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no part of either - 8/15/2012 9:19:18 AM

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Copyright © 2012 by LewRockwell.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit is given.

The Only Choice on November 6th
by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.

The critical problem we face today is the same one all mankind has faced: the State, those monopolists who claim the right to break the laws that they make and enforce. How to restrain them is the critical problem of all sound political thinking. Making matters worse, this gang now has a monopoly on the money and the ability to print it, and they are abusing that power at our expense.

How does voting change the situation? Neither of the candidates for president wants to do anything about the problem. On the contrary, they want to make it worse. This is for a reason. The State owns the “democratic process” as surely as it owns the Departments of Labor and Defense and uses it in ways that benefit the State and no one else.

On the other hand, we do have the freedom not to vote. No one has yet drafted us into the voting booth. I suggest that we exercise this right not to participate. It is one of the few rights we have left. Nonparticipation sends a message that we no longer believe in the racket they have cooked up for us, and we want no part of it.

You might say that this is ineffective. But what effect does voting have? It gives them what they need most: a mandate. Nonparticipation helps deny that to them. It makes them, just on the margin, a bit more fearful that they are ruling us without our consent. This is all to the good. The government should fear the people. Not voting is a good beginning toward instilling that fear.

This year especially there is no lesser of two evils. There is socialism or fascism. The true American spirit should guide every voter to have no part of either.

August 15, 2012

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

RE: no part of either - 8/15/2012 11:20:03 AM

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So where do you stand on this, Yachtie?

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: no part of either - 8/15/2012 11:38:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
So where do you stand on this, Yachtie?

I fully agree with Lew.

The State owns the “democratic process” as surely as it owns the Departments of Labor and Defense and uses it in ways that benefit the State and no one else.

I have been aware of this for some time now. At least since the early 90s though I had inklings much earlier. I have not voted since '94. Not all governments are equal. I hope people recognize that.

People think government is a tool to achieve some good. People feel good believing that. People are wrong. Government knows the people are the tool to serve its own ends. History proves that out. Government is like fire, fearful when not controlled. Today governments are out of control. Problem with fire is that once out of control only two thing can be done. Let it keep consuming till there is nothing left to consume or put it out completely.

Choose any government program / agency you like. Name it and bar none. Examine it and you will find that ultimately it benefits government if for nothing else but having power over those who partake of its largess.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: no part of either - 8/15/2012 12:11:57 PM

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Yeah, like any of us believe you would not vote, agreeing with this B.S., and allow President Obama a second term in office. You've been against the President on a number of things on previous threads. So it is very unlikely you will not vote to 'send a message', given your out-spokeness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
The State owns the “democratic process” as surely as it owns the Departments of Labor and Defense and uses it in ways that benefit the State and no one else.

Actually that would be the federal goverment that controls the Departments of Labor and Defense. And yes, the federal goverment controls the method and process of elections (as decided by amendments, bills, or acts by Congress) to a well known document called the US Constitution. This document (and the process to it) has helped multiple hundreds of Americans since its creation. It has benefits quite a number of people from one end of the political spectrum to the other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
People think government is a tool to achieve some good. People feel good believing that. People are wrong. Government knows the people are the tool to serve its own ends. History proves that out. Government is like fire, fearful when not controlled. Today governments are out of control. Problem with fire is that once out of control only two thing can be done. Let it keep consuming till there is nothing left to consume or put it out completely.

Seriously.....you should go seek a mental/emotional health profession asap!

That said, this 'rant' of yours is of someone that is a 'few clowns short of a full circus'. Because of the US Goverment, many people from many walks of life, education, age, skin color, religions and oh yes, sexual orientation, have benefitted. Because of the US Goverment, we have some really amazing places to see, and a kick-ass military! I dont have to show my 'papers' just to cross a state border (unless its Arizona it seems....). The only folks I see as being as you put it 'out of control' are those within the Republican Party. We get a few of them on this board that bash the President of the United States over very petty things on a routine basis. They are the ones that not only started the fires that your bitching about, but help fan them as much as possible to reach 'out-of-control'. All the while, using the smoke to distract Americans into believing its the Democrat's fault.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Choose any government program / agency you like. Name it and bar none. Examine it and you will find that ultimately it benefits government if for nothing else but having power over those who partake of its largess.

