RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools

RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:20:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin The AR type rifle at the top I can't be sure because I can't see if there is a safety/selector switch on the other side. Enlarge the picture and look at the badge on the shoulder stock and the markings on the magazine well and the magazine. ~Kirata Holmes

Focus50 -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:21:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Okay,I'm walking away again I swear I am...but I just caught a State Rep.from Oregon on CNN suggesting that we arm "volunteers" to protect out schools.That it is too expensive to expect law enforcement to do it,but that local leo's could in fact train and vett these proposed volunteers. I get the idea that many believe that America does not have a gun problem....that instead what we are facing is a shortage of armed responders. In other words America does not,currently,have quite enough folks walking around with loaded weapons. Volunteers....I wonder,should such volunteers be armed with assault rifles,I mean the last thing we want is for them to be outgunned in the ensuing gun fights ? Since I'm not familiar with your posting style, I'm not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic here.... lol But I do love the concept. Injecting even more guns to solve America's gun problems - that's gold right there! Whatever comes of this latest of too many domestic atrocities, the main outcome will inevitably be that an archaic constitutional right is preserved and that the slaughter of innocents remains "collateral damage" which, for the vast majority of Americans, will become just another statistic. Land of the free, and all that. I mean, that's what your founding fathers likely had in mind, right? Focus.

stef -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:24:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Actually I sort of can. The AR type rifle at the top I can't be sure because I can't see if there is a safety/selector switch on the other side. You can see the "safe" and "fire" markings on the right side of the receiver. The rifle pictured is not an assault rifle. BTW, it's Ruger, not Rugar. Bill Ruger may have been a dick, but he deserves to have his name spelled correctly ;)

jlf1961 -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:26:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Okay,I'm walking away again I swear I am...but I just caught a State Rep.from Oregon on CNN suggesting that we arm "volunteers" to protect out schools.That it is too expensive to expect law enforcement to do it,but that local leo's could in fact train and vett these proposed volunteers. I get the idea that many believe that America does not have a gun problem....that instead what we are facing is a shortage of armed responders. In other words America does not,currently,have quite enough folks walking around with loaded weapons. Volunteers....I wonder,should such volunteers be armed with assault rifles,I mean the last thing we want is for them to be outgunned in the ensuing gun fights ? I quite agree American has a gun problem. I just dont agree with the problem as you think it is. The problem as I see it, is guns of any kind in our schools, and I dont care if it is a single shot flintlock pistol, target pistol, zip gun, i dont give a fuck what kind of gun it is, I want them kept out of our schools by what ever reasonable and insane means possible. Put metal detectors and a couple of companies of armed national guard troops in every school in the country. If it works great, if it doesnt, put a battlion in the schools.

jlf1961 -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:27:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Actually I sort of can. The AR type rifle at the top I can't be sure because I can't see if there is a safety/selector switch on the other side. You can see the "safe" and "fire" markings on the right side of the receiver. The rifle pictured is not an assault rifle. BTW, it's Ruger, not Rugar. Bill Ruger may have been a dick, but he deserves to have his name spelled correctly ;) I have not slept since friday at ten thirty, give me a break.

Rule -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:29:34 PM)
Leave the computer and go to bed! And do not get out of bed until you have slept at least three hours!

DomKen -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:31:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl Assault rifle: That's not an assault rifle. That is a Smith & Wesson M&P 15R AR-15 (you can see the markings if you look closely). The straight-line design puts the recoil force directly in-line with the shoulder, reducing point of aim losses when firing. Consequently, it's a popular configuration. But the AR-15 is just like any other non-bolt action rifle that doesn't need to be manually cycled to chamber a fresh round. An assault rifle is a full-auto close combat weapon capable of continuous fire when the trigger is held back. Set on full auto, an M-16 will eat a 30-round magazine in 2 seconds. K. Wrong. Almost no M16's were capable of full auto. The AR-15 in all configurations is an assault rifle. It is shorter and lighter than WW2 battle rifles and it fires a high velocity lower caliber round than those battle rifles.

Focus50 -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:33:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u I wonder,should such volunteers be armed with assault rifles,I mean the last thing we want is for them to be outgunned in the ensuing gun fights ? I wish you'd abandon these "assault rifle" theatrics. The firearms you're on about are no different than any other firearm from the smallest pistol on up that doesn't have to be recycled manually to chamber a fresh round. They are not assault rifles. K. Yep, way to derail discussion with semantics. For those of us who don't live in gun-nut heaven, "assault rifle" is a generic term for a general service military weapon. IE, a robust, all conditions weapon designed primarily to kill people. I tend to think that's the spirit implied by the OP - a weapon purpose-built to kill PEOPLE, en masse. And you can buy such weapons over the counter in the US??? For better home security, no doubt.... Yikes! Focus.

stef -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:36:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The AR-15 in all configurations is an assault rifle. Wrong. The AR15 is not an assault rifle. It's the civilian version of an assault rifle. No select-fire, it's not an assault rifle.

