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RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 11:36:31 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

An AR-15 being used or not, was never an issue with me. I felt it was a political tool from the beginning. I had also said that what was done could have been done with a couple of pistols and spare clips.

That being said, whether an AR-15 was used or not, has no bearing on the fact that there needs to be better people control with items that are dangerous to the public. I am not talking the extremes that many others are, just some common sense ones that are used with other various dangerous items in our society.

The biggest problem in the entire debate is the fact that many want to politicize everything, and then use extremes on both sides. This is not conducive to problem solving.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

More information on the Sandy Hook shooting. Lanza did not use an AR-15 semi-automatic "military style assault rifle" in the attack. They found four handguns in the school. Our liberal media. Report first - retract later.

Adam Lanza did not use AR15 weapon

He also was not wearing body armor as was reported... but I don't want to get the rhetoric tangled up in facts.




The folks who want something done,parents in particular,normal folks,moderates,non and A-political folks...are NOT extremists.

Who speaks for them?

We know who speaks for the right and we know that La Pierre is an extremist.


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 11:59:37 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The folks who want something done,parents in particular,normal folks,moderates,non and A-political folks...are NOT extremists.

Who speaks for them?

We know who speaks for the right and we know that La Pierre is an extremist.

People who want "something" done? No, not just "something". They want something specific done. And as it happens, those who don't think that particular something is reasonable or likely to be effective are also "normal" folks, parents, etc. In fact, in my experience it's almost invariably the extremists who brand somebody who disagrees with them an "extremist."

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 1/23/2013 12:06:32 PM >

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 12:09:22 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Joined: 10/11/2006
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Are you saying that those are the only ones that want something done? Are you possibly too used to someone arguing with you over something, that you come out with an antagonistic assumption?

You also seem to lace your comment with "normal folks" and a list, which then implies others are not normal.

It is these types of commentaries that lace the discussions with emotional mines that veer the topic away from a solution.

Try and work the middle ground for a solution.

What I see as the two extreme is those that want to ban and put heavy restrictions on firearms and those that want none. Somewhere in the middle of that is a solution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The folks who want something done,parents in particular,normal folks,moderates,non and A-political folks...are NOT extremists.

Who speaks for them?

We know who speaks for the right and we know that La Pierre is an extremist.




_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 12:33:47 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		The NRA....want`s something done alright.....more guns....


Not normal.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 12:39:04 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Again you come back with an extreme response.

Try the middle ground. The middle ground. That is where the solutions will be found.

Can you not see where the arguing over the extreme just muddies the waters?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The NRA....want`s something done alright.....more guns....


Not normal.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 12:46:33 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		I would put you in the not extremist camp on the conservative side.

Same with Kirata so I`m not speaking about you or others who`re at least reasonable.

But implying that folks who want something done(as in not more guns, btw) are extreme or the counter part of the extremists on the right/NRA is dishonest.

Sorry but the right does NOT speak for the middle/moderates/normal folks.

Please show us......the normal people........... ANYTHING rational that LaPierre has said in the last month?







< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/23/2013 12:54:45 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 12:48:55 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/16/2012
Status: offline 		Doesn`t anyone realise where the 2nd ammendment comes from? t the time of the wrting of the constition, the `enemy` was not the taliban or communists or anything else; it was feudalism. One of the tenents of european feudalism was that aristocrats could wear swrods and peasents couldnt. This had become a somewhat decadent concept, but it the early days of feudalism it made sense, Aristocrats were often military they ahd military obligations to the king, and the legislation was not designed to put weapons into the hands of a minority, but rahter to keep them out of the hands of the majority.
The writers of the constitution were trying to break with feudal traditions and wanted to say that everyman is equal to an aristocrat, and missed the point that feudalism had had a viable realistic system that kept weapons out of the hands of the majority.
thus the legislation that allows possesion of guns is just obsolete, an anachronism. its as silly as the old brit law in the early days of motoring that obliged cars to ahve a man with a red flag walking in front of them.

Everyone knows all too well that the world is full of idiots and crazies, letting them walk around with guns is just plain stupid.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 12:57:01 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59






Normal folks despise anyone who is breaking their necks to arm the crazies to the teeth.....ie.... the NRA.


Got it?





So you say the NRA wants to arm Crazies ? I don't get it or I don't get where you got it. What crazies are they seeking to arm ? Got a link or something to prove that ?

The NRA seeks to get crazies off the street and out of polite society, institutionalize them and keep them there. I have proof of that too. If I thought you were really interested aside from your hyperbolic BS I would even post a link or 2.

Normal folks would take a moment to educate themselves on what the NRA is all about and wouldn't say rediculas shit like that.


_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 1:07:54 PM   
Yachtie


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Please show us......the normal people...........



LMAO. I think that's the funniest thing I have ever read here at Collar Chat / Collar Me. In some respects it's just so profoundly absurd.


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 1:08:15 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284&A=4226


In previous press conferences, the Connecticut State Police clearly identified all of the weapons seized from the crime scene at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

To eliminate any confusion or misinformation, we will again describe and identify the weapons seized at the school crime scene.



Seized inside the school:

#1. Bushmaster .223 caliber-- model XM15-E2S rifle with high capacity 30 round magazine



#2. Glock 10 mm handgun



#3. Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun



Seized from suspect’s car in parking lot:


#4. Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)



This case remains under investigation.