This will come as a total surprise to you; the US Goverment is 'Of the People, By the People, For the People'! So if I get Mass Health, it helps me through what ever illness I may encounter without worrying how I will pay for long-term care. By NOT going into medical bankruptcy, I help the nation out. I know quite a few folks that have benefitted greatly by joining the US Armed Forces. And I know folks that have done quite a bit of business with the US Goverment in their companies. Allows their companies to grow, hire more people and have good 'Returns on Investments'.

You really have no clue what your babbling with this B.S. material. Dont vote, but tell all of us here that you didnt vote. That way when there's a political discussion on a topic, we know to ignore you because.....you had the chance to vote....and you pissed it away.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: no part of either - 8/15/2012 1:45:38 PM

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Sorry, Yachtie, but not voting isn't going to do a damn thing to negate a "mandate." Recall that President Obama claimed a mandate after getting elected. He had just under 53% of the vote. With estimates ranging from 60% to 61.7%, voter turnout was the highest ever, but still only gives Obama a maximum of 32.7% of the the eligible votes (32.7% of the estimated number of eligible voters). Not exactly a mandate.

Fewer people voting might send the losing party on a mission for 4 years from now, but it won't make any impact on mandates.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: no part of either - 8/15/2012 2:06:16 PM

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Not voting only solves one thing, how long I have to wait in line at the polls....aside from that, it shows a lack of caring to have any voice in your own future.

I vote in a heavily Red state which means my vote doesn't really mean a lot in Presidential elections, but it's my voice one way or the other.

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: no part of either - 8/15/2012 7:09:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I vote in a heavily Red state which means my vote doesn't really mean a lot in Presidential elections, but it's my voice one way or the other.

Pretty much the same, here in deep blue CA, but there are always other matters on the ballot, where I want my say.

(in reply to SilverMark)

RE: no part of either - 8/15/2012 9:09:02 PM

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I was once heavily involved in my union. It really hacked me off when co workers would bitch about what our local was doing but you never saw them at a union meeting. silvermark is right. Either vote or keep your yap shut..

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: no part of either - 8/15/2012 9:12:57 PM

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If you don't vote, then STFU.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to servantforuse)

RE: no part of either - 8/15/2012 9:40:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

This will come as a total surprise to you; the US Goverment is 'Of the People, By the People, For the People'!

You really have no clue what your babbling with this B.S. material. Dont vote, but tell all of us here that you didnt vote. That way when there's a political discussion on a topic, we know to ignore you because.....you had the chance to vote....and you pissed it away.

what are you smokin?

you will convince me its of and by the people the very second you can name just one fucking amendment that you or your daddy or your grand daddy or your great granddaddy EVER FUCKING GOT THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON.

it never ceases to amaze me how you people sing that same tired fucking mantra when the most simple and obvious shit proving you wrong is right there in your face

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/15/2012 9:43:09 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to joether)

RE: no part of either - 8/15/2012 10:35:28 PM

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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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After reading the OP, I had the sensation that the wool had finally been pulled from my eyes.

Every word of it has the unmistakable feeling of truth deeply embedded in it, the message resoundingly tells us what is wrong. My eduction, designed and financed by the Govt from kindergarten to tertiary level, kept this hidden from me. The so-called free media has refused to publish this truth. My shrink told me I was suffering from paranoia but he's a fully fledged Govt employee so I now know on which side his bread is buttered.

People who have tried to bring this truth to public attention have been ruthlessly silenced by a pernicious vindictive Govt out to save it's own neck. It's no surprise that no one has ever heard of Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr. and it's unlikely any one will ever hear from him again. Heaven help those who dare expose the evil conniving Govt, a fate worse than death awaits them.

So I'm packing my guns, lots of ammo and heading for the hills. Cave-dwelling is the only safe place left for God fearing folk. It might be back to the Stone Age. It might be the end of running water, electricity and socialised medicine - but it's freedom! Ain't no gubmint gonna gets its paws on me ever again. Yee-haw!

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/15/2012 10:41:32 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

RE: no part of either - 8/16/2012 6:25:37 AM

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fr

(CNSNews.com) – The Labor Department announced on Monday that it will be awarding almost $100 million in grant funding to states to prevent layoffs by allowing businesses to pay employees as part-time workers and the federal government will pick up the tab for the cost of a full-time paycheck.

100 million is peanuts. But 100 million is 100 million, and subsidizing is subsidizing. That which is subsidized shall vote for its continuance. Remember, never, but never, bite the hand that feeds you.