DomKen -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:41:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The AR-15 in all configurations is an assault rifle. Wrong. The AR15 is not an assault rifle. It's the civilian version of an assault rifle. No select-fire, it's not an assault rifle. The AR-15 is not a civilian weapon. It is simply the civilian designation of the weapon the US military designates the M16. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15#History

Raptorsc -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:44:32 PM)
Semi-automatic AR-15s for sale to civilians are internally different from the full automatic M-16, although nearly identical in external appearance. The hammer and trigger mechanisms are of a different design. The bolt carrier and internal lower receiver of semi-automatic versions are milled differently, so that the firing mechanisms are not interchangeable. This was done to satisfy United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) requirements that civilian weapons may not be easily convertible to full-automatic Per your own wikipedia link...

Kirata -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:46:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Wrong. Almost no M16's were capable of full auto. The AR-15 in all configurations is an assault rifle. The M16 (officially Rifle, Caliber 5.56 mm, M16) is the United States military designation for the AR-15 rifle adapted for semi-automatic, three-round burst and full-automatic fire... The M16 is a lightweight, 5.56 mm, air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed assault rifle, with a rotating bolt, actuated by direct impingement gas operation. All variants of the M16 support automatic fire in either full-auto or burst mode or both. K.

stef -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:47:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raptorsc Semi-automatic AR-15s for sale to civilians are internally different from the full automatic M-16, although nearly identical in external appearance. The hammer and trigger mechanisms are of a different design. The bolt carrier and internal lower receiver of semi-automatic versions are milled differently, so that the firing mechanisms are not interchangeable. This was done to satisfy United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) requirements that civilian weapons may not be easily convertible to full-automatic Per your own wikipedia link... You're wasting your time. Ken is never wrong, even when he is completely wrong.

Owner59 -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:53:04 PM)
How about having weapons kept under lock and key(under penalty if jail time) to keep the crazies from getting them?Would have workd in this case. And I doubt any parent is going to be ok w/ a "volunteer" getting near their kids with guns. A trained and tested and vetted professional guard or off-duty cop ....yes. Volunteer watch caption George Zimmerman.........? No fucking way.

DomKen -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:55:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raptorsc Semi-automatic AR-15s for sale to civilians are internally different from the full automatic M-16, although nearly identical in external appearance. The hammer and trigger mechanisms are of a different design. The bolt carrier and internal lower receiver of semi-automatic versions are milled differently, so that the firing mechanisms are not interchangeable. This was done to satisfy United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) requirements that civilian weapons may not be easily convertible to full-automatic Per your own wikipedia link... You're 100% right but that doesn't change the fact that the AR-15 and the M16 can be exactly the same gun. What you're saying is some AR-15's made after some point are harder to convert to full automatic. That does nothing to change the fact that the AR-15 is one of the prototypical assault rifles along with the AK. The 5.56N round was developed for use in assault rifles, the weapon itself was designed for military use to fulfill exactly the requirements I listed above. The weapon was designed to kill a lot of people quickly. It has no other use some other firearm cannot fulfill better.

Kirata -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:55:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The AR-15 is not a civilian weapon. It is simply the civilian designation of the weapon the US military designates the M16. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15#History Psssst... the link you offered in support of your claim contradicts it [8\|] K.

DomKen -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:57:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: Raptorsc Semi-automatic AR-15s for sale to civilians are internally different from the full automatic M-16, although nearly identical in external appearance. The hammer and trigger mechanisms are of a different design. The bolt carrier and internal lower receiver of semi-automatic versions are milled differently, so that the firing mechanisms are not interchangeable. This was done to satisfy United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) requirements that civilian weapons may not be easily convertible to full-automatic Per your own wikipedia link... You're wasting your time. Ken is never wrong, even when he is completely wrong. How precisely am I wrong? Back when the military was still buying M16's what were those weapons called before passing into military hands? Was or was not the AR-15 the original designation and the one under which the weapon was accepted by the US military?

DomKen -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 1:58:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The AR-15 is not a civilian weapon. It is simply the civilian designation of the weapon the US military designates the M16. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15#History Psssst... the link you offered in support of your claim contradicts it [8\|] K. Liar quote: The AR-15 was eventually adopted by the United States military under the designation M16

OsideGirl -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 2:00:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 How about having weapons kept under lock and key(under penalty if jail time) to keep the crazies from getting them?Would have workd in this case. And I doubt any parent is going to be ok w/ a "volunteer" getting near their kids with guns. A trained and tested and vetted professional guard or off-duty cop ....yes. Volunteer watch caption George Zimmerman.........? No fucking way. In Israel, the teachers are armed. Since everyone is required to serve in the military, they're trained to use it.

DomKen -> RE: Armed "volunteers" in our schools (12/17/2012 2:01:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 How about having weapons kept under lock and key(under penalty if jail time) to keep the crazies from getting them?Would have workd in this case. And I doubt any parent is going to be ok w/ a "volunteer" getting near their kids with guns. A trained and tested and vetted professional guard or off-duty cop ....yes. Volunteer watch caption George Zimmerman.........? No fucking way. In Israel, the teachers are armed. Since everyone is required to serve in the military, they're trained to use it. Those teachers are also trained IDF veterans.

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