RE: Male victimization in modern society.

RE: Male victimization in modern society. (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 4:07:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Don't you get that sort of imbalance in a few gay couples? It's not inconceivable that a twink may end up getting the shit beat out of him during a break up, or just a bear partner turning nasty drunk on him... Another thought: one woman beating up her partner in the park? Me, I think I'd have a kneejerk reaction to intervene, whatever their respective sizes.

Aylee -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 4:48:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Don't you get that sort of imbalance in a few gay couples? It's not inconceivable that a twink may end up getting the shit beat out of him during a break up, or just a bear partner turning nasty drunk on him... Another thought: one woman beating up her partner in the park? Me, I think I'd have a kneejerk reaction to intervene, whatever their respective sizes. You are 3/4s of a foot taller than I am. And you out-weigh me by 50 pounds. I can see where you would have less personal safety concerns. (you also are unlikely to have children with you.)

PeonForHer -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 5:23:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee You are 3/4s of a foot taller than I am. And you out-weigh me by 50 pounds. I can see where you would have less personal safety concerns. (you also are unlikely to have children with you.) Quite true. I certainly wouldn't blame you for not intervening.

Aylee -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 5:50:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee You are 3/4s of a foot taller than I am. And you out-weigh me by 50 pounds. I can see where you would have less personal safety concerns. (you also are unlikely to have children with you.) Quite true. I certainly wouldn't blame you for not intervening. LOL. I did not watch the video, but I was rather surprised at the posters disbelief that women did not get into the middle of a fight. Don't get me wrong, there are circumstances that I would step in (and they would be the ones that are 100x as dangerous). But pushing and yelling are not one of them. I will also note that for a year the renters next door threw parties quite often. There was more than one female that I went up to and asked if they were okay or wanted to take a walk. More than one were appreciative of this interference.

PeonForHer -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 6:08:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee You are 3/4s of a foot taller than I am. And you out-weigh me by 50 pounds. I can see where you would have less personal safety concerns. (you also are unlikely to have children with you.) Quite true. I certainly wouldn't blame you for not intervening. LOL. I did not watch the video, but I was rather surprised at the posters disbelief that women did not get into the middle of a fight. Don't get me wrong, there are circumstances that I would step in (and they would be the ones that are 100x as dangerous). But pushing and yelling are not one of them. I will also note that for a year the renters next door threw parties quite often. There was more than one female that I went up to and asked if they were okay or wanted to take a walk. More than one were appreciative of this interference. I think that, at times, your only recourse is to a loud, stern voice and the fact that you've made it clear that you're a witness. I've been in that situation before.

Chesterfield91 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 11:51:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Chesterfield91 Okay. If you and your friends would call the police no matter the sex of the victim then fair enough, but the attitudes of that cop and that woman in the video PeonForHer linked are the kinds of attitudes most people have. It's the assumption of the man always being guilty of something that pisses me off, and it's the result of this bullshit idea that men are always the violent abusers when really it's closer to 50/50, and the fact that a lot of people like to think of women as being morally superior to men. I get your points and have some sympathy. However, together, they only make up part of the story. Another part, brought up in the video but not commented on, was the disparity in the likelihoods of damage occurring to the man (as the abused party) versus the woman. Can you imagine a similar video being made, but this time involving a small, frail man and much larger and stronger man? (Recalling that men are, on average, a third bigger than woman and their weight is made up of proportionately more muscle). I agree that men hit harder and do more damage, that's obvious. However women can still do damage when their little slaps turn into picking things up to throw at a guy or to hit him with, I've seen it. And neither of those guys ever layed a finger on their wives. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Since the video was made in NJ, if the police had been called, there would have been an arrest. The laws are in place. Just like with the Connecticut case I cited earlier, they have to be pushed. You are assuming, of course, that the police always do what they are supposed to do. I think we can both agree that isn't necessarily true. Exactly my point. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: Chesterfield91 Okay. If you and your friends would call the police no matter the sex of the victim then fair enough, but the attitudes of that cop and that woman in the video PeonForHer linked are the kinds of attitudes most people have. It's the assumption of the man always being guilty of something that pisses me off, and it's the result of this bullshit idea that men are always the violent abusers when really it's closer to 50/50, and the fact that a lot of people like to think of women as being morally superior to men. I am five two and around 115 pounds. Do you really think that I would feel safe enough to get in between two people fighting? Oh hell no. I too, would have walked on by. To be honest, I would think that all the rape prevention stuff that females are taught and told about is what would piss you off. Not the idea that by and large men are bigger and stronger and can do far more damage than women. That's not my point. My point is that neither of them saw the woman hitting the man as a bad thing. If the cop doesn't even bother to try to intervene what is an abused man supposed to do? It's pointless calling the cops, they don't give a shit. I agree with tazzy that more people should start to report it and to kick up a fuss before anything will change, and people should stop assuming that men are the only abusers. Of course the whole "rape culture" bullshit pisses me off too.

