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RE: Negotiation education - 8/22/2012 9:01:10 AM

RemoteUser

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

There should be an injection of "non-play" that affects play. Practical little things in life: When are you available? Do you have any other obligations that can take precedence (raising kids is the obvious one but other factors may apply, like work)? Methods of contact - email, phone, text, which are feasible, and when? Do you have transportation (this can be LD or apply to huge cities like Toronto, or spacious states like Texas)? These things will affect play, so they're worth discussing.

If LP is discussing scene negotiation, this doesn't apply.

LP, you just mentioned the don't-do stuff. How about the to-do stuff? Like what each likes.

True enough. I read it as a negotiation for a regular play partner, something further along than a one-nighter and nowhere close enough to formal ownership. In the context of a 'scene', I would be inclined to discuss more of what the partner wants as well, rather than focus on what's not allowed, unless it's risk-oriented or pushing boundaries.

I don't often discuss play with my girl but then, I already know the things she wants and what she doesn't. We mostly talk about it when there's been a dry patch (is there an interest that should take preference), or if we're talking about things to do together the next time we're face to face (we're LD). I'm actually interested in her thoughts on this and have asked a few things to pave the way for that conversation.

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RE: Negotiation education - 8/22/2012 10:00:13 AM

IrishMist

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You know, this is actually a very good idea. Though I do agree with a few who have stated that you should specify that this is for 'play partners'.

I have never played casually simply because it's just too dangerous; HOWEVER, if I was to go to a club/dungeon, or was just hooking up with someone over the internet for play... what I would bring up is the following.

I want to see some paperwork:
*A recent test result for any and all STD's, including HIV and AIDS. Since I like my play to include blood, these things are necessary.
**IF you have any sort of health issues other than those listed above, I want to know about them...preferably with a medical statement which describes what you have and it's effects.
**I want to know your name, and I want proof of who you are. You can block out your addy from a DL, but I want to see your name, and picture.

These are things that I will provide to you, I expect them to be provided to me.

What YOU can NOT do:
*Bondage or restraints of any kind. This includes holding me down, or having someone hold me down.
**Gags of any kind; the only exception is if you place your hand over my mouth. Be forewarned though, I might bite you.
***No needles.
**** If we are meeting from online and making a date to play somewhere, the first time WILL be in a public place. If I am meeting you at a club for the first time...well, we are obviously already in a public place.
*****NO aftercare. I do NOT want to be held, cuddled, talked to, given drinks or food. If you want to sit with me, fine, just keep your distance.
*******No sex. At all. I am not in this for sexual release.
********No sexual 'touching' of any kind.
Since this is just casual, there are to be no broken bones, and no cuts that require stitching.

What YOU can do:
*You can kick me, you can punch me, you can wrestle me ( though be forewarned that this will escalate the play to a new level ). Face slaps, hair pulls and body drags are ok but will most likely not give me what I am looking for.
**If knives are your thing...great...just so long as you draw blood.
***If breathplay is your thing...great...so long as you understand that just like wrestling, it will take the play to a new level.

What you can expect from me:
*I fight back. HARD. And I don't hold back. If you can not handle that, or if you THINK/BELIEVE that you can not fight at my level...then I am not the person for you.
**I WANT to feel extreme pain. If you think you are going to 'hurt me, and make the decision to hold back...be forewarned, I won't hold back. YOU WILL end up hurt then. I dont want some pussy whipped little boy who thinks he needs to protect me from too much pain.

What I expect from YOU:
An honest encounter.
For you to follow the rules that are set beforehand.
For you to understand that this is not about YOU. It is all about ME and what I hope to get out of it.
For us to part at the end of night on good terms, and happy with the outcome.

These are just some things that I would bring up IF I was into casual play. And before it comes up, yes, there is only one person out there, outside of my late husband, who I HAVE participated casually with. He knew both of us, and he knew me well enough to know that he could give me what I wanted and needed.
What's more, he was safe to play with because he literally is one of the few that could kick my ass and stop me if it came to that ( I learned my professional training from him ).

I want to make sure that I point out though. This list is only what I would require from someone. Everyone plays differently; therefore, their lists are going to be different. What's more, if you are playing with someone who you have known for some time, your list is going to look different also.
What I have written here is what I would do with someone whom I was JUST meeting for the first time. I need to stress that.

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RE: Negotiation education - 8/22/2012 10:15:57 AM

DesFIP

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If someone is not very experienced, I don't recommend exclusion lists. Meaning anything except what I've listed. I suggest they do it the other way, only allow what you include.

Safewords of course, but also a bottom should know how they react when things go bad. Tell the top that if you stop responding, play ends immediately. Or that if you turn your head away then he needs to reassure you. Or if your body goes rigid, you're unable to talk because of hitting an emotional trigger.

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RE: Negotiation education - 8/22/2012 10:19:47 AM

MariaB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: displeased

ETA: Ok, there was one question he asked me. Do I have any STDs and when was the last time I had a test. That was it that I can think of.

And what did you tell him ? and did he believe you? Also did you ask him the same question? and did you believe him?

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RE: Negotiation education - 8/22/2012 10:59:03 AM

LadyPact

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To RedMagic. Yes, those two questions that you quoted absolutely have benefited Me. While I think just about every person who plays casually has heard person X say how much of a pain slut they are and it turns out they are the complete opposite, the majority of the time, play partners have been fairly accurate. The what toys a person can't handle has absolutely come in handy. I would say canes come up more than anything. I did have a person who couldn't handle leather slappers because it reminded them too much of a belt from bad childhood memories.

