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RE: Oh yeah....makes my ovaries tingle just thinking ab... - 8/25/2012 11:31:41 AM   
PowerXXXchange


Posts: 58
Joined: 9/26/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Why should McDonald's pay for an employee to study pyschology?


Why should McDonald's exist?

Because it benefits the human beings in the country... at least in theory.

Worth keeping in mind when we're talking about the "rights" of corporations and how they balance with the "rights" of individuals.

IWYW,
— Aswad.







But corporations are people too!


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men CORPORATIONS AND LLC'S are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the 1%.




We the CORPORATIONS AND LLC'S of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


PxC


< Message edited by PowerXXXchange -- 8/25/2012 11:36:05 AM >

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Oh yeah....makes my ovaries tingle just thinking ab... - 8/25/2012 12:13:13 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
To the OP -

Looks like a nefarious global conspiracy hatched by male politicians to entice employers to hire more men (and women over childbearing age and lesbians)

Keep 'em home and barefoot and all that

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Oh yeah....makes my ovaries tingle just thinking ab... - 8/25/2012 12:20:01 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline 		Conspiracies are unnecessary when interests naturally converge.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Oh yeah....makes my ovaries tingle just thinking ab... - 8/25/2012 12:22:05 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

We the CORPORATIONS AND LLC'S of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence


Hahahaha... Well put.


_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to PowerXXXchange)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Oh yeah....makes my ovaries tingle just thinking ab... - 8/25/2012 12:26:17 PM   
PowerXXXchange


Posts: 58
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

Conspiracies are unnecessary when interests naturally converge.


True. My thoughts are similar on JFK etc.

Returning now to our origionally scheduled program, Tingling Ovaries

(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Oh yeah....makes my ovaries tingle just thinking ab... - 8/25/2012 12:52:51 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

As a person who is self-employed and looking forward to expanding my business, why should I have to pay for your personal choices?


As a private individual, you stand on the shoulders of the giants that went before, to say nothing of the massive support of your peers in society. You aren't a universe unto yourself. As a business, this goes double, and your very existence is a product of society as a collaborative effort. You trade in a currency that is maintained by the collective efforts of over 300 million people. It doesn't seem unreasonable that you would give something back for their trouble. As an employer, you reap the benefits of what other people do, and the society around you, including the fact that it is unlikely that you could have customers without it.

We have the same claim to what you will build as you have to what we have built (and continue to maintain). The nature of the beast is collaboration. If you aren't happy about it, your savings will almost certainly buy you a plane ticket, exit tax and a small village in Somalia where you will have no laws, no taxes, and no demands placed on you. It will just be you. No built up society that requires a payback on centuries of legacy. No population that expects you to take part in maintaining the workforce and the country as a whole. And no police, fire brigade, hospitals and military (well, unless you could the Shabaab militia and such).

If you do want to be part of the huge structure that's been built, you need to chip in.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Oh yeah....makes my ovaries tingle just thinking ab... - 8/25/2012 12:55:13 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

As a person who is self-employed and looking forward to expanding my business, why should I have to pay for your personal choices?


As a private individual, you stand on the shoulders of the giants that went before, to say nothing of the massive support of your peers in society. You aren't a universe unto yourself. As a business, this goes double, and your very existence is a product of society as a collaborative effort. You trade in a currency that is maintained by the collective efforts of over 300 million people. It doesn't seem unreasonable that you would give something back for their trouble. As an employer, you reap the benefits of what other people do, and the society around you, including the fact that it is unlikely that you could have customers without it.

We have the same claim to what you will build as you have to what we have built (and continue to maintain). The nature of the beast is collaboration. If you aren't happy about it, your savings will almost certainly buy you a plane ticket, exit tax and a small village in Somalia where you will have no laws, no taxes, and no demands placed on you. It will just be you. No built up society that requires a payback on centuries of legacy. No population that expects you to take part in maintaining the workforce and the country as a whole. And no police, fire brigade, hospitals and military (well, unless you could the Shabaab militia and such).

If you do want to be part of the huge structure that's been built, you need to chip in.

IWYW,
— Aswad.





And....

Yeah.

ETA: Seriously, the denial of such facts is harming America big time, in my opinion.

< Message edited by Baroana -- 8/25/2012 12:58:40 PM >

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Oh yeah....makes my ovaries tingle just thinking ab... - 8/25/2012 2:50:16 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah, the trick is to remember to nuance it a bit.

Around these parts, there's no room for not participating. That gets invasive and becomes a gilded cage in no time. In the USA, the participation is also invasive in some areas, but far fewer, and the sad part is that the non-invasive areas and the ones where the gain is very high are the least likely to be participated in. There has to be some middle ground here, and emphasis on getting as much out of any invasive or costly measure as possible.

For me, the logical thing is to intervene in two areas: those that can only exist due to social cooperation, and those that derive added value from social cooperation. The latter to an extent porportional to the added value. For instance, taxing transport of goods on public roads is fair enough, because the companies doing it are only able to do so because of the shared input that puts a road in place. Property tax, on the other hand, is not acceptable because it implies that ownership itself is collective, which it is not (at least not in any place that seeks to have mental and cultural health).

Taxing the wealthiest comes down to the fact that their wealth derives from collective effort. Without "us", they are nothing. Even the money they have is nothing more than our pledge to produce in the future, a form of indenture. Every modern country uses a production based, inflationary economy, meaning one that borrows against future labor. That makes it absolutely absurd to state that the indentured aren't allowed to have a major say in how this system is administered. At least unless we actually legalize the use of slavery and indentured servitude again. Democratic regulation of corporations is the major distinction between the modern system of capitalism and the old feudal system of serfdom.

That the working classes in the USA are so dead set on acquiring and maintaining serf status for themselves never ceases to amaze me.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Oh yeah....makes my ovaries tingle just thinking ab... - 8/25/2012 2:53:59 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

That the working classes in the USA are so dead set on acquiring and maintaining serf status for themselves never ceases to amaze me.


That has remained a mystery to me for the past 32 years.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Oh yeah....makes my ovaries tingle just thinking ab... - 8/26/2012 12:57:32 AM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Why is anyone that makes a personal choice that doesn't help their company entitled to hold a gun to their employer's head (the law) to get them to help?

If I go out and get drunk and lose my license, should my employer pay my transportation costs to get to work?



What has drinking and driving got to do with having a baby?

Ever thought that personal choice might not come into it, but dealing with consequences? Not everybody comes into this world as a result of a personal choice, and in fact I'd be inclined to argue that some of us are here not through personal choice but more through personal oversight, whether it be someone not taking The Pill, not using a condom, or having one or two drinks too many.

Also, what has a direct benefit to the company got to do with it?

The way I see it the biggest asset any company or organization has is the people who work for it (or with it) - not just clients, but employees too.

As an employer if I deem someone important enough to hire them then through making a personal choice in entering into a relationship with them it stands to reason that their welfare is important to me.

To me it's a two way street. If someone devotes a major portion of their life to working for me and using their skills, experience and abilities to enhancing my profits, then its also in my interest that they get the benefits they need when they need it - and I see taking time off to have a baby just as important as taking time off for any other reason.


_____________________________

Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 50
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