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RE: New cat problem - 8/17/2012 5:49:20 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I wonder what would happen to Bibby if I get her spayed? She's already dropped several litters, and she is finally comfy enough with me to headbutt/leg wrap/and let me give her scritchies (and apparently, wants to move in...).

LC.. sounds like you have are SOL as far as him hanging out (and bringing you pressies)!!


I dunno if she'd change that much and females take longer to recuperate, a much more invasive procedure that requires stitches and a few days not jumping. Mind you my old cat had me with that, she was so badly abused she didn't get in heat until she was 3, then I had her done and carried her around, after the stitches came out, she still demanded carrying, so after 2 months I asked the vet how long I have to carry her and she basically had me on...

What's a SOL?


Don't worry about it....I didn't go into heat until I was 9.

SOL.....Shining On Lebowski.

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RE: New cat problem - 8/17/2012 5:56:16 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I think if H hadnt used the glove, chances are Greebo would have been ok. GLOVE BIG and BULKY = threat, perhaps... or..try spraying the glove with feliway.


Said that to him or basically read out what you said, his reply was "I got one sadist at home, I am not going to add a feline sadistic monster and lose my fingers, don't care what he's called, he stays out, he's got that gleam in his eyes, he'll possibly shit on my pillow and then kill me, I don't trust the fucker! EVIL CAT!"

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RE: New cat problem - 8/17/2012 6:08:49 PM   
GreedyTop


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*snort*!!

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RE: New cat problem - 8/17/2012 6:11:54 PM   
LanaDeVille


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Duskypearls

Maybe he's realized what side his bread is buttered on. While it's very unlikely to chemically make that fast of a difference, it's possible between the trauma of being trapped, surgeried, rescued from it and well-treated by you and puppers, it may have caused him to bond to you a bit. Hell, he knows he'd have get a much better deal with you than owner. A lot of his previously inappropriate act may remain after castration, as they've become behaviorally ingrained and may never alter, so personally, I would not be inclined to allow him in to possibly terrorize my passive cat or spray around the house. I'd leave him be and ignore him. Sooner or later he'll get the hint.

Should he end up becoming a model feline citizen down the road and you get along, maybe make the owner an offer.


Kitty Stockholm Syndrome?

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RE: New cat problem - 8/17/2012 9:49:06 PM   
Duskypearls


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanaDeVille


quote:

ORIGINAL: Duskypearls

Maybe he's realized what side his bread is buttered on. While it's very unlikely to chemically make that fast of a difference, it's possible between the trauma of being trapped, surgeried, rescued from it and well-treated by you and puppers, it may have caused him to bond to you a bit. Hell, he knows he'd have get a much better deal with you than owner. A lot of his previously inappropriate act may remain after castration, as they've become behaviorally ingrained and may never alter, so personally, I would not be inclined to allow him in to possibly terrorize my passive cat or spray around the house. I'd leave him be and ignore him. Sooner or later he'll get the hint.

Should he end up becoming a model feline citizen down the road and you get along, maybe make the owner an offer.


Kitty Stockholm Syndrome?


Good one, Lana, I hadn't thought of that. Aren't you the clever one?!

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RE: New cat problem - 8/17/2012 9:59:48 PM   
Duskypearls


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I wonder what would happen to Bibby if I get her spayed? She's already dropped several litters, and she is finally comfy enough with me to headbutt/leg wrap/and let me give her scritchies (and apparently, wants to move in...).

LC.. sounds like you have are SOL as far as him hanging out (and bringing you pressies)!!


I dunno if she'd change that much and females take longer to recuperate, a much more invasive procedure that requires stitches and a few days not jumping. Mind you my old cat had me with that, she was so badly abused she didn't get in heat until she was 3, then I had her done and carried her around, after the stitches came out, she still demanded carrying, so after 2 months I asked the vet how long I have to carry her and she basically had me on...

What's a SOL?


Neuters are a quick, easy deal, with sedation, but no entubation or anesthesia. Scrotal tissue/skin is much less and thinner, and hardly bleeds at all. Once the testes are removed, the outer scrotal tissue is simply pressed together (maybe glued) and quickly seals and heals. From beginning sedation to castration completion maybe 5-10 min. max. You'd be amazed how many male cats I've seen lined up, sedated and castrated in a row at the local SPCA in just 15-20 min. Maybe 15 toms are all laid out in a row and done like in a factory! They do large number in places like that. Fast and efficient.

