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Your opinions? An interesting read imo. - 10/6/2012 6:47:29 AM

patrick15sub

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Joined: 9/30/2012
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http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/domism-role-essentialism-and-sexism-intersectionality-in-the-bdsm-scene/

Disclaimer : I do not intend to offend anyone anyone via this post or deny anyone their kink. It is just my observation and my 2¢.

I found this quite interesting and at times entertaining. I think that anyone would find this interesting, though especially women, and people who identify as taking a nontraditional gender-based role.

I have always been fascinated by intolerance and people who do not think about their impact or role in society, as well as people who are unable to form or amend a thought not handed to them.

I have almost always taken on a more dominant role or leadership role in my vanilla life. Most of my friends throughout my life would agree with me. I am intensely protective of my friends and have at times fought off bullies (high-school) and been sort of a protector of those who do not stand up for themselves. My coworkers probably refer to me as an understanding fascist. I am very surprised at what I read, though I did make some observations that reinforce the idea at my first community event that I attended just yesterday. The sub/bottoms were generally quieter, and often the tops would say things that barked of possession. I personally took no offense, and wouldn't because at times it was directed towards me and I enjoy that kind of banter, it's part of my kink and I turned red a few times. I did not feel alienated at all, though I could see how one could.

(Not that it matters to me, I don't think that this is very important, though it may change how male doms treat me personally,)I am a pretty masculine guy, for instance I work in construction , was a golden glove boxer, and can lift heavy things. I am also a sub/bottom and enjoy receiving (in terms of dominance/the business end of a strap-on or cane) and giving ( my submission, and pleasuring others in general). I find the idea of anyone thinking I am a doormat kind of amusing. I am also pretty grounded, the idea that someone would think of me as damaged, queer, or somehow lacking boggles my mind. If I do encounter this sort of reaction I would see it as a blessing, because I tend to dislike closed-minded people, and would probably write them off.

I choose to be optimistic, that the scene members are more open minded. I thought this was fascinating, and would like to hear your thoughts.

My intent was pure theory craft, and I hope you read my opinion as such.

Happy kinking,
Patrick
M/sub/bottom

< Message edited by patrick15sub -- 10/6/2012 6:50:17 AM >

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RE: Your opinions? An interesting read imo. - 10/6/2012 7:02:30 AM

LillyBoPeep

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Looks a little interesting; I'll check it out once I fix some hot cocoa.
(Holy beets, it is freaking cold in this house.

)

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RE: Your opinions? An interesting read imo. - 10/6/2012 7:20:02 AM

JanahX

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I couldnt make it through the first paragraph. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

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RE: Your opinions? An interesting read imo. - 10/6/2012 7:53:09 AM

LadyPact

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Some of the article was dated. Some of it was slanted. Other parts were accurate in certain locations. Much of it relied on research that was done five years before the article was written.

My personal experience has not been reflective of what the article discusses. For example, it's been five or six years since anybody assumed I was a submissive just because I was female. I think it's happened twice where the male in My company was addressed before I was. (Yes, that is something that tends to happen. D types are spoken to first fairly often.)

Lack of female tops as presenters or bottoms that present was terribly understated. I've been presenting longer than some of this research was compiled and so have a number of others. Knowing the article was written in 2011, I'm surprised that even made it to the final draft.

The sections on One True Wayism, a segment of male tops not interacting well with male bottoms, and D/s crowds having an influence over the top/bottom crowd were closer in accuracy. The One True Way stuff doesn't float that much, especially in real world situations. (Cyber-only being the exception there.) The few male tops who *do* have issues with male bottoms are generally thought of as insecure. Again, real world, not nearly as much as some see online. D/s or M/s being promoted as "better" or more authentic still happens. This site is rife with that. Fet, is better, but there's still a lot out there.

The switch thing? Not so much. That has become less and less over the years. People really have learned that a person can enjoy both, or either. There is a greater understanding about those who engage in a certain role depending on the person. I agree that more switches are found in TNG groups.

While it almost came as an afterthought, one part I agree with absolutely. That is our BDSM communities are disproportionate in regarding people of color. Certain cities are better than others, but in many places, the demographics of our groups are nowhere near the same of the populace for the location. Also, many of our groups do have pansexual acceptance, but there are still a lot of lines drawn between gay and straight.

