RE: Male victimization in modern society.

RE: Male victimization in modern society. (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 3:33:53 PM)
quote: Most men, including myself, are taught never to hit a woman, even if she hits them first. That's what I've always been taught. I could never do it, it would feel wrong. That's the way a lot of men are. No, thats the way you are. You may know some who think like you, or say they do. But you cannot say thats th eway a lot of men are. Your brother proves that point. Werent you raised with the same values? quote: Why are they not meaningful? I said I was talking about the police not taking it seriously as a reason for it being under-reported. I don't think they'd have trouble admitting it in front of their Mothers, for the reason I just mentioned. Because the study was conducted among teenage boys having to discuss hitting girls, unprovoked, in front of their mothers. I have a son... lol... yeah... like thats gonna happen and everyone will be completely honest. quote: No shit. Is that a yes or a no?

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 4:04:24 PM)
Wow, there is so much I would like to reply to but it would be too much work. I think it's pointless discussing male issues with tazzy. She's obviously clueless and not really in touch with reality. She seems to have the "it's the man's fault" mentality for nearly everything. But that's typical for feminists. You will never get anywhere arguing with a bigot. quote: Is this topic intended as a grievance against somebody? In case the OP here is unaware, this is what they call "a man's world." Men have been making up the rules of the game for quite some time now. Any complaints you have you should take up with them. quote: Yes men have been making the rule for 50000 years. It's beyond laughable how people can be so simplistic, not to mention, outrageously sexist and this will still be all given a social pass. Around 0.0001 percent of the whole male population have any such power to pull the strings in society. It's utterly ridiculous to say "it a man's world" when only a handful of individual men run the world while the rest of the men are just as powerless as the next woman. It's as foolish as me saying just because Julia Gillard is the PM of Australia, that means Australia is a woman's world. Therefore, all the fuck ups Julia Gillard does, we can also place guilt and blame on the whole female population because they share the same gender as Julia. The only people who have power are the INDIVIDUAL people who are in these positions. Why should you make a deal about what gender they are? Would I be sexist if I made a big deal about what gender Julia Gillard is? If so, why isn't it sexist to make a deal about the most powerful people in society being men? And not to mention, place blame and guilt on the whole male population because the people in power share the same gender? Talk about utterly simplistic and ridiculously sexist. Again, this all get's given a pass. If I carried on the same way about Julia Gillard, I would be a social outcast and deemed as a misogynist idiot. Double standards galore! But what else is new, women own just about all the double standards.

Aylee -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 4:25:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 Wow, there is so much I would like to reply to but it would be too much work. I think it's pointless discussing male issues with tazzy. She's obviously clueless and not really in touch with reality. She seems to have the "it's the man's fault" mentality for nearly everything. But that's typical for feminists. You will never get anywhere arguing with a bigot. Ya know, I would describe Tazzy as a lot of things, especially in regards to topics we disagree on. Bigot is not one of the adjectives that I would use, however. ETA: forgot a word and it made no sense.

jlf1961 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 5:06:50 PM)
Actually tazzy seems to be very knowledgeable about many things, in a very wide range of subjects, and when she is unsure, she does do the research to find out. To call her a bigot, or anything else is just wrong. Considering how much you have been on the attack Nick, I would suggest that not only do you not want to hear the facts, when they are presented to you, you just ignore them and go on another rant.

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 5:24:34 PM)
A person can easily be defined as a bigot when: 1. They single out a male expressing problems that men go through with the "what are you doing about it" tactic while never throwing this at people who complain about female problems. 2. Placing fault and blame on men for nearly everything that exist. That's a great indication of a bigot to me. In a feminist world for many, women are perfect princesses who can never be wrong and never be at fault for anything. quote: Considering how much you have been on the attack Nick, I would suggest that not only do you not want to hear the facts, when they are presented to you, you just ignore them and go on another rant. What do you mean? I saw her so called facts over and over again. We went around circles over and over and over again last night with this argument. There is nothing more I can do. I already provided facts on why men feel less encouraged to speak up about their experiences. But she refuses to acknowledge this logic and goes on with her babble that everything is the fault of the male victims yada yada yada. It's futile trying to get this across to someone who is so closed minded. Again, I would love to see people's say on this. I'm curious to know, when it comes to gender issues, when are women ever placed in blame, not necessarily entirely to blame, for the problems? I'm even more curious to know what feminists say compared to others.