Spays are a much longer and more invasive procedure, requiring far more sedation, entubation, and anesthesia for a longer period. Incisions are longer and deeper, there is more tissue layers and fat to go through, more organs to slosh around in to locate and remove the ovaries, and stiches (two layers) to put in. From start of sedation to end of oophorectomy (remove ovaris) about 30-60 min. depending on surgeon, animal, amount of fat, and what they find inside and how long it takes to find them. Plus, incisions are midline abdominal (on the linea alba), affecting skin, multiple muscles, ribs, and abdomen, so they're much more hurtin' buckaroos after this. Just think what you'd feel like after abdominal surgery. It hurts for days! OUCH!

< Message edited by Duskypearls -- 8/17/2012 10:43:21 PM >

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RE: New cat problem - 8/17/2012 10:23:15 PM   
nameonhold


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quote:

I'm absolutely baffled because this cat was freaking aggressive and attacked my cats, me and my dogs, surely a castration doesn't work that quick on calming him down?


After MANY, MANY years of owning cats, ordinarily, I would have expected this boy to maybe interested in a decent meal and perhaps ease into "getting to know you" in a different but calmer manner.

Honestly, it is the only way to have male cats as part of a group of other cats. Otherwise, they are honestly just too territorial and disruptive to be housed with the other cats.

Cats have scent glans on the sides of their faces. The glans emit a unique hormone which cats recognize in one of two manners, either, "mine" or "someone elses" scent. And when he rubs his head against your legs .... it is BOTH a sign of affection, AND a warning to all the other cats. He is still "marking" you with his scent. You are now HIS property in the cat way of thinking. The other cats will immediately recognize the scent as that of another cat. Over time, they will learn over time that he is not as aggressive as he use to be, so there isn't as big a penalty for messing with someone else's property. Therefore, over time others will be back and will learn to ignore his particular scent.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
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RE: New cat problem - 8/17/2012 10:43:17 PM   
nameonhold


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quote:

I was presented with a headless mouse, he also had already gutted it...


This behavior is CLEAR. He recognizes you as "The Head Boss Cat." This is his "peace offering," his "sign of respect," that you should share in the "spoils of war."

I constantly get, for instance, the tail of a squirrel, the feathers of a bird, things like that, laid at my door step by my cat.

Understand that cats are all lazy bastards, but they are also instinctive hunters. This "lazy" concept is really important. There is a saying, "There is no such thing as a fat cat in the wild." It's a saying among us humans, but it is absolutely true of cats. Cats will ONLY KILL what they will eat. They DO NOT kill for sport.

Therefore, when I feed him every morning, the cat does NOT see me as "giving" him the food. He sees me as "sharing" what he views as "my hard earned catch." He knows that I'm obviously a good hunter, because I always have good food to share. He just has no concept of the grocery store. But he does understand he's got a good deal going with me and the food every morning. So, when he is responsible for scaring up some food when he goes hunting, the knife cuts both ways .... he shares a part of his catch with me. Thus, I get the tail or the feathers or something of that order.

But the sharing of food by cats, is an ABSOLUTE SIGN OF RESPECT, even though in this case it is an inter-species kind of sharing.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
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RE: New cat problem - 8/17/2012 11:36:21 PM   
nameonhold


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No, no, no folks. You have to start thinking like a cat. To cats, there is only one thing that is important in life .... their belly..... who feeds it ..... and who scratches it. So to speak. A spayed or neutered cat is simply NOT motivated by sex.

Don't be giving the cats so much credit for higher reasoning. They are typically smarter than dogs, but there isn't any terribly high intellect. All things for cats tend to be very simple and very black-and-white. They think in terms like, "Food or No Food," "Good or Evil," "Safe or not safe." It is VERY black and white. Everything is "risk vs. reward."

Cats are instinctive hunters. There is no grocery store in their mind. They understand that ALL other beings must either hunt or forage for their meals. In the cat's way of thinking, there is no "giving of food" to another. There is ONLY "the sharing of the kill," and they know from experience that hunting is a ton of really hard work. The cats also KNOW that that when there is kill, the killer (you) has already taken care of their own belly and that if you share the kill, you are taking care of their belly .... THEREFORE .... you are good (as opposed to evil) in the cat's way of thinking.

If you share your kill (by feeding the cat regularly) the cat likes this deal. The cat learns it is much easier to be friendly with you, than to have to hunt down it's own meal and kill the other critter and certainly, it's less dangerous for the cat. So the cat wants to keep this sharing relationship he has with you going the way it's going. So now that the cat is no longer motivated by sex, there are only two motivations, food and affection. Therefore, when the cat has a kill, the cat will dump some of his kill at your door step. It's simple respect on the cat's part. You share with the cat. The cat shares with you. You scratch the cat's neck, the cat will offer you affection too. Simple. Really simple.

