quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
LMFAO...when you come up with a cure ..let me know.
we know what some of the problems are, and they are alll impossible to allow according to people like yourself, poverty, healthcare, mental health, will not be helped by libertarian views, such as personal responsibility, self reliance.
Not everyone is as perfect as those espousing such, and god isnt gonna help out.
Eliminating a cause of the illness has to be part of the cure.changing lifestyle has to help huh?
maybe in everything until it comes to guns eh??

Lifestyle will cure an awful lot of problems we face in America. I know of none that are perfect, regardless of their political or religious beliefs. Guns aren't the cause of illness, either.

If guns can not create mental illnesses, perhaps explain to all of us the few million documented PTSD cases that involve patients dealing with traumic moments with such tools. Either on a battlefield, in their house, a movie theater in Colorado, or a small town in New England. The numerous examples would simply tell any reasonable person that guns can and do, create mental and emotional problems. Not just in children but adults as well. And that it takes...years....to treat even the relatively mild cases.

Seriously? Are you really attempting to blame an inert object that can't do anything on it's own other than be there? Your question showed precisely what is going on. The whole PTSD ... patients ... traumatic moments thing. The PTSD wasn't caused by the presence of a gun. How many people in the military have PTSD that have never been in a combat situation? They still have guns, don't they? Unless you have some congenital fear of guns (which would be irrational without any previous trauma), a gun by itself, can not cause mental illness. And, that they deal with a traumatic experience (that caused the PTSD) with a gun isn't proof that a gun caused the PTSD or even the trauma itself.

The trauma, the problem, the PTSD, can all be attributed to what the gun was used for, not the gun itself. Without previous exposure to some trauma involving a gun, no one is going to have some debilitating fear of a gun.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
actually it could happen, a phobia, which are listed under anxiety disorders in the DSM IV. Jeff Cooper, coined the condiction Hoplophobia, but it is not medically recongnized, Iconophobia, fear of images or Megalophobia fear of large objects, Ligyrophobia fear of loud sounds (gun fire) or Ligyrophobic fear of a device that makes sound, are medical conditions.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

Perhaps because abortion is a choice? There aren't people on the streets aborting pregnant moms, or threatening a D&C unless they hand over the purse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Perhaps because abortion is a choice? There aren't people on the streets aborting pregnant moms, or threatening a D&C unless they hand over the purse.

Owning guns is a choice. Deciding which guns to own is a choice. And, you are wrong, there are women who die every year because they refuse to get an abortion, because their families try home remedies, or because someone tries to beat the baby out of her.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
actually it could happen, a phobia, which are listed under anxiety disorders in the DSM IV. Jeff Cooper, coined the condiction Hoplophobia, but it is not medically recongnized, Iconophobia, fear of images or Megalophobia fear of large objects, Ligyrophobia fear of loud sounds (gun fire) or Ligyrophobic fear of a device that makes sound, are medical conditions.

See now? Would that person still have an anxiety disorder without the gun? Guns aren't the only things that are imaged, are loud, or make loud sounds. Guns aren't even necessarily large objects. And, in order for a gun to make a sound, loud or not, there has to be someone pulling the trigger.


Walking into a sporting goods store and into the firearms area doesn't give me the willies or make me fear for my life, but if someone has one of those guns and is pointing it at me and threatening to use it, well, let's just say it's a lot more effective in instilling fear at that point.

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie
But if you or I make the same claim, suddenly we are branded lunatics by the fringe left and all the gun grabbers across America who apparently have no clue that their own government is arming up like never before.

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ORIGINAL: http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/31/opinion/glaze-gun-control/?hpt=hp_c1
A CBS/New York Times poll released on January 17 found 93% of those living in households with gun owners and 85% in households with NRA members support background checks.

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

What does Homeland Security say is the way to protect yourself / fight back against a mass attacker or any attacker really? Why, this!

“If you are caught out in the open and cannot conceal yourself or take cover, you might consider trying to overpower the shooter with whatever means are available,” says the narrator in the video, which shows an office worker pulling scissors out of a desk drawer.

