I spilled the wax all down my arm. It freaking hurt all right but I did not get those kinds of burns. It was just a bit red.

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/10/2012 1:13:39 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		What was the brain damage?
One of my best friends is a fantastic Domme but 7 years ago she was in a cycling accident and ended up in a coma and brain damage. Her recovery was slow and frustrating but as soon as she was able she was back to her old sadistic self. She still has brain damage but its not the sort of damage that would disrupt or endanger the way she plays.

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/10/2012 1:15:31 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Maria, I'm glad I did, too. That's what the net is supposed to be, right. The information super highway. (PS, loved the thread you started that came from this one.)

To hausboy and kalikshama...... Yes. This scene absolutely could have been done safely. Different angle and different wax. Such little things could have made the difference.

Kana, you know I'm with you. I can't say I'm thrilled with the "family" at this point, either. The person who posted about this whole thing has now "friended" the top responsible. Friend? Somebody should have just been grateful that I didn't kill their dumb ass. I told clip that crap yesterday and he flipping laughed because he knows My protective streak. Can you really see yourself saying that it was ok now because the other party said they were sorry? That wouldn't cut it in My book.


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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/10/2012 7:27:04 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

What was the brain damage?
One of my best friends is a fantastic Domme but 7 years ago she was in a cycling accident and ended up in a coma and brain damage. Her recovery was slow and frustrating but as soon as she was able she was back to her old sadistic self. She still has brain damage but its not the sort of damage that would disrupt or endanger the way she plays.

The gal who topped the scene came on, put up a post, said she had brain damage and since then. had "blank spots" where she couldn't account for either her behavior during those times or anything that happened in them.
Now I dunno bout you, but I'm never ever letting a gal with that condition play with anyone I care about...and I don't know what kind of "family" would encourage or teach such a person to play.
It's akin to giving a 6 year old a gun and setting them loose on an unsuspecting public....

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/10/2012 7:30:03 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Can you really see yourself saying that it was ok now because the other party said they were sorry? That wouldn't cut it in My book.
[/color]


Not in mine either. I'd be like, "We can see exactly how sorry of a domme you are."
I cut no slack on some shit and callous disregard for safety is one of those things


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"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Why does this happen? - 8/10/2012 7:32:25 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		If I was the person that was hurt I would be requesting the other party to help pay the expenses of the medical bills that would be incurred. I'm surprised no one has brought this up.


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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/11/2012 3:44:14 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks Kana, I wonder if the family knew about this brain damage before the incident. Who did the needles belong to? It sounds to me like the sub brought everything along for someone else to use on her. She brought the wrong sort of needles. Instead of bringing diabetic needles that would of stood upright on the skin she brought regular ones that would have to lay against the skin. She picked a new Domme to put needles in her back and that has to be the biggest WTF??? It seems her family were happy for her to go off and play like this. Where were they, who was monitoring/protecting a potentially dangerous situation? They were playing with needles (blood play) and fire and in any good club would of had a DM standing by protecting such a scene and making sure safety elements were in place. Where was that back up? The burns were second degree and wouldn't of looked anything like what they did on the picture before they became infected. They became infected because the injured and her family didn't take care of the burns which should included going to hospital. The new Domme had brain damage and memory black spots. She can't now use that as an excuse if she hadn't already forewarned the family.
This whole thing from start to finish was one big incident pit.

I would have to forgive her. I mean, I know I would be initially very angry to begin with but I just can't find the part where its all the Dommes fault? There were so many people to blame here, she was just the one who held the implements that caused the harm.
This woman has had to learn a huge ugly lesson the hard way. The burn victim has physical scars but huge support and sympathy and the Domme has mental scars along with a whole load of hatred and venom. I know which person I would rather be!

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/11/2012 7:53:27 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

This whole thing from start to finish was one big incident pit.


To quote Arthur Fonzarelli" Exactamundo.

To be straight up, I don't know how experienced either the domme or sub are, but we do know that a "family", supposedly led by an "experienced domme" was teaching a brain damaged person capable of blackouts at any time to do scenes with bound folk.
They're the ones I hold most culpable. They're the ones who are supposed to be experienced guides and the adults in the room.
Way, way too often I see the blind leading the moronic, dispensing awful information (Usually out of ego) with little to no regard of how unsafe such concepts are.
Now by nature I'm kinda a rational anarchist so if folk wanna do stupid shit, that's fine by me, just cleans the gene pool AFAIC, but when people place themselves in positions of self imposed "authority" and "expertise" I hold them accountable-they asked for the responsibility-well here it is.

And don't even get me started on the collective "family" failure to get the victim (carefully chosen word there)medical help. That's beyond reprehensible into criminal, or at least tort type, neglect
Based only on the facts presented, which admittedly is far from a complete picture, I think all involved should lose their prized One Twue Dom Union cards and be forced to attend all future play parties dressed in sparkling pink spandex, dressed like the tooth fairy.
Why?
I dunno, but hopefully it's humbling having to explain the costume over and over again for decades.

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/11/2012 11:38:03 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Based only on the facts presented, which admittedly is far from a complete picture, I think all involved should lose their prized One Twue Dom Union cards and be forced to attend all future play parties dressed in sparkling pink spandex, dressed like the tooth fairy.
Why?
I dunno, but hopefully it's humbling having to explain the costume over and over again for decades.


I like the way you think

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/11/2012 1:10:22 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		How can you scare me spitless, Kana, and still make me adore you???

it must be teh kittehs....

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RE: Why does this happen? - 8/11/2012 1:13:41 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I wonder the same thing.

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