Lt. J. Paul Vance


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Grotius)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 1:12:53 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		So whats your point ? Tell us all something we don't know.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 1:15:23 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59






Normal folks despise anyone who is breaking their necks to arm the crazies to the teeth.....ie.... the NRA.


Got it?





So you say the NRA wants to arm Crazies ? I don't get it or I don't get where you got it. What crazies are they seeking to arm ? Got a link or something to prove that ?

The NRA seeks to get crazies off the street and out of polite society, institutionalize them and keep them there. I have proof of that too. If I thought you were really interested aside from your hyperbolic BS I would even post a link or 2.

Normal folks would take a moment to educate themselves on what the NRA is all about and wouldn't say rediculas shit like that.



Who fought for Conn.`s ban on high cap magazines?

The NRA

Who`s fighting to have 40% of all guns sales kept secret?

The NRA

Who`s pushing to have silencers made legal?

The NRA.

Not normal.

Not normal.

Not normal.

There are quite a few gun owners who agree with me that the NRA has become an extremist organization.

Can you show me/us anything rational that LaPierre has said in the last month?


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/23/2013 1:28:31 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 1:19:52 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Can you show me/us anything rational that LaPierre has said in the last month?



Teachers should be armed?


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 1:23:12 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

So whats your point ? Tell us all something we don't know.


Well,there`s a new lunatic fringe effort to say that the AR-15 was left in the car and not used in the killing of 20 UMs.......Facebook is poping with the posts.



The MSM is "trying to politicize" the story by purposely making misstatements......


In their paranoia.....in this case,the MSM is demonizing the poor assault rifle and 30 the round clips.....poor bushmaster....so put upon....


Just disabusing a few nuts of their ignorance...... is all ....

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/23/2013 1:24:22 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 1:27:42 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Can you show me/us anything rational that LaPierre has said in the last month?



Teachers should be armed?



<in Jeff Foxworthy mode>

If you think putting more guns in close proximity of more UMs is safer.....you might be a gun nut....



_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 1:58:29 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59






Normal folks despise anyone who is breaking their necks to arm the crazies to the teeth.....ie.... the NRA.


Got it?





So you say the NRA wants to arm Crazies ? I don't get it or I don't get where you got it. What crazies are they seeking to arm ? Got a link or something to prove that ?

The NRA seeks to get crazies off the street and out of polite society, institutionalize them and keep them there. I have proof of that too. If I thought you were really interested aside from your hyperbolic BS I would even post a link or 2.

Normal folks would take a moment to educate themselves on what the NRA is all about and wouldn't say rediculas shit like that.



Who fought for Conn.`s ban on high cap magazines?

The NRA

Who`s fighting to have 40% of all guns sales kept secret?

The NRA

Who`s pushing to have silencers made legal?

The NRA.

Not normal.

Not normal.

Not normal.

There are quite a few gun owners who agree with me that the NRA has become an extremist organization.

Can you show me/us anything rational that LaPierre has said in the last month?




I don't know anything about the silencer thing and I don't know what you're referring to on the 40%. None of us are apposed to shoring up the background check situation. If indeed it's really as high as 40% not checked is is debatable.

As for magazines a handgun owner is not going to be satisfied with 10 rounds for their full size handgun when that weapon is capable of holding 13, 15 or more in a magazine that fits flush with the grips. That would be illogical and abnormal.

What is not normal is the government and others trying to outlaw an entire class of firearms while pretending it doesn't violate the 2nd amendment thinking somehow it will have an effect on crime or mass murder.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 2:01:31 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Who`s fighting to have 40% of all guns sales kept secret?

Washington Post Fact Checker

The White House says the figure comes from a 1997 Institute of Justice report... This study is based on data collected from a survey in 1994... the questions concerned purchases in 1993 and 1994, while Brady law went into effect in early 1994... the survey sample was just 251 people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Who`s pushing to have silencers made legal?

5 Ridiculous Gun Myths Everyone Believes

An unsilenced gunshot is around 140 to 160 decibels -- that's in the range where hearing it once can permanently damage your ears... A silencer can get that all the way down to 120 or 130 decibles, aka the sound of a jackhammer.

Now I have a question. See if you can figure out what it is.

K.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 2:05:44 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I admit it, I am a gun extremist.

I want GE Mini Guns for home defense.

I want 50 cal machine guns to hunt deer (they have armed themselves by the way.)

I want children licensed to carry guns in school

I want teachers in body armor.

I want Tazzy under my control.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 2:11:01 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/25/michael-bloomberg/mayor-michael-bloomberg-says-40-percent-guns-are-s/


Mostly true.

http://uppitywis.org/blogarticle/wanna-buy-gun-cant-pass-background-check-no-problem

Maybe I was mistaken about you.


Maybe you are with those breaking their necks to arm the crazies......

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/23/2013 2:12:30 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Why people support higher capacity magazines - 1/23/2013 2:15:06 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Don't keep up with LaPierre, and I believe that to be a good thing. Then my thinking and rationale is not influenced by polarization. Rather than focus on what LaPierre, or any extremist is saying, why not focus on the middle ground and finding a solution? I know it is not as exciting, but in the end I believe will be more productive.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I would put you in the not extremist camp on the conservative side.

Same with Kirata so I`m not speaking about you or others who`re at least reasonable.

But implying that folks who want something done(as in not more guns, btw) are extreme or the counter part of the extremists on the right/NRA is dishonest.

Sorry but the right does NOT speak for the middle/moderates/normal folks.

Please show us......the normal people........... ANYTHING rational that LaPierre has said in the last month?









_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 160
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