jlf1961 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 5:28:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 A person can easily be defined as a bigot when: 1. They single out a male expressing problems that men go through with the "what are you doing about it" tactic while never throwing this at people who complain about female problems. 2. Placing fault and blame on men for nearly everything that exist. That's a great indication of a bigot to me. In a feminist world for many, women are perfect princesses who can never be wrong and never be at fault for anything. quote: Considering how much you have been on the attack Nick, I would suggest that not only do you not want to hear the facts, when they are presented to you, you just ignore them and go on another rant. What do you mean? I saw her so called facts over and over again. We went around circles over and over and over again last night with this argument. There is nothing more I can do. I already provided facts on why men feel less encouraged to speak up about their experiences. But she refuses to acknowledge this logic and goes on with her babble that everything is the fault of the male victims yada yada yada. It's futile trying to get this across to someone who is so closed minded. Again, I would love to see people's say on this. I'm curious to know, when it comes to gender issues, when are women ever placed in blame, not necessarily entirely to blame, for the problems? I'm even more curious to know what feminists say compared to others. Tazzy has done nothing like that, and I have been following your and her debate for some time. She has even posted links to groups fighting the problem you are ranting about. Sounds to me like someone has a problem dealing with a woman with a brain who knows how to use it for something other than figuring out how to perform the perfect blowjob.

MissAsylum -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 5:34:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 A person can easily be defined as a bigot when: 1. They single out a male expressing problems that men go through with the "what are you doing about it" tactic while never throwing this at people who complain about female problems. 2. Placing fault and blame on men for nearly everything that exist. That's a great indication of a bigot to me. In a feminist world for many, women are perfect princesses who can never be wrong and never be at fault for anything. quote: Considering how much you have been on the attack Nick, I would suggest that not only do you not want to hear the facts, when they are presented to you, you just ignore them and go on another rant. What do you mean? I saw her so called facts over and over again. We went around circles over and over and over again last night with this argument. There is nothing more I can do. I already provided facts on why men feel less encouraged to speak up about their experiences. But she refuses to acknowledge this logic and goes on with her babble that everything is the fault of the male victims yada yada yada. It's futile trying to get this across to someone who is so closed minded. Again, I would love to see people's say on this. I'm curious to know, when it comes to gender issues, when are women ever placed in blame, not necessarily entirely to blame, for the problems? I'm even more curious to know what feminists say compared to others. Why are you curious? It seems as though when a person disagrees with you, you completely shut down and write them off as spouting misandric propaganda. By definition, I'm not a feminist, so I'm not biased when it comes to gender issues.

Aylee -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 6:36:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 A person can easily be defined as a bigot when: 1. They single out a male expressing problems that men go through with the "what are you doing about it" tactic while never throwing this at people who complain about female problems. 2. Placing fault and blame on men for nearly everything that exist. That's a great indication of a bigot to me. In a feminist world for many, women are perfect princesses who can never be wrong and never be at fault for anything. quote: Considering how much you have been on the attack Nick, I would suggest that not only do you not want to hear the facts, when they are presented to you, you just ignore them and go on another rant. What do you mean? I saw her so called facts over and over again. We went around circles over and over and over again last night with this argument. There is nothing more I can do. I already provided facts on why men feel less encouraged to speak up about their experiences. But she refuses to acknowledge this logic and goes on with her babble that everything is the fault of the male victims yada yada yada. It's futile trying to get this across to someone who is so closed minded. Again, I would love to see people's say on this. I'm curious to know, when it comes to gender issues, when are women ever placed in blame, not necessarily entirely to blame, for the problems? I'm even more curious to know what feminists say compared to others. Reality isn't bigotry: The reality is that there are pond-scummy gallows bait in every group. Some of those will be more of a problem to their own group than to you. Some will be more of a problem to you precisely because you're not a member of their group. It is wise, not bigoted, to avoid the latter. Odd exception to that: men would much rather be followed by a woman on the streets of any city, at night, than a man. Most male crime is male on male crime. It is bigoted in its effects to deprive the male community of the social good that comes from executing male criminals that prey on other males.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 7:47:33 PM)
We will have to agree to disagree on this topic. Thankfully, the courts here agree with how I see it. And, btw, over half of what you quoted was not posted by me.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 7:58:14 PM)
quote: Wow, there is so much I would like to reply to but it would be too much work. I think it's pointless discussing male issues with tazzy. She's obviously clueless and not really in touch with reality. She seems to have the "it's the man's fault" mentality for nearly everything. But that's typical for feminists. You will never get anywhere arguing with a bigot. Oh nick, nick, nick.... why are you so mad? You know what is amusing with you, all these women were talking.... Barona was much more critical of men than I was... and yet its me you decide to attack in almost every post. Im sure many others have noticed this. You point out that I made the following post.... quote: Yes men have been making the rule for 50000 years. That wasnt me. quote: Is this topic intended as a grievance against somebody? In case the OP here is unaware, this is what they call "a man's world." Men have been making up the rules of the game for quite some time now. Any complaints you have you should take up with them. That wasnt me either, nick. So, exactly what is your agenda here?

PeonForHer -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 8:01:32 PM)
FR Hell's bells, folks, it's not as if this discussion isn't already heated enough! I do think it'd be good if we all were to quote the right people.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 8:03:08 PM)
The rest of us can keep it straight. Nick seems to have a personal ax to grind with me. Its all good. [;)]

Aylee -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 8:45:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl The rest of us can keep it straight. Nick seems to have a personal ax to grind with me. Its all good. [;)] Straight? Oh sure! Disenfranchise the gays and the trans why don't you!