Now also understand that the cat looks at every other type of animal, INCLUDING YOU as a potential meal. The cat is constantly assessing two things, "Does the other animal taste good enough to be worth the effort to catch and kill ?," and "What is the likelihood of successfully hunting and killing that animal, without getting injured himself ?" Cats are CONSTANTLY doing these two calculations.

The cats are constantly sizing up your dogs as a potential meal. They've learned though, that if they get too aggressive with the dogs, the dogs will fight back, and the dogs can be dangerous. At very least, they know that the dogs can run pretty fast to escape, making the dog a "poor pay off" for the cat's effort attempting to hunt the dog. The dogs by the way, are doing the same assessment of the cats. But both the dogs and the cats have learned about the other, that sometimes, the other doesn't always take as good care of their kill as they should, thus they know, they can occasionally grab a quick meal from the stupid dog who didn't protect his kill. Therefore, in the cats way of thinking, as long as the dog isn't too aggressive, keep the dumb dog at arms length, but not too far away.

I had a cat once which was largely a feral cat. I only fed the cat every two or three days. The cat was a supreme hunter and was always hunting, killing and eating something. Every once in a while, I'd be sitting around the back yard in my bare feet, and the cat would attempt to swallow my big toe ... whole ! Literally, the cat was looking at me and saying, "Hmmmm. That animal looks like he might taste good. He doesn't seem to hunt me very much." Therefore, in the mind of the cat, the big toe is worth the risks.

The cat knows that a mouse is an easy catch and an easy kill. The mouse really can't defend itself against a cat.

A chipmunk makes a good meal for a cat too, except they are a much tougher catch than a mouse. But the chipmunks can't defend themselves very well against a cat. The chipmunks chief mode of defense is "escape."

Squirrels on the other hand, well cats have learned that squirrels, although a good meal like chipmunks, are more unpredictable. Some squirrels are nasty and will actually fight back at the cat. The have nasty teeth and nasty claws. Therefore, cats approach a squirrel much more carefully. Most of the time, cats and squirrels do a "Mexican Stand-off."

Cats know, for instance, that a fox is one nasty predator and at the first sight of a fox, will head the other direction. The cat knows the if he doesn't escape, he's going to be lunch for the fox. The cat's self-preservation instincts overrule all other instincts.

So in summary, do not "over think" cats. Their life is really very simple. It's food and affection for them. They'll get either in the most opportunistic manner possible. They will "sneak around" to steal your meal if they think you're not looking. They will "suck up" to you so that you'll share some of your excess kill with them. They will "hunt" if they have to in order to get a meal. They live much simpler lives than people think. But it is always about the belly .... how to feed it ..... and ..... how to get it scratched.

< Message edited by nameonhold -- 8/17/2012 11:59:55 PM >

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RE: New cat problem - 8/18/2012 5:51:13 AM   
LadyConstanze


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I don't think you are getting the issue, the cat actually belongs to somebody else nearby, the person refused to neuter him, so I caught him in a cat trap and had him neutered, because he attacked everything, including 2 really big Dobies and pissed everywhere, my cats were regulars at the vet because he really tore chunks out of them, I figured a quick snip to avoid the fights and potential diseases from the bites and scratches would be a good idea. They also deflead, gave him vaccinations and actually had to sedate him with a dart because he tried to kill the staff at the vet clinic.

This cat was a serious psychopath! I'm familiar with them bringing prey home (yes, I have cats and had them before), the change in that cat from super duper psycho who makes Batman's Joker like a jolly nice guy to "I want your affection, I love you and your dogs now and I will ignore your cats" just seems to be really weird. A castration doesn't mean he has no more testosterone running through his system, the vet said it will take time for him to calm down, I don't think by "it will take time" he meant half a day.

I'm aware he sees me as his new protector, I just wonder how that happened from a really feral monster within a short amount of time, just because I sat with him when he was a bit dizzy and wobbly on his legs after the snip and several vaccinations, it's like he's on rohypnol or somebody slipped him a bit of E and he now loves everybody and everything... It's just not normal!

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RE: New cat problem - 8/18/2012 5:57:25 AM   
Ninebelowzero


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Sounds like the problem has multiplied & you now have 3 cats.



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RE: New cat problem - 8/18/2012 6:24:01 AM   
LadyConstanze


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He actually goes home to his owner to check if she put food out, scoff it and then comes back, he takes occasional strolls but usually camps out...

While it's summer I'm sure that he's fine in the little shelter I made him, but when it starts getting colder, I might just crack and let him in because I feel sorry for him...