Those are My very long winded opinions. Thank you for sharing the article.

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RE: Your opinions? An interesting read imo. - 10/6/2012 8:19:12 AM

DarkSteven

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Lots of big words. Vague, scholarly fuzziness. Misuse of top and bottom in a gay male sexual context only (WTF?). Use of Maymay as a credible source, which to anyone in Denver is an instant disqualifier (he came to give some lifestyle conference here what tried to exclude local BDSM people). Yeah, I know, Maymay basically tries to stir the pot to generate page views for himself.

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RE: Your opinions? An interesting read imo. - 10/7/2012 11:01:39 AM

Titaniya

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I'm going to make a few scattered statements as I read. Hopefully some kind of coherency will peek through.

I think I've felt the effects of "domism." When I first entered The Scene,* I identified as a switch for various reasons. As I developed both within kink and outside of it, I started to identify much more strongly with the dominant side of things to the extent that the submissive/bottom side faded out, and I changed my listed role accordingly.

While no one treated me poorly per se as a "switch," there seemed to be a bit of superiority in the way people (particularly female-identified dominants) spoke to me, both when talking about kink and not. After I changed to a "domme," they started treating me as an equal - they listened more closely to what I had to say and the manner with which they spoke to me changed. Obviously, some of that is probably my internal bias, and some of it might be due to the growing amount of time we'd spent together, but it seemed so instantaneous that I'm fairly certain some of it was also what I identified myself as. I've never listed myself as submissive, so I can't give perspective on that.

As far as the article goes... It seems to make some valid points concerning gender roles and kink orientations. I do think submissive men tend to be viewed as "lesser" in some contexts, and I'm certainly curious about the sociological influences that might help explain the tendency for women to choose submissive roles and men to choose dominant ones.

One of the cited quotes says: "...she argues, men are likely to assume that women are submissive, and further, to create a (one-way) relationship of dominance (through inappropriate touching, or through language) with these women." This strikes me not as a bias about kink orientations but rather sexism enabled by men applying labels to themselves. Outside the community, it's been my experience that men in other social gatherings assume women are (well, I am) submissive/weak/etc because I'm female and small (before talking to me). I feel like men who do it in kink contexts just use their "dominant" label to justify their assumptions and their "rights" over women.

I feel that the article is, to an extent, targeting dominant men in its criticisms. From a feminist sort of perspective, that's par for the course, but it bothers me because most of the people I've felt "domism" and other oppression from within my local community have been women. This might be because my local community has an abnormally high number of female dominants (or female switches that lean that way)... I've had better success consistently getting treated as an equal by and making friends with male dominants and switches than female ones. On a fairly related note, I believe I only know one or two male submissives through my local community, so I can't give a comparison of that role between the genders.

From another cited quote: "Much like service topping, badass bottoms occupy the lowest status among bottoms; terms like 'do-me bottom' and 'just a masochist' illustrate the perspective that without claims to powerlessness, SM play is less meaningful." - It's been my experience that those terms aren't applied to masochists and bottom-but-not-submissive types, but rather to people who solicit a lot of random tops/dominants for play, usually without knowing them and without trying to get to know them and get annoyed when they're refused. I've never seen a bottom who asked for a non-D/s play session with a top-type they already knew or were friends with get any backlash for it.

I'm not sure where I stand on the article overall, and I'm not sure I buy most of its arguments, but it's certainly given me quite a bit to think about. Thanks for posting it.

*My offline experience within The Scene is limited both by time (it's been a little over a year now) and location (I've stayed in the Bloomington/Indianapolis area).

< Message edited by Titaniya -- 10/7/2012 11:04:36 AM >

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RE: Your opinions? An interesting read imo. - 10/11/2012 7:43:37 PM

DesFIP

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The author seems shocked that the public scene replicates the way society at large is. Heterosexual is the norm, homosexuals and bisexuals and heteroflexibles are not the norm in everyday society. So why did the author somehow assume that the scene would be composed primarily of those who aren't the largest sections of society? Why assume that heterosexuals wouldn't be interested in kink and or power relationships?

I'd be surprised if it were anything other than replicating the norm.

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