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/6/2013 9:11:07 PM)
Well, I could have said gayly forward... but then someone would have jumped me for that too! Gesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant please everyone. [8D]

Aswad -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/7/2013 5:49:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And, btw, over half of what you quoted was not posted by me. I know. It was sort of a general reply. I should've marked it better. Sorry. Happy to agree to disagree on this one. IWYW, — Aswad.

Chesterfield91 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/7/2013 8:56:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Most men, including myself, are taught never to hit a woman, even if she hits them first. That's what I've always been taught. I could never do it, it would feel wrong. That's the way a lot of men are. No, thats the way you are. You may know some who think like you, or say they do. But you cannot say thats th eway a lot of men are. Your brother proves that point. Werent you raised with the same values? It is the way most men are, ask them. It's the reason my brother got so much shit for defending himself, and a load of comments on how a man should never hit a girl. He said that it was an automatic reaction to being kneed in the balls, he didn'tthink about it, and he felt bad afterwards. His first words to me were actually "I've just done something really bad". Did your brother hit his wife back or was the violence one-sided? Who hit first? I've been trying to find a video but it's been taken down I think, of an experiment where two actors, male and female, went to a park and abused eachother on a bench, to see how people would react. When the man abused the woman many people intervened. When it was the other way around, only one group of people intervened as expected. One woman walked past waving her arms in the air with a big grin on her face - when interviewed later, she said that "he looked like he deserved it". One of the people who was interviewed, who walked straight past, was an off duty cop. He said that if it had been the other way around he would definitely intervene, and that he'd been raised to "never put his hands on a woman". Seriously, ask your male friends what they think. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Why are they not meaningful? I said I was talking about the police not taking it seriously as a reason for it being under-reported. I don't think they'd have trouble admitting it in front of their Mothers, for the reason I just mentioned. Because the study was conducted among teenage boys having to discuss hitting girls, unprovoked, in front of their mothers. I have a son... lol... yeah... like thats gonna happen and everyone will be completely honest. quote: No shit. Is that a yes or a no? It's a yes. You could say that about the women too. Of course you're going to try your best to prove the results false. I also linked to hundreds of others that show DV rates to be about equal between the genders. Like I said, no reason for male victims to not receive the same support that women do. It should be taken more seriously.

PeonForHer -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/7/2013 11:27:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chesterfield91 I've been trying to find a video but it's been taken down I think, of an experiment where two actors, male and female, went to a park and abused eachother on a bench, to see how people would react. I saw that very recently. Quite interesting. ETA Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/7/2013 11:59:04 AM)
quote: It is the way most men are, ask them. It's the reason my brother got so much shit for defending himself, and a load of comments on how a man should never hit a girl. He said that it was an automatic reaction to being kneed in the balls, he didn'tthink about it, and he felt bad afterwards. His first words to me were actually "I've just done something really bad". Did your brother hit his wife back or was the violence one-sided? Who hit first? One sided. quote: I've been trying to find a video but it's been taken down I think, of an experiment where two actors, male and female, went to a park and abused eachother on a bench, to see how people would react. Nick posted it on this thread. quote: Seriously, ask your male friends what they think. What they think of what? That video? My friends, like me, would call the police and then start recording, wouldnt matter what sex the victim. quote: It's a yes. You could say that about the women too. Of course you're going to try your best to prove the results false. I also linked to hundreds of others that show DV rates to be about equal between the genders. Like I said, no reason for male victims to not receive the same support that women do. It should be taken more seriously. I never said the results were false. I said invalid, based upon what I know about teenage boys. Most teen girls would amit to hitting a boy friend in front of their parents. Most teen boys will not.

PeonForHer -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/7/2013 12:14:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What they think of what? That video? My friends, like me, would call the police and then start recording, wouldnt matter what sex the victim. In all honesty, I'm not sure what I'd do. A part of me would say, 'Don't intervene unless someone is in danger of getting hurt'. This part might also say, 'You'll embarrass the man and he won't thank you for your interference'. Me, I've sat through the occasional argument with a female partner while she's rained slaps on me, patiently waiting until she's finished. I've been aware that the partner concerned isn't going to hurt me in any way at all; she's only going to humiliate herself. I'd probably ruminate on it later, though, and ask myself, for instance, 'Does it matter that the guy wasn't in danger of getting physically hurt? He could well have been in danger of getting psychologically hurt.' Other men aren't like me and even I might, one day, not be in the frame of mind where I'm strong enough, mentally and spiritually, to take that kind of assault from a partner. All in all, I think the most appropriate response, for me, would be to bark at her something like 'Grow the fuck up!' or similar. (But, yes, I actually had to work that out, didn't I?)

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/7/2013 12:20:43 PM)
I dont know about the UK, but in the US, all that is required is the police to see the assault to make an arrest. He doesnt have to press charges, the police can.

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