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knife and needle play - 11/4/2004 7:18:51 PM

loveheels

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Joined: 10/31/2004
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what exactly is knife and needle play?how is it used on a sub? and are there any harms to it?

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RE: knife and needle play - 11/4/2004 9:18:09 PM

MaitresseEden

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From: Houston, Texas
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Needle play requres training and skill, Like anything there are risks to it. Many people love the sensation of temperary peircings. It is something I enjoying doing as well, IT has RISKs.. bloodborne pathgens to start with, hence you need to know how to minimize your risk and how to dispose of your sharps, but it can be fun. ( See pic).

Knife play too has the same risks and can be very dangerous, most people use knifes for psychological dominance, and mind fucks, or light scratching. However it is imperative you sterilize the knife after each person, and most prefer to minimize the risk of permanent injury by useing a dull knife, that looks more intimidating than it is.

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RE: knife and needle play - 11/5/2004 4:44:28 AM

MistresKatamaura

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I do both knife and needle play. My knives are razor sharp. Each person I do knife play on HAS their own knife. They are NOT used with blood again with any other person. I do cut with knives, so do other people!!!!!!!!!

Needles are gotten from medical suppliers in a sterile field. Just like at any other cutting or peircing tool. I have added string to the needles or medical grade waxes which are safe.

You can freeze metal or heat it up also. On ANY PART OF THE BODY!!!!!!!!

I am doing a materials and techniques demo in NOV 19th for DomSubFriends. It goes over waxes and metals.

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RE: knife and needle play - 11/5/2004 8:52:59 AM

Destinysskeins

Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
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Greetings,

As MaitresseEden and MistresKatamaura have noted, needles and knives can be used for both mind and physical intensity. Oftentimes, diabetic lancets are used for needle play (check medical supply companies and/or fetish avenues such as BME) and either sterilized (such as in an autoclave) or pre-sterilized knives can be used. i've found that dull knives are best used when mental intensity is desired (play rape, sensual play, etc) and very sharp knives are best used for physical intensity (cutting, etc). The reason being is that a sharp knife glides along the skin much more smoothly, accurately and reliably than a dull blade that may skip and gouge on the skin. One option to consider when doing blood play are castration kits (

) which are pre-sterilized scapels with disposable blades sealed in airtight foil packs. These are available at nearly any farm supply store. It's highly recommended that a Top spend time practicing on inanimate objects (chicken breasts work well - hope you're not a veggie-head!) before applying their techniques to a living subject.

Well wishes!

(in reply to MistresKatamaura)

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RE: knife and needle play - 11/6/2004 11:31:10 AM

LadySonelle

Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
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I've done cutting, but I use sterile, packaged, disposable scalpels, one use and gone!

Cutting and needles (sharps play) is best done ONLY by someone trained "hands on" by another skilled person. I was fortunate enough to recieve training professionally (as a Physician's Assistant, I was trained in injection techniques) *and* in-scene by Good Dominants, such as Tony deBlase and Donny Rice.

At a minimum, the Top must have been trained and mentored, not only in sharps play but in sterile-field technique, wound care/cleansing, site preparation etc. All sharps (scalpels, dermatome blades, needles, etc) should be discarded in a sharps container suitably marked. The old standby of dropping stuff into a Coke can might be good for a scene, but that can had better find its way into a hospital dumpster later on.

Any sharps play whould be done at the end of a scene. NEVER... EVER... whip over or touch an area that has been pierced or cut. In fact, before the scene, even before the party or event, the sub must be told to bring a freshly laundered pair of pants or undershirt (depending on area pierced or cut) to put on AFTER the scene. Also, if the area is small a light, non-stick dressing can be applied to prevent contamination of the site.

Once the sub is home, the dressing can, and ought to be, removed so that the area can heal in the air. Clean underthings are important as well as antiseptic salves until the area has healed.

Something the Top in training needs to be prepared for, when learning to do a sharps scene, is the *feel* of human flesh under the blade! Human flesh is reasonably strong and the feel of the 'drag' when bringing the belly of the scalpel blade through it can be quite a shock. While we first practised on gelatine (made with 4X water to 1X gelatine for 'artificial flesh') and on oranges for the needles, the actuality of severing skin, and piercing the epidermis was quite a shock for us medical students! You really *do* "cross a line" when you first make a pierce or an incision!

My rating: same as Tony DeBlases. Advanced Play, NOT to be done without training!

