quote:

More than 53,000 people have been murdered in Mexico in the last six years—most of them by a variety of pistols, rifles, and assault weapons owned by Mexican drug cartels. While the exact number of firearms in circulation in Mexico eludes everyone, we know tens of thousands are seized every year by Mexican authorities.

These facts and figures might lead one to believe that it’s easy for cartels to buy or otherwise acquire guns in Mexico. In fact, Mexico has some of the strictest gun control laws on the entire planet—as well as one of the planet’s highest annual death tolls as a result of gun violence.
source

quote:

On the other hand, you might look at this little set of facts.

In Sandpoint, North Idaho, where I live for most of the summer, it's extremely easy to buy a gun. You can buy them at stores and at gun shows, or just at yard sales. Yet there are almost no gun deaths in Bonner County, Idaho.

The last ones of note in North Idaho were done by the FBI at Ruby Ridge, and that's a different story./snip

On the other hand, in my beloved Los Angeles, where I live most of the year, there's extremely strict gun control. It's a real project to buy a gun.

Here, we have gang shootings and death by guns on a terrifying scale. In my native city of Washington, D.C., the same goes: Strict gun control and lots of shootings.

The same goes for Chicago. Strict gun control and a lot of killing.

source

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I heard a reference on the radio saying that the Bushmaster was found in the trunk of the car, and was never used. If that is correct (initial facts are still confused, I think), do you think that will delay for a moment efforts to claim this a tragedy that could have prevented, if only the assault rifle ban had been renewed?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Starting this thread to keep the one about the Massacre in Connecticut from going to far off the point, one mentally unbalanced individual killing people for no good reason.

Now for some facts:

quote:

More than 53,000 people have been murdered in Mexico in the last six years—most of them by a variety of pistols, rifles, and assault weapons owned by Mexican drug cartels. While the exact number of firearms in circulation in Mexico eludes everyone, we know tens of thousands are seized every year by Mexican authorities.

These facts and figures might lead one to believe that it’s easy for cartels to buy or otherwise acquire guns in Mexico. In fact, Mexico has some of the strictest gun control laws on the entire planet—as well as one of the planet’s highest annual death tolls as a result of gun violence.
source

Now before you anti-gun fanatics start saying that the drug thugs are just going across the border into the states to get their firearms, I might as well point out that these cartels are using a lot of automatic weapons, meaning they primarily use the "spray and pray" style of shooting.

quote:

On the other hand, you might look at this little set of facts.

In Sandpoint, North Idaho, where I live for most of the summer, it's extremely easy to buy a gun. You can buy them at stores and at gun shows, or just at yard sales. Yet there are almost no gun deaths in Bonner County, Idaho.

The last ones of note in North Idaho were done by the FBI at Ruby Ridge, and that's a different story./snip

On the other hand, in my beloved Los Angeles, where I live most of the year, there's extremely strict gun control. It's a real project to buy a gun.

Here, we have gang shootings and death by guns on a terrifying scale. In my native city of Washington, D.C., the same goes: Strict gun control and lots of shootings.

The same goes for Chicago. Strict gun control and a lot of killing.

source

Another example of a country with strict gun control laws is Jamaica, very strict laws and a very high rate of gun violence.

Of course there is Israel, very lax gun laws and very low rate of gun violence.

And people who are pro-gun are not monsters who care nothing for human life or the damage a gun can do. I am a combat vet, and I know full and well what a weapon in the right or even wrong hands can do.

I can also say that if I had to, I could go to the nearest large city, spend a day or two and come home with a few untraceable weapons that may or may not be available legally.

Of course, you could look at the rampant use of firearms in the various civil and tribal wars going on in Africa. I can guarantee that those killers did not go down to the local sporting goods store and buy those weapons.

I own sporting weapons and some collectables. There is one weapon that I have been trying to get in my collection for a number of years, a Soviet Era Dragunov sniper rifle. They are illegal to import into the United States and have been for a number of years. The only ones legally allowed to be sold in the United States are those that got here before the ban.

Recently, at a gun show I was told that I could buy one, but the price was 3 times the market price, which to me indicated the weapon would be illegal.

The point, anyone can get a gun at any time, anyplace for the right price.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Now this takes real balls.
Starting a pro- gun thread on this of all days.
While I question,with reason ,your sense,I tip my hat to your incredible sense of chutzpah.

