RE: Indoctrination

RE: Indoctrination (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 8:39:05 AM)
quote: I highly recommend the book "Monkey Girl," by Edward Humes. It is a well researched account of the Kitzmiller case that not only exposes the fatal flaws of Creationism/ID but also exposes the dishonesty, the total lack of integrity, and the down right nastiness of those who see themselves as God's servants. It really exposed the know-nothingism of the local school board in Dover and how easily they became ideological dupes for the Discovery Institute which pushes the pseudo science of Intelligent Design under the false banner of conflict in the Darwinian Model, demanding equal time in the science classroom. Their greatest success has been dumbing down the Evolution content of high school text books. So, while Fitzmiller was a resounding rejection of ID by a Republican appointed judge yet on the basis of the science, it was just one battle, as you say. And the result in Dover was a sad dismembering of many neighborly friendships. Monkey Girl is a rich book and an easy read. Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District

vincentML -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 8:42:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I do not believe that science will prove the existence of 'god' at least not as depicted in any 'religious' context. We (by their reasoning) cannot exploit god, god exploits us. And therefore there is no way to find evidence of god. FAITH is the only road to god. . . . and it may be a blind alley leading to a dead end [puns observed]

DaddySatyr -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 8:48:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML FAITH is the only road to god. . . . and it may be a blind alley leading to a dead end [puns observed] Wow! You sound like a fundementalist Christian in the part that I've highlighted. While I hear what you're saying, I just don't believe that in my heart but absolute statements like that are, pretty much, the mis-perception about all people of faith. Peace and comfort, Michael

vincentML -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 8:52:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML FAITH is the only road to god. . . . and it may be a blind alley leading to a dead end [puns observed] Wow! You sound like a fundementalist Christian in the part that I've highlighted. While I hear what you're saying, I just don't believe that in my heart but absolute statements like that are, pretty much, the mis-perception about all people of faith. Peace and comfort, Michael LOL . . have a talk with John Calvin about that. But seriously, Michael, you are seeking validation of the supernatural through the natural inquiries of science. You don't see the contradiction?

DaddySatyr -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 8:55:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML LOL . . have a talk with John Calvin about that. But seriously, Michael, you are seeking validation of the supernatural through the natural inquiries of science. You don't see the contradiction? I do not see a contradiction. I feel, in my heart, that a God exists. If that's true, then (in my belief, again) *all* roads of enlightenment will ultimately lead to him. Peace and comfort, Michael

vincentML -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 8:59:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML LOL . . have a talk with John Calvin about that. But seriously, Michael, you are seeking validation of the supernatural through the natural inquiries of science. You don't see the contradiction? I do not see a contradiction. I feel, in my heart, that a God exists. If that's true, then (in my belief, again) *all* roads of enlightenment will ultimately lead to him. Peace and comfort, Michael What you feel in your heart may have nothing to do with Reality. So, good luck with that[:)]

DaddySatyr -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 9:03:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML What you feel in your heart may have nothing to do with Reality. So, good luck with that[:)] What I feel in my heart brings me some peace of mind. I would also remind you that what falls from your fingertips may also have nothing to do with reality. There's no real way to prove it, one way or the other. May your way be as peaceful as mine. Peace and comfort, Michael

vincentML -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 9:12:54 AM)
quote: I would also remind you that what falls from your fingertips may also have nothing to do with reality. There's no real way to prove it, one way or the other. May your way be as peaceful as mine. If there is no real way to prove it are you not back to Faith then? And why is enlightenment desirable anyway? If you are god's creation and god is omnipotent he can do what he wills with you whether you know him or not? So, how is enlightenment essential to salvation? And surely enlightenment is not essential to morality for history shows us that the 'enlightened' have raised mighty armies to conquer, pillage, and rape. So, why enlightenment? Seems a waste of time.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 9:24:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML If there is no real way to prove it are you not back to Faith then? And why is enlightenment desirable anyway? If you are god's creation and god is omnipotent he can do what he wills with you whether you know him or not? So, how is enlightenment essential to salvation? And surely enlightenment is not essential to morality for history shows us that the 'enlightened' have raised mighty armies to conquer, pillage, and rape. So, why enlightenment? Seems a waste of time. I was only attempting to show you that you engage in the exact behavior in which you accuse the Christian right of engaging. Why do you feel so smug and holier-than-thou (pun intended) that taking snarky swipes at my beliefs are justified? More to the point; while I have always thought you to be a person who has a measure of intelligence based on your hatred of "The other guy wants us all to believe ...", you are exhibiting the exact behavior you claim to despise. Lastly, I would remind you that my time is mine to waste as your time is to do with as you please but how dare you stand in judgement of others' beliefs when you seem to abhor that kind of behavior coming from anyone that won't see it "your way". I guess the fanatical Christian right doesn't have the market cornered on disrespecting the beliefs of others. Peace and comfort, Michael

vincentML -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 9:31:24 AM)
quote: Why do you feel so smug and holier-than-thou (pun intended) that taking snarky swipes at my beliefs are justified? More to the point; while I have always thought you to be a person who has a measure of intelligence based on your hatred of "The other guy wants us all to believe ...", you are exhibiting the exact behavior you claim to despise. Ahhh, this began with your comment that science would reveal god, and I challenged that. I do apologize for hurting your feelings, but I thought positions taken on a thread were open to discussion.