The video, titled “Options for Consideration,” also advises that people who get caught in an “active shooter” situation should run away, hide under a desk or take cover out of the line of fire.


“To protect your hiding place, lock the door if you can. Block the door with heavy furniture,” recommends the male narrator, speaking in measured, authoritative tones.

Other survival strategies promoted in the video include hiding “behind large items such as cabinets or desks. Remain quiet. Silence your cellphone or pager. Even the vibration setting can give away a hiding position.”



But of course that's not what DHS recommends for itself -


DHS and its components have a requirement for a 5.56x45mm NATO, select-fire firearm suitable for personal defense use in close quarters and / or when maximum concealment is required.

So there it is, right in black and white: DHS enforcers need full-auto AR-15s which are "suitable for personal defense in close quarters" and for "maximum concealment."

But if you or I make the same claim, suddenly we are branded lunatics by the fringe left and all the gun grabbers across America who apparently have no clue that their own government is arming up like never before.


If someone were to grab a set of electric pruning shears per the first, would they be prosecuted for using an automatic weapon in self defense? Given the appearance the government portrays I'd not be surprised.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
LMFAO...when you come up with a cure ..let me know.
we know what some of the problems are, and they are alll impossible to allow according to people like yourself, poverty, healthcare, mental health, will not be helped by libertarian views, such as personal responsibility, self reliance.
Not everyone is as perfect as those espousing such, and god isnt gonna help out.
Eliminating a cause of the illness has to be part of the cure.changing lifestyle has to help huh?
maybe in everything until it comes to guns eh??

Lifestyle will cure an awful lot of problems we face in America. I know of none that are perfect, regardless of their political or religious beliefs. Guns aren't the cause of illness, either.

If guns can not create mental illnesses, perhaps explain to all of us the few million documented PTSD cases that involve patients dealing with traumic moments with such tools. Either on a battlefield, in their house, a movie theater in Colorado, or a small town in New England. The numerous examples would simply tell any reasonable person that guns can and do, create mental and emotional problems. Not just in children but adults as well. And that it takes...years....to treat even the relatively mild cases.

Seriously? Are you really attempting to blame an inert object that can't do anything on it's own other than be there? Your question showed precisely what is going on. The whole PTSD ... patients ... traumatic moments thing. The PTSD wasn't caused by the presence of a gun. How many people in the military have PTSD that have never been in a combat situation? They still have guns, don't they? Unless you have some congenital fear of guns (which would be irrational without any previous trauma), a gun by itself, can not cause mental illness. And, that they deal with a traumatic experience (that caused the PTSD) with a gun isn't proof that a gun caused the PTSD or even the trauma itself.

The trauma, the problem, the PTSD, can all be attributed to what the gun was used for, not the gun itself. Without previous exposure to some trauma involving a gun, no one is going to have some debilitating fear of a gun.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
LMFAO...when you come up with a cure ..let me know.
we know what some of the problems are, and they are alll impossible to allow according to people like yourself, poverty, healthcare, mental health, will not be helped by libertarian views, such as personal responsibility, self reliance.
Not everyone is as perfect as those espousing such, and god isnt gonna help out.
Eliminating a cause of the illness has to be part of the cure.changing lifestyle has to help huh?
maybe in everything until it comes to guns eh??

Lifestyle will cure an awful lot of problems we face in America. I know of none that are perfect, regardless of their political or religious beliefs. Guns aren't the cause of illness, either.

If guns can not create mental illnesses, perhaps explain to all of us the few million documented PTSD cases that involve patients dealing with traumic moments with such tools. Either on a battlefield, in their house, a movie theater in Colorado, or a small town in New England. The numerous examples would simply tell any reasonable person that guns can and do, create mental and emotional problems. Not just in children but adults as well. And that it takes...years....to treat even the relatively mild cases.