As to your thread,nice little collection of cherry picked "facts"
Lets be clear,are you claiming that the preponderance of guns present,right now,in Mexico aren't ones originally purchased in border states ?
If so it's not just your chutzpah that's incredible
You go from there to looking at the number of gun deaths in some place called Sandpoint ,North Idaho....and (again with the chutzpah) compare it,frequency wise,to major metropolitan cities such as Los Angeles,Chicago and Washington D.C..


There really isn't any point in continuing with this,but I would like to add one little salient fact:

For years and years I ,and every other American, has been sold the pablum that we(the universal we) have nothing at all to fear from responsible,law abiding gun owners.
That just might in fact be true.....but apparently we have everything to fear when it comes to those law abiding citizens guns.
These guns were all purchased and owned legally by the mother of the shooter,who also doubles in this little drama as victim #!,apparently this "responsible,law abiding" citizen thought she needed to own to semi automatic handguns and a Bushmaster AR-15 semi automatic rifle.
No,we had nothing to fear from this "law abiding"citizen ,though her fucking guns sure proved dammed dangerous.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Now this takes real balls.
Starting a pro- gun thread on this of all days.
While I question,with reason ,your sense,I tip my hat to your incredible sense of chutzpah.

quote:

The Mexican government and the media have consistently blamed the U.S. for the vicious drug war in Mexico that has resulted in over 35,000 deaths since late 2006. A diplomatic cable released by Wikileaks will disappoint them, as it shows that 90 percent of the heavy weapons used by the drug cartels come from Central America. The strength of the drug cartels is more attributable to the Mexican government’s inefficiencies than America’s gun laws or consumption of narcotics.

According to the published documents, U.S. diplomats in Mexico believe that these weapons, such as grenades and rocket launchers, are being stolen from the armed forces of Central American countries. They arrive in Mexico via the 577-mile Guatemalan border that only 125 Mexican immigration officials guard. Hezbollah and the Colombian FARC terrorist groups also deserve blame, as there are increasing indications that they are in bed with the drug cartels and are providing them with training, financing and possibly arms.
source

quote:

The massacre on the island of Utøya is certain to lead to a security review, with particular stress on how Anders Behring Breivik obtained his weapons. Norway already has some of the toughest gun laws in the world, but they were apparently easily circumvented by the killer.

A licence is required to own a gun, and the owner must provide a written statement saying why he or she wants one. Many categories of guns, including automatics and some powerful handguns, are banned from sale altogether.
source

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Now this takes real balls.
Starting a pro- gun thread on this of all days.
While I question,with reason ,your sense,I tip my hat to your incredible sense of chutzpah.

I think it's most appropriate.

Don't let the truth kick you in the ass Mike on your way to the safety of gun free zones.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am going to add something here, which makes my point very well.

Mike, do a google search on Charles Whitman.

Please remember, he did NOT have an assault weapon.

quote:

o According to the latest available data, those
who use guns in violent crimes rarely purchase
them directly from licensed dealers; most guns
used in crime have been stolen or transferred
between individuals after the original purchase.
source

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Thats just so much pro gun NRA bullshit.
More guns do not equal more safety.
More guns simply means more gun violence.
And as far as your per capita statistic,that is still skewed by the fact that folks in large metropolitan cities have many more interactions with each other,hence more violence,that's
just human nature.
Folks living out in the middle of nowhere much more rarely come in contact with each other when compared with folks in big cities.
It's cherry picked statistics,as the man said there are lies and than their are dammed statistics....Jeff chose the ones that he hoped would further his point.
Were I of a mind too(not on this night,no way no how) I could collect statistics that say just the opposite,as it is I will rely on common sense,more guns,more violence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am going to add something here, which makes my point very well.

Mike, do a google search on Charles Whitman.

Please remember, he did NOT have an assault weapon.

No ,all he had was an unassailable position.
There was no need to google,but there is a need to ask what your point here is ?
You bring up a shooter who managed to get himself,what for a shooter,was a most enviable position.....are these the circumstances that we have been dealing with recently ?
Again apples do not compare to oranges....no matter how hard you try to do so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

Pro-Gun tools love to pretend that gun crime in areas with strict laws is a result of the laws...

Without taking the logical step to assume that the LAWS ARE THE RESULT OF THE ABUNDANCE OF CRIME.

Herp until you derp.

Also, classy to make this thread today. NRA 4 lyf.

Also, ponder the poverty levels and socioeconomic demographics in those areas. COGNITIVE DISSONANCE, HOW DO THEY WORK?