RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 2:57:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Romans didn't die off. They are still around. Again, you are mistaking the fall of a political entity with the ending of a people. Consider Zaire. It is no longer there, but the people didn't die off when the name disappeared.

I think you miss the point. The Roman empire had a population of 60 million in an area of 2 million square miles. Rome fell because it could no longer resource itself. It is one of many civilisations that over-consumed itself to destruction. However, our civilisation, on a planet of 7 billion is destroying its habitat and overconsuming its resources. If we can't manage our resources and habitat, there are no empty expanses to move into, we will be living on a rock with nowhere else to go.


Really? The Romans left the area because it had no resources?!? Why, then, did they come back?



meatcleaver -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 3:06:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Romans didn't die off. They are still around. Again, you are mistaking the fall of a political entity with the ending of a people. Consider Zaire. It is no longer there, but the people didn't die off when the name disappeared.


I think you miss the point. The Roman empire had a population of 60 million in an area of 2 million square miles. Rome fell because it could no longer resource itself. It is one of many civilisations that over-consumed itself to destruction. However, our civilisation, on a planet of 7 billion is destroying its habitat and overconsuming its resources. If we can't manage our resources and habitat, there are no empty expanses to move into, we will be living on a rock with nowhere else to go.

There were no widespread famine during the fall of the Roman empire and I can find no indication of any sort of widespread food shortage.

The fall of the Roman Empire is more usually equated with the fact that the Roman Legions were no longer made up of Roman citizens but instead consisted of germanic barbarians often more sympathetic to the invaders than to Rome itself. Another culprit would be the affterefects of the Antonine Plague (perhaps smallpox or measles) which killed about half the empire's population.


Around the mid 5th century there was a huge change in climate which caused what is known as the as the Weltvolkswanderungen, a migration of tribes that started in the far east of Asia and pushed all away across the Asian continent into Europe with the Anglo-Saxons pushing into England from their tribal lands along the north coast of Europe. North Europe being colder and wetter than usual and unable to sustain crops it could fifty years before. It caused Germanic tribes to push south into the Roman Empire and there was little resistance because Rome couldn't afford to pay its armies because Romes couldn't access the necessary crops because of the climate change.



meatcleaver -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 3:10:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Really? The Romans left the area because it had no resources?!? Why, then, did they come back?


I said Roman civilisation collapsed because it couldn't access resources, not that people left. In fact tribes from the north which were losing sustainable land because of climate change moved south into the collapsing roman empire.



jlf1961 -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 3:20:28 PM)

The fall of the WESTERN Roman Empire was due to a number of reasons.

1) Loss of control of Northern Africa which was the grain basket of the Roman Empire. With no imports of grain there was a food shortage throughout the empire, causing subject peoples to begin to splinter. This was also around the same time as the Roman Empire withdrew from Britain, largely due to the fact that the empire could no longer protect the extended boundaries that had been established during the highest point of the Empire.

2) The large number of Germanic tribes migrating from eastern Europe and Western Asia into the empire. The Roman empire could no longer defend against these incursions.

3) Repeated invasions of the region by Barbarian tribes, both Germanic and Goth.

4) It did not help that Constantine moved the capital from Rome to Byzantium, the city that he designed to be the capital of the Empire, which later became the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire.

Please note that after the initial expansion of the Roman Republic after the establishment of the Roman city state, the area around Rome could not support the nutritional needs of the area controlled.



meatcleaver -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 3:29:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


Please note that after the initial expansion of the Roman Republic after the establishment of the Roman city state, the area around Rome could not support the nutritional needs of the area controlled.


The population of the city of Rome fell by 90% during the 5th century, it was unable to resist Germanic tribes because of famine due to climate change.

What evidence there is suggests climate change in Britain weakened any rsistance to the Anglo-Saxons who were better fed and much larger and powerfully built than the Britons. Cerainly this is the impression given by Gildas who was writing about 100 years after the events. Modern science seems to back him up. 



Aylee -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 4:29:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

You do realize that all the other civilizations that destroyed themselves actually didn't destroy themselves, right? The Roman Empire rose and fell, but did all the "Romans" disappear? What was it that caused the fall of the Incan, Aztec, and Mayan Civilizations? The Human Race has persevered through it all. It seems that "political structures" are what fall or destroy themselves; not the people.


Rome fell because it couldn't feed its army and land and resource hungry babarians (some more civilised than Romans) were breaking down the walls of the empire. The Mayans almost certainly destroyed themselves through destroying their habitat and over consuming their resources. The human race could persevere because the human population was so small, there was always somewhere else to go. At the height of the Roman empire it had a population of 60 million people over a area of 2 million sq miles. Today we live in a world of 7 billion people and nowhere else to go.