Seriously? Are you really attempting to blame an inert object that can't do anything on it's own other than be there? Your question showed precisely what is going on. The whole PTSD ... patients ... traumatic moments thing. The PTSD wasn't caused by the presence of a gun. How many people in the military have PTSD that have never been in a combat situation? They still have guns, don't they? Unless you have some congenital fear of guns (which would be irrational without any previous trauma), a gun by itself, can not cause mental illness. And, that they deal with a traumatic experience (that caused the PTSD) with a gun isn't proof that a gun caused the PTSD or even the trauma itself.
The trauma, the problem, the PTSD, can all be attributed to what the gun was used for, not the gun itself. Without previous exposure to some trauma involving a gun, no one is going to have some debilitating fear of a gun.

How many little kids from Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, CT, do you think DONT have PSTD due to firearms? Very traumatic day for the whole of them. They saw numerous examples. Heard many bullets fired. Knew many of the victims on a very initimate basis. The person that held the firearms, pulling the trigger, round after round, is not the object of their agony; its the gun itself! Place those guns that killed their friends and teachers on a table before them. Inform them, those are indeed the guns that did the evil. Ask them how they feel about those guns sitting there? We already KNOW why we dont do it. Well, most of us except folks like you apartly. Those guns would simply evoke flashbacks of that nightmare that even eight weeks after the dreadful day, are STILL in their minds. Just seeing those guns on that table, would undermine many of the healing efforts that started just hours after the shooting.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
LMFAO...when you come up with a cure ..let me know.
we know what some of the problems are, and they are alll impossible to allow according to people like yourself, poverty, healthcare, mental health, will not be helped by libertarian views, such as personal responsibility, self reliance.
Not everyone is as perfect as those espousing such, and god isnt gonna help out.
Eliminating a cause of the illness has to be part of the cure.changing lifestyle has to help huh?
maybe in everything until it comes to guns eh??

Lifestyle will cure an awful lot of problems we face in America. I know of none that are perfect, regardless of their political or religious beliefs. Guns aren't the cause of illness, either.

If guns can not create mental illnesses, perhaps explain to all of us the few million documented PTSD cases that involve patients dealing with traumic moments with such tools. Either on a battlefield, in their house, a movie theater in Colorado, or a small town in New England. The numerous examples would simply tell any reasonable person that guns can and do, create mental and emotional problems. Not just in children but adults as well. And that it takes...years....to treat even the relatively mild cases.

Seriously? Are you really attempting to blame an inert object that can't do anything on it's own other than be there? Your question showed precisely what is going on. The whole PTSD ... patients ... traumatic moments thing. The PTSD wasn't caused by the presence of a gun. How many people in the military have PTSD that have never been in a combat situation? They still have guns, don't they? Unless you have some congenital fear of guns (which would be irrational without any previous trauma), a gun by itself, can not cause mental illness. And, that they deal with a traumatic experience (that caused the PTSD) with a gun isn't proof that a gun caused the PTSD or even the trauma itself.
The trauma, the problem, the PTSD, can all be attributed to what the gun was used for, not the gun itself. Without previous exposure to some trauma involving a gun, no one is going to have some debilitating fear of a gun.

How many little kids from Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, CT, do you think DONT have PSTD due to firearms? Very traumatic day for the whole of them. They saw numerous examples. Heard many bullets fired. Knew many of the victims on a very initimate basis. The person that held the firearms, pulling the trigger, round after round, is not the object of their agony; its the gun itself! Place those guns that killed their friends and teachers on a table before them. Inform them, those are indeed the guns that did the evil. Ask them how they feel about those guns sitting there? We already KNOW why we dont do it. Well, most of us except folks like you apartly. Those guns would simply evoke flashbacks of that nightmare that even eight weeks after the dreadful day, are STILL in their minds. Just seeing those guns on that table, would undermine many of the healing efforts that started just hours after the shooting.

Are you saying that they have PTSD because of a firearm, but wouldn't have PTSD had the murderer instead beat 28 to death with a baseball bat? I believe it was the event, in this case involving a gun, that causes the trauma, not the tool used. Yes, they'll most likely have some issue with guns later in life, but that's because it was the tool used. And, by "issue," I mean they'll have some mental thing revolving around guns, be it evidenced as a phobia or a lust.