VOTE! It's your right.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: no part of either - 8/16/2012 11:24:47 AM

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Here's my position at this moment. I don't want either of them. Period.

I've determined that I'm going to put my vote elsewhere. When I've voiced that decision, I've been told that I might as well not vote.

And honestly, I'd hold someone that chooses not to vote in higher esteem than someone that votes even if they don't believe in the candidate, simply because they're a Democrat or Republican.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: no part of either - 8/16/2012 11:31:14 AM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
So where do you stand on this, Yachtie?

I have not voted since '94. Not all governments are equal. I hope people recognize that.

So you've stilled your own tongue. To quote Heinlien "Of course the game is rigged".

Non-voting is what those who would have power over you would prefer you do.

If every voter tried to stay abreast of the issues and voted for the best compromise, our government would work. You can't have one party say that their #1 goal is to stymie the other side.

Edited4Spelling

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 8/16/2012 11:35:34 AM >

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: no part of either - 8/16/2012 12:30:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5
Non-voting is what those who would have power over you would prefer you do.

I must disagree. It's the act of voting which legitimatizes their power, even when one's own preferred candidate loses. That's democracy. If one must set aside one's principles and vote for the lesser of two evils what then of one's principles? Setting aside one's principles is the true act of a coward.

The problem is not government per se but what it has become. For example, it's not like we're voting within the Roman Republic but the Empire. And the two choices are Caligula and Nero. Remember, there is no ballot choice for None Of The Above. From the OP -

It makes them, just on the margin, a bit more fearful that they are ruling us without our consent. This is all to the good. The government should fear the people. Not voting is a good beginning toward instilling that fear.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to hlen5)

RE: no part of either - 8/16/2012 9:40:06 PM

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quote:

It's the act of voting which legitimatizes their power

No, she's right. If the MAJORITY of people didn't vote, it wouldn't change the power structure at all--other than the minority determining who wins the elections.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: no part of either - 8/17/2012 4:36:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
So where do you stand on this, Yachtie?

I have not voted since '94. Not all governments are equal. I hope people recognize that.

So you've stilled your own tongue. To quote Heinlien "Of course the game is rigged".
Non-voting is what those who would have power over you would prefer you do.
If every voter tried to stay abreast of the issues and voted for the best compromise, our government would work. You can't have one party say that their #1 goal is to stymie the other side.
Edited4Spelling

The highlighted portion does not happen, and, unfortunately, probably won't ever happen. As a citizenry, we've allowed ourselves to be lazy and ceded much authority to government. Our choice to not diligently supervise government will, most likely, end our republic.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to hlen5)

RE: no part of either - 8/17/2012 6:05:08 AM

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FR

Theres got to be at least a third party candidate who you feel you can vote for

No one will share your views precisely and government will never perfectly reflect your will.

I sometimes say it this this way to friends or associates when a task before us is large, and seems overwhelming;

"How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."

You do have to participate, work at it and be involved if you are ever to finally have a goal accomplished

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: no part of either - 8/17/2012 6:34:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

It's the act of voting which legitimatizes their power

No, she's right. If the MAJORITY of people didn't vote, it wouldn't change the power structure at all--other than the minority determining who wins the elections.

quote:

It makes them, just on the margin, a bit more fearful that they are ruling us without our consent.

Evidently there is something about It makes them, just on the margin, a bit more fearful that they are ruling us without our consent that's not registering with you. The minority already does, by the numbers.

quote:

Sanity
No one will share your views precisely and government will never perfectly reflect your will.

True. But here is the problem we are facing -

The State owns the “democratic process” as surely as it owns the Departments of Labor and Defense and uses it in ways that benefit the State and no one else.

Have you found your vote actually matters?

You do have to participate, work at it and be involved if you are ever to finally have a goal accomplished

If anyone here should recognize it, what your saying is the equivalent of the hamster on the wheel. It's the illusion of meaning.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 8/17/2012 6:36:33 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: no part of either - 8/17/2012 6:41:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I vote in a heavily Red state which means my vote doesn't really mean a lot in Presidential elections, but it's my voice one way or the other.

Pretty much the same, here in deep blue CA, but there are always other matters on the ballot, where I want my say.

I agree, just went 2 weeks ago to vote in a primary where in some cases I had no one to vote for. I did get to vote on a few referendums, which to me are just as important because they were local issues.

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to TheHeretic)

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