Chesterfield91 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 11:53:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Chesterfield91 Okay. If you and your friends would call the police no matter the sex of the victim then fair enough, but the attitudes of that cop and that woman in the video PeonForHer linked are the kinds of attitudes most people have. It's the assumption of the man always being guilty of something that pisses me off, and it's the result of this bullshit idea that men are always the violent abusers when really it's closer to 50/50, and the fact that a lot of people like to think of women as being morally superior to men. I get your points and have some sympathy. However, together, they only make up part of the story. Another part, brought up in the video but not commented on, was the disparity in the likelihoods of damage occurring to the man (as the abused party) versus the woman. Can you imagine a similar video being made, but this time involving a small, frail man and much larger and stronger man? (Recalling that men are, on average, a third bigger than woman and their weight is made up of proportionately more muscle). Of course men are generally bigger and stronger so when they hit they tend to cause more damage, however a woman can still do damage when she decides to pick something up to throw/hit the man with. I've seen this happen, and neither of these guys would lay a finger on their wives.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:25:06 PM)
quote: Of course men are generally bigger and stronger so when they hit they tend to cause more damage, however a woman can still do damage when she decides to pick something up to throw/hit the man with. I've seen this happen, and neither of these guys would lay a finger on their wives. I will point out something else.. and this wont make you happy. When the guy was abusing the woman in that video, he was physically restraining her. That man who was being abused just sat there... he didnt try to leave, from what was shown on the video. And at 1:40, for example, he is still trying to hold her. At 4:50, someone did call a cop. In fact, a cop spoke and gave a very sexist remark. My point in bringing all this up is simple.... its much easier for a man to get up and leave than a woman. If the man I live with and I got into a punching match, I would end up at the bitter end of that fight. If he decided to leave me, I couldnt stop him. And I think, for many of us, this is a big point. Men CAN control some of the abuse they accept... and trust me... that guy in the video was accepting it. The girl at the beginning was being picked up and tossed around. I couldnt have done that with any of my partners. So, we are back to my original point... men are their own solutions. Any DV victim should leave... in any way they can. For a woman, its a much harder task sometimes. For many men, its simply getting up and walking out the door.

meatcleaver -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:30:36 PM)
Females are also good at domestic violence 40% of all domestic violence victims are males. The fact is many male victims are bigger and stronger than their female partners but don't use violence to defend themselves.

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:37:12 PM)
quote: So, we are back to my original point... men are their own solutions. Tazzy, the women in that video could have just left too. They didn't seem trapped or cornered. But what a surprise, people will make up any dodgy excuse under the sun for why "it's always the man's fault" "it's always the man's fault" "it's always the man's fault" "it's always the man's fault"... it can never be the bloody fault of women. Women are perfect princesses who can never be at fault or wrong. This is why I call you a bigot because in your world nothing is ever the fault of women. But it's not only you that has this mentality, this is a conditioned social mindset. AGAIN, I'm curious to know, when it comes to gender issues, when are women ever placed in blame, not necessarily entirely to blame, for the problems? I'm even more curious to know what feminists say compared to others. Is any fucking thing ever the woman's fault?

PeonForHer -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:37:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl So, we are back to my original point... men are their own solutions. Any DV victim should leave... in any way they can. For a woman, its a much harder task sometimes. For many men, its simply getting up and walking out the door. Any DV victim should leave, but plenty don't, and not just because of the more obvious physical or material reasons (they might get beaten up further, or will have no money). They'll stay because they've become so demoralised. They 'deserve the punishment' because they're 'so bad' and 'so useless'. I think that's the real pits, for me, if I see signs of that on a someone's partner's face. That kind of abuse, and that kind of result, would cut very easily across gender lines, I'd imagine. Whether the man in the video acted that part well, though, is difficult for me to say.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:40:14 PM)
Purely anecdotal here. Over the last 50 years, I have been struck in anger several dozen times by female peers (I count multiple attempts in a few seconds as multiple strikes not one). I have no doubt that my experience is not atypical. I have retaliated zero times because of what tazzy said. Between my build and skills, there wouldn't be much left to scrape up off the floor. About the most I ever did was a series of forearm blocks while laughing at their efforts that would often as not create a "Goddammit you fucking hurt MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" as she was nursing the bruises on her hands/wrists. Well, if you punch a block wall, don't blame the wall for your broken hand OK. Walk away? Hell no. NEVER turn your back on a psychobitch. That does 2 things. 1. It gives her confidence. 2. It exposes your vulnerable kidneys and the back of your neck and skull to whatever she might decide to pick up and you'll never see it coming. My zero retaliation record existed because A: I was never attacked with a weapon and B: Noone ever successfully hit my testicles (a few tried but the blocks are extremely easy). Come with a weapon or kick me in the crotch and you might as well tell whoever is close to call an ambulance. Did anyone ever say a word to them? No