Lady Sonelle

(in reply to MistresKatamaura)

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RE: knife and needle play - 11/8/2004 4:34:37 PM

MistresKatamaura

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Actually, I am a metalsmith and almost became a phlebotmist...Dull knives can carry dease because the metal is freyed and can become flat...You should NEVER use a dull knife on human flesh....A cut from a dull knife tears...A dull knife can still cut....After EVERY knife scene you are soposed to sharpen your blade in order to get any and all flesh cells off of your knife. you should be using a medical grade metal......A sharp knife can heal clean. Whoever told you to use a dull knife...Was WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: knife and needle play - 11/8/2004 6:14:04 PM

MaitresseEden

Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresKatamaura

Actually, I am a metalsmith and almost became a phlebotmist...Dull knives can carry dease because the metal is freyed and can become flat...You should NEVER use a dull knife on human flesh....A cut from a dull knife tears...A dull knife can still cut....After EVERY knife scene you are soposed to sharpen your blade in order to get any and all flesh cells off of your knife. you should be using a medical grade metal......A sharp knife can heal clean. Whoever told you to use a dull knife...Was WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish to clarify this point. By dull, we do not mean WORN. Extreme knife play (Not cutting) is frequently done with a NOT sharp knife. Sharpening a knife does nothing to remove blood born pathogens. A hospital grade cleaner (anti viral) such as Clavicide, or an autoclave ( which now can be found reasonably at a beauty supply shop) is the only thing that will kill pathogens.

If you are doing a "Cutting" in which the emphasis is to Actually CUT through the skin, then by all means you should use a sharp surgical scapel, that is sterile, and not an ornamental knife.

However, often times knife play does not involves breaking the skin, it is more of a psychological mind fuck, and the feel of cold metal against flesh, or a wicked looking medival knife that the image of alone intimidates the person. If you are engageing in a consensual interogation scene in which you are holding a knife to someone throats it had best be extremely dull, people do unpredictable things when in sub/dom/me space, and something has harmless as a sneeze can cause great damage, hence it is better to err on the side of caution. This is called Edge play for a reason, it isn't for the novice.

Ms. Eden

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RE: knife and needle play - 11/8/2004 7:07:52 PM

LadySonelle

Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
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One of the most delightful scenes I ever attended was one with Leather and Lace in California. The submissive, a beautiful Lesbian slave, was being marked with a tribal tattoo style cutting. Her lover and Mistress, a very skilled Domme did a fine cutting of a section of bamboo, leaves and lines balanced against her tanned flesh. She used scalpels and then, after the cutting was complete, she laid a square of sterile silk over the blooded lines, pressed lightly, then lifted it, preserving the image in her slave's blood on white silk. Then she rubbed tattooer's ink into the flesh and cleaned it and applied a dressing. The silk went into a frame and today hangs on their wall as a sign of their love! Guests who ask about the image are simply told "It's a keepsake."

All together now... "Awwwwwwww..."

Lady Sonelle

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RE: knife and needle play - 11/8/2004 8:45:24 PM

newbbwsub

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Joined: 11/4/2004
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WOW that is such a beautiful story. i have never heard of that type of technique - rubbing tattoo ink into flesh...i guess the ink only stays in the cut area??

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySonelle

One of the most delightful scenes I ever attended was one with Leather and Lace in California. The submissive, a beautiful Lesbian slave, was being marked with a tribal tattoo style cutting. Her lover and Mistress, a very skilled Domme did a fine cutting of a section of bamboo, leaves and lines balanced against her tanned flesh. She used scalpels and then, after the cutting was complete, she laid a square of sterile silk over the blooded lines, pressed lightly, then lifted it, preserving the image in her slave's blood on white silk. Then she rubbed tattooer's ink into the flesh and cleaned it and applied a dressing. The silk went into a frame and today hangs on their wall as a sign of their love! Guests who ask about the image are simply told "It's a keepsake."

All together now... "Awwwwwwww..."

Lady Sonelle

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RE: knife and needle play - 11/11/2004 4:54:54 AM

MizSuz

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: newbbwsub

WOW that is such a beautiful story. i have never heard of that type of technique - rubbing tattoo ink into flesh...i guess the ink only stays in the cut area??

Yes, the ink stays in the cut. After a while, though, they heal a bit differently than a regular tattoo. If the cut was deep enough then the center of the cut area can heal white (like a scar does) and the flesh around it will still hold the ink, fading a bit as it moves from the inked area. If it all comes together well it can enhance the design.

Sherria has a large ink rubbing/cutting on her thigh I did a number of years ago. This is a link to the second opening we did of it, about a year after the first.... http://mizsuz.com/scutpg1.htm

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RE: knife and needle play - 11/14/2004 7:42:54 AM

sandradee

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my master will put a pin through my nipple, sometimes i bleed..sometimes not.

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