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RE: New cat problem - 8/18/2012 6:53:40 AM   
Lucifyre


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*giggles* Looks like you made a new problem for yourself that you clearly didn't expect. At least it's not a terribad problem though. I'd just ejnjoy the prezzies and the affection while keeping a wary eye for awhile. And I'd be much more worried about the owner being a doucche wagon over it than anything.
But for now, don't trip, things look like they're working out and you now have a 3rd cat <3

Lucifyre

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RE: New cat problem - 8/18/2012 7:50:34 AM   
LadyConstanze


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The whole problem is that we are dealing with the logistics of moving with 5 animals so far, we don't really want to add a number 6, because the whole pet passports and all that is quite expensive and it does complicate things. We want to do up the house, sell it and get the hell out of Britain, it's complicated enough with the animals we have, airlines really have you over a barrel when it comes to transporting animals...

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RE: New cat problem - 8/18/2012 7:56:55 AM   
Lucifyre


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

The whole problem is that we are dealing with the logistics of moving with 5 animals so far, we don't really want to add a number 6, because the whole pet passports and all that is quite expensive and it does complicate things. We want to do up the house, sell it and get the hell out of Britain, it's complicated enough with the animals we have, airlines really have you over a barrel when it comes to transporting animals...


Unfortunately for your new scruffy, he doesn't get to decide if he comes with you when you move or not. It will probably be a difficult decision for you but consider 2 things
1) if you take him with you, the owner will probably replace him with an unneutered animal and someone else will have the problem you just corrected.
2) Though it's obvious to everyone else reading this thread that you've grown at least a little bit affectionate toward this animal, the truth is, he is not your baby to make that choice for (though neither was the neuter, but IMO that was a wise move to make regardless of who made it, owner was being an irresponsible dipshit and I personally thank you for being compassionate enough to just take care of it rather than let the cat continue to be a danger to itself and others) And no matter how hard it is goig to be to leave him behind, without his owners specific permission, it would be wrong to just pack him up and take him along.

Best of luck with it LadyC! Thank you for being a good human and giving the cat some much needed love ;)

Lucifyre

_____________________________

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RE: New cat problem - 8/18/2012 8:54:27 AM   
GreedyTop


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~FR~

what Lucifyre said, plus airlines pretty much have you over a barrell, these days, regardless! and they don't even offer any kind of lube!

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RE: New cat problem - 8/18/2012 9:15:28 AM   
MercTech


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You used knife play on him and are surprised he is your submissive now? <giggle>

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RE: New cat problem - 8/18/2012 10:55:13 AM   
nameonhold


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quote:

I don't think you are getting the issue, the cat actually belongs to somebody else nearby, the person refused to neuter him, so I caught him in a cat trap and had him neutered, because he attacked everything, including 2 really big Dobies and pissed everywhere, my cats were regulars at the vet because he really tore chunks out of them, I figured a quick snip to avoid the fights and potential diseases from the bites and scratches would be a good idea. They also deflead, gave him vaccinations and actually had to sedate him with a dart because he tried to kill the staff at the vet clinic.


With due respect, I think that I am getting the issue.

The cat doesn't have a sense of "being owned." There is no such concept in the brain of a cat. The cat understands "Food or No Food" .... Food is good. The cat understands "Safe or Not Safe" .... Safe is good. Loyalty on the part of any cat, I assure you is skin deep. This neighbor's cat only saw your really big Dobies as Food. Your cats were a food source. Period. That's it. Not complicated.

Now, please do understand that as a castrated animal, he is no longer operating with the fuel of hormones which are produced by the testes. THAT alone will cause a major attitudinal change on the part of the animal. And that change will be rather immediate. I honestly don't understand why that seems to be a mystery. That should be obvious.

< Message edited by nameonhold -- 8/18/2012 11:03:28 AM >

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RE: New cat problem - 8/18/2012 10:59:05 AM   
nameonhold


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quote:

He actually goes home to his owner to check if she put food out, scoff it and then comes back, he takes occasional strolls but usually camps out...

While it's summer I'm sure that he's fine in the little shelter I made him, but when it starts getting colder, I might just crack and let him in because I feel sorry for him...



This is exactly the set of circumstances this cat is constantly evaluating. "Where do I get the better deal ? Here, or the house next door ?"

It's really simple. If you're giving him a better deal, he will appear to be loyal to you. If the cat gets a better deal next door, he will appear loyal to next door.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
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RE: New cat problem - 8/18/2012 11:22:28 AM   
GreedyTop


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by your previous postings, the cat would be "getting the better deal" by hanging out at the "owners" place, since she routinely gives him food.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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