Chesterfield91 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:41:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Of course men are generally bigger and stronger so when they hit they tend to cause more damage, however a woman can still do damage when she decides to pick something up to throw/hit the man with. I've seen this happen, and neither of these guys would lay a finger on their wives. I will point out something else.. and this wont make you happy. When the guy was abusing the woman in that video, he was physically restraining her. That man who was being abused just sat there... he didnt try to leave, from what was shown on the video. And at 1:40, for example, he is still trying to hold her. At 4:50, someone did call a cop. In fact, a cop spoke and gave a very sexist remark. My point in bringing all this up is simple.... its much easier for a man to get up and leave than a woman. If the man I live with and I got into a punching match, I would end up at the bitter end of that fight. If he decided to leave me, I couldnt stop him. And I think, for many of us, this is a big point. Men CAN control some of the abuse they accept... and trust me... that guy in the video was accepting it. The girl at the beginning was being picked up and tossed around. I couldnt have done that with any of my partners. So, we are back to my original point... men are their own solutions. Any DV victim should leave... in any way they can. For a woman, its a much harder task sometimes. For many men, its simply getting up and walking out the door. As I keep saying I know men are generally stronger and that they do more physical damage when they hit (without using weapons), but also there are plenty of battered husbands/boyfriends out there with no support at all, and I think it's wrong. Abusive people shouldn't be able to get away with it just because they have a vagina, and it shouldn't be assumed that in domestic violence the male is always the guilty one.

Chesterfield91 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:44:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl So, we are back to my original point... men are their own solutions. Any DV victim should leave... in any way they can. For a woman, its a much harder task sometimes. For many men, its simply getting up and walking out the door. Any DV victim should leave, but plenty don't, and not just because of the more obvious physical or material reasons (they might get beaten up further, or will have no money). They'll stay because they've become so demoralised. They 'deserve the punishment' because they're 'so bad' and 'so useless'. I think that's the real pits, for me, if I see signs of that on a someone's partner's face. That kind of abuse, and that kind of result, would cut very easily across gender lines, I'd imagine. Whether the man in the video acted that part well, though, is difficult to for me to say. This is why I feel so strongly about it. One of those guys I talked about is a family member, and that's exactly the way he is.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:45:00 PM)
quote: Tazzy, the women in that video could have just left too. They didn't seem trapped or cornered. You need to watch that video again.

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:48:00 PM)
quote: You need to watch that video again. I don't see any difference between the men abusing the women and the women abusing the men. It just seems that you are just trying to make excuses for why everything is always the man's fault.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:49:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl So, we are back to my original point... men are their own solutions. Any DV victim should leave... in any way they can. For a woman, its a much harder task sometimes. For many men, its simply getting up and walking out the door. Any DV victim should leave, but plenty don't, and not just because of the more obvious physical or material reasons (they might get beaten up further, or will have no money). They'll stay because they've become so demoralised. They 'deserve the punishment' because they're 'so bad' and 'so useless'. I think that's the real pits, for me, if I see signs of that on a someone's partner's face. That kind of abuse, and that kind of result, would cut very easily across gender lines, I'd imagine. Whether the man in the video acted that part well, though, is difficult to for me to say. Which is why I didnt say all. The common denominators are the abuse, in all forms. The cure.. awareness of not only society, but the victims as well. The only way to bring about the cure is reporting. I pointed out the differences because repeatedly Nick and Chester keep bringing up that the abuse is exactly the same... its not. There are differences. If a woman wants to leave, she will have a far harder time than a man with the same desire to leave.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:51:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 quote: You need to watch that video again. I don't see any difference between the men abusing the women and the women abusing the men. It just seems that you are just trying to make excuses for why everything is always the man's fault. Of course you dont. How many times did the man pull the victim back? Pick her up? slam her into the bench? Hold her by the neck? How many times did the woman do that to the man?

Moonhead -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:52:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 quote: You need to watch that video again. I don't see any difference between the men abusing the women and the women abusing the men. It just seems that you are just trying to make excuses for why everything is always the man's fault. Well, when you stop whining that everything is always the woman's fault, you might have a leg to stand on with that argument.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/10/2013 12:52:12 PM)
quote: This is why I feel so strongly about it. One of those guys I talked about is a family member, and that's exactly the way he is. My brother was exactly the same way.

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