IrishMist, thank you for that very comprehensive answer. I'll meet you and the others half way about the play partner mention. Maybe more than half way, but it may also apply to new relationships that involve play. Yes, a number of folks make that investment in a new relationship, but some don't. Many aren't jumping into owner/property dynamics right away, but for some, it is start slow and work their way up.

Thanks to those mentioning testing. I don't ask that one unless we're specifically involving blood, so thank you for pointing that one out.

I started this one up because we've had several threads lately about things gone wrong. The best prevention for that, I believe, is for the players to have an understanding of each other, at least through negotiation, to avoid such things.

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RE: Negotiation education - 8/22/2012 11:45:39 AM

MariaB

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If I have got chatting to someone in a club and we are going to do a bit of play and lets say we have already discussed the sort of play we are going to do, these are the sort of questions I ask. (With such a person there will be no exchange of bodily fluids)

Do you have any medical condition and are you on any medication?
Do you have a doctor or hospital appointment in the next few days?
Have you taken any illegal substances or drank alcohol this evening? I'm pretty good at spotting a pill head and I do carry a disposable alcohol tester on me.
Do you clearly understand the safe word? can you repeat that to me now?
Is there anything you need to tell me that may be prudent to the way we play?

I was recently told by a female sub that she doesn't like any sort of aftercare. She gets off on feeling abandoned. As someone who enjoys giving aftercare, I found that difficult and so I asked a DM friend to stay close by her after the scene and keep an eye on her. She was fine but I went away feeling the scene was unfulfilled and if anything I felt used.

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RE: Negotiation education - 8/22/2012 6:21:09 PM

DesFIP

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I'm curious about Irish Mist wanting to see ID for a casual topping/bottoming session in public with someone she's never seen before and isn't planning to see again. And does she give hers?

But I don't understand the purpose of the ID. It doesn't tell you if they're a competent top in the area you're going to play with.

You can ask about what workshops they've taken and with whom if something like fire play or needles to make sure they know what they're doing. But people don't get certificates in their real names at such a workshop to prove they should be safe to play with. Or do they?

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RE: Negotiation education - 8/22/2012 6:31:58 PM

Lucifyre

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm curious about Irish Mist wanting to see ID for a casual topping/bottoming session in public with someone she's never seen before and isn't planning to see again. And does she give hers?

But I don't understand the purpose of the ID. It doesn't tell you if they're a competent top in the area you're going to play with.

You can ask about what workshops they've taken and with whom if something like fire play or needles to make sure they know what they're doing. But people don't get certificates in their real names at such a workshop to prove they should be safe to play with. Or do they?

Everyone that attends our local public play space has thier ID copied and all thier information recorded into the computers. People within the space don't need to exchange information of that sort (ID etc) because if something were to go wrong, the owenrs of the playspace already have all that information. It's a membership thing, not like a bar where anyone can just walk in.

Lucifyre

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RE: Negotiation education - 8/23/2012 7:08:43 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

I'm curious about Irish Mist wanting to see ID for a casual topping/bottoming session in public with someone she's never seen before and isn't planning to see again. And does she give hers?

You have to remember, I am coming from a standpoint of someone I have met online mainly.

So, yes, before we meet, I want to see proof that the person I am talking to matches their ID. As I said, I don't care about addresses and phone numbers, or work and such. I just want to know that the name they gave me, and the picture they show online matches and ID.

quote:

But I don't understand the purpose of the ID. It doesn't tell you if they're a competent top in the area you're going to play with.

YOu should go back and reread some of what I wrote.
I don't care about their competence as a TOP. I plan to get into a free for all. If they can not fight...and fight dirty, as I will...as I spelled out...then they are going to get their ass kicked and kicked hard. I don't DO floggers, whips, paddles etc. I DO fists, punches, kicks,...

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RE: Negotiation education - 8/23/2012 7:30:34 AM

Rochsub2009

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One thing that often goes unmentioned is terminology. Make sure that you're both using the same terminology. That will aid in the communication process. For example, one person may think they're a "slave", but another may hear what they want to do and realize that they are actually a "bottom" or a "bedroom only" sub.

I think that many of the female subs on the board can attest that there are some "Doms" out there for whom "submission" is really code for "blowjobs on demand". If your expectation is that your submission will entail more than just blowjobs on demand, make sure that you discuss it upfront. A bit of conversation upfront will prevent a lot of frustration later on.

So make sure that both parties have a common understanding of what will and what won't happen. Also, make sure that you both discuss likes and dislikes. There is an extensive list of kinks in the profile questionnaire here on CollarMe. Print it out and discuss them item-by-item. This will help to determine both hard limits and soft limits. It will also spark ideas, and reveal areas of common interest that you can explore together.

ETA: To be honest, most of my D/s relationships have been rather organic. I can't remember having any formal negotiations. But negotiation has never been necessary, since I'm a communicator, and I only find myself in relationships with people who are also good communicators. Negotiation becomes less necessary if you're constantly communicating with your partner. Areas of negotiation will just come up naturally during the course of normal day-to-day conversation.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 8/23/2012 7:37:23 AM >

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RE: Negotiation education - 8/23/2012 9:17:08 AM

IrishMist

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Just a general add on to my last post.

Most will probably not make this connection but, someone like me could never play in a public club or dungeon for one simple reason. There is no one that is willing to accept the level of play that I require...and by that I mean that I am NOT a safe person to play with. It has nothing to do with anyone else. I..ME...I am not a safe person to play with. I would not be allowed to publicly play.

It's that simple.

So, my bringing up public areas of play are all hypothetical, and only mentioned for the use of others gaining some idea of what they COULD ask. I understand DesFIP bringing up competent partners, and for those who do play publicly, it's a good point. However, my answer to her was based solely on ME and how I would handle such a situation.

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