stef -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 9:39:59 AM)
Forget it, not worth the powder.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 9:41:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Why do you feel so smug and holier-than-thou (pun intended) that taking snarky swipes at my beliefs are justified? More to the point; while I have always thought you to be a person who has a measure of intelligence based on your hatred of "The other guy wants us all to believe ...", you are exhibiting the exact behavior you claim to despise. Ahhh, this began with your comment that science would reveal god, and I challenged that. I do apologize for hurting your feelings, but I thought positions taken on a thread were open to discussion. Then one of us is mixing things up. I never typed the word "salvation" nor did I even suggest it as an option. That was you, imposing the belief you wish me to espouse so that you could ridicule it. This will be my last response to you so, pay attention or don't but this will be it: My use of enlightment was more of a secular nature as I used it conjunction with science, in general. I believe that enlightenment is not a word that only the religious can use because with each scientific discovery, mankind - on the whole - is enlightened. We gain knowledge or, at least evidence. I believe that science will discover evidence of a Creator. You choose to mock that belief. Like I said; a bit too much like the fundies for me. I wasn't aware that mocking what you don't believe or don't understand or haven't yet found evidence for was part of the scientific process. In fact, in many cases, scientists refusing to believe that an answer doesn't exist has driven some of our most important discoveries. In the 1960s, the president of the United States said: "We will put a man on the moon by the end of the decade" and we did. Our scientists knew a good deal about rocketry but knew almost nothing of space. They refused to believe that answers didn't exist and they found them. Imagine that! Unfortunately, I have found your tone in this thread to be exactly as I stated previously and it's a shame that you employ the same methods that you claim to find so distasteful when employed by others. Peace and comfort, Michael

DaddySatyr -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 9:43:14 AM)
I lost the game. I wanted to edit and I hit the fucking "quote" link, again.

crazyml -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 9:44:18 AM)
What do you mean by "enlightenment"? Are you equating it with religious belief?

tazzygirl -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 9:47:31 AM)
It started here.... quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML LOL . . have a talk with John Calvin about that. But seriously, Michael, you are seeking validation of the supernatural through the natural inquiries of science. You don't see the contradiction? I do not see a contradiction. I feel, in my heart, that a God exists. If that's true, then (in my belief, again) *all* roads of enlightenment will ultimately lead to him. Peace and comfort, Michael

slvemike4u -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 10:00:21 AM)
Seems(to me at least) that the threat of no longer listening,engaging,blocking and or ignoring is becoming more and more prevalent around these parts. I know some of it had to do with the recent election,but here we are past it,and right there above me is another example of this behavior. And this from a poster whose sign off includes "peace and comfort" Have the words,beliefs and thoughts of another become so threatening that they call for such action ? I ,myself have never blocked nor totally ignored another poster,granted some receive more attention than others.Some are read for comedic value alone,and some are read just to see what I can argue against.....the point is no one here scares me enough,no other posters ideas are frightening enough for me to feel threatened in any way shape or form by being exposed to them. What about a poster leads you(the universal you) to block and or ignore others ?

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 10:05:51 AM)
Man have been searching for this ethereal 'god' since he/it was invented by someone just over two millenia ago. And before the religious nuts tell me it wasn't invented, it most certainly was! He/it didn't exist until the birth of christianity and even now does not exist except in the minds and scriptures of the followers. Neither men nor the science of men will prove the physical existance of something that was no more than a figment of someone's imagination in order to provide a focal point for like-minded followers. Incidentally, if it is an omnipotent, ethereal being, how come it's refered to as 'he'? Isn't that rather sexist? If it is known for sure it's a 'he', then those 'in the know' can obviously prove beyond any shadow of doubt that 'he' is real and exists - but none of them can! Considering there is no evidence that he/it even exists, let alone what sex it is, I find that a rather amusing concept.

tazzygirl -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 10:07:12 AM)
Its some people's way of saying.... I dont know how to debate this topic with you, so I am blocking you.

Kirata -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 10:10:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML If there is no real way to prove it are you not back to Faith then? Excuse me? What's this "back" to faith business? When did we ever leave it behind? Science itself is a faith-based enterprise. There is no way to prove the existence of an external reality. K.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Indoctrination (11/13/2012 10:11:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 Man have been searching for this ethereal 'god' since he/it was invented by someone just over two millenia ago. And before the religious nuts tell me it wasn't invented, it most certainly was! He/it didn't exist until the birth of christianity and even now does not exist except in the minds and scriptures of the followers. Neither men nor the science of men will prove the physical existance of something that was no more than a figment of someone's imagination in order to provide a focal point for like-minded followers. Incidentally, if it is an omnipotent, ethereal being, how come it's refered to as 'he'? Isn't that rather sexist? If it is known for sure it's a 'he', then those 'in the know' can obviously prove beyond any shadow of doubt that 'he' is real and exists - but none of them can! Considering there is no evidence that he/it even exists, let alone what sex it is, I find that a rather amusing concept. Religion started with Christianity? Really? Boy, the Jews, Egyptians, Budhists, et al. are gonna be kind of surprised to hear that! Peace and comfort, Michael

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