Rome fell?  Are you sure about that? 



Politesub53 -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 4:39:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Some rich couple with lots of time on their hands goes on one of the new "eco" or primitive vacations and picks up a virus that has up till that point, only affected the primitive, isolated people in that region, who, have over time built up a resistance to the virus.





This is a bit far fetched, who in their right mind would visit Idaho ? [8D]



Aylee -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 4:43:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Some rich couple with lots of time on their hands goes on one of the new "eco" or primitive vacations and picks up a virus that has up till that point, only affected the primitive, isolated people in that region, who, have over time built up a resistance to the virus.





This is a bit far fetched, who in their right mind would visit Idaho ? [8D]


To see Hells Canyon, Craters of the Moon, or freakin' Yellowstone? 



jlf1961 -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 4:46:57 PM)

Yellowstone is in Wyoming.



Politesub53 -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 4:47:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: SthrnCom4t

Actually there is a collision or near collision predicted for 2037. The landing would be in the Pacific Ocean, 3 miles wide, triggering a giant tsunami effect on the West Coast of the USA. (among other places)

We have future ocean front property in Wyoming for sale if anyone is interested.

That's a bit after this Christmas though, isn't it?


Not in 2036 [;)]



jlf1961 -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 4:52:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Some rich couple with lots of time on their hands goes on one of the new "eco" or primitive vacations and picks up a virus that has up till that point, only affected the primitive, isolated people in that region, who, have over time built up a resistance to the virus.





This is a bit far fetched, who in their right mind would visit Idaho ? [8D]



Actually the movie Contagion is based on a similar idea, and also follows the CDC and WHO model of the outbreak of a previously unknown virus.



Aylee -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 4:54:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Yellowstone is in Wyoming.


And Montana and Idaho. 



Politesub53 -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 5:06:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Actually the movie Contagion is based on a similar idea, and also follows the CDC and WHO model of the outbreak of a previously unknown virus.


Yes, but my post was a joke, indicated by the sticky out tongue.

The next virus could already be around. there are several that are already resistant to anti-biotics, in places that include the US and Southern Europe.

I am wondering if over the counter and internet sales of anti-biotics are doing more harm than good. I wouldnt trust internet supplied tablets if my life depended on it.



OttersSwim -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 5:25:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: SthrnCom4t

Actually there is a collision or near collision predicted for 2037. The landing would be in the Pacific Ocean, 3 miles wide, triggering a giant tsunami effect on the West Coast of the USA. (among other places)

We have future ocean front property in Wyoming for sale if anyone is interested.

There may be a close approach in 2037, I do seem to recall that, but there is no way we could be sure where it would land. There are simply too many variables to deal with when a near earth asteroid is in final approach.


Actually, they do know where it would land. Here is a very cool video explaining it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaW4Ol3_M1o - and starring none other than Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

He makes the end of the world FUN! [:D]



Politesub53 -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 5:29:19 PM)

Otters, if it aint landing on my local beach, I`m nonplussed. [8D]



DesideriScuri -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 5:51:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Really? The Romans left the area because it had no resources?!? Why, then, did they come back?

I said Roman civilisation collapsed because it couldn't access resources, not that people left. In fact tribes from the north which were losing sustainable land because of climate change moved south into the collapsing roman empire.


So, the people were still there. So, civilization collapsing was more like a, oh, I don't know, a political construct? Damn, I should have said that at first so we could have skipped all this garbage. Oh, wait...



jlf1961 -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 5:51:35 PM)

The NEO in question is known as 99942 Apophis, an asteroid that is between 270 and 350 meters in diameter, with a mass of 27 megatons.

In its present orbit there is chance that it could pass through a gravitational keyhole during its closest approach to earth in 2029 that would set up a future impact on April 13, 2036, the probability of an April 13, 2036 impact is considered to be 1 in 250,000. And depending on the keyhole aspect of the near earth pass, would determine if it is an ocean impact or a land impact.

While this asteroid is not one that could cause a global extinction, it would be detrimental to a good day for those near the impact area. I would think that public events would possibly be canceled.




Politesub53 -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 5:56:02 PM)

jlf........What if I use sun block ? [:D]



jlf1961 -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 6:00:18 PM)

Polite I dont think that would help, HOWEVER there is a company that builds Arks, they are designed to sustain 80 people at sea for 12 months. They cost 4.5 million dollars. The company will even ship them to your land locked location so you can prep for a flood of BIBLICAL proportions that drowns the highest mountain ranges.



Politesub53 -> RE: Doomsday is coming! Or is it? (12/1/2012 6:07:57 PM)

All those twins...... I best start saving......lol



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