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Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 1/31/2013 5:35:33 PM

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Here's the IRS via CNSNEWS on Obamacare -

For those wondering how clear the IRS's clarifications of this new "penalty" rule are, here is one of the actual examples the IRS gives:

“Example 3. Family without minimum essential coverage.

"(i) In 2016, Taxpayers H and J are married and file a joint return. H and J have three children: K, age 21, L, age 15, and M, age 10. No member of the family has minimum essential coverage for any month in 2016. H and J’s household income is $120,000. H and J’s applicable filing threshold is $24,000. The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000.

"(ii) For each month in 2016, under paragraphs (b)(2)(ii) and (b)(2)(iii) of this section, the applicable dollar amount is $2,780 (($695 x 3 adults) + (($695/2) x 2 children)). Under paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, the flat dollar amount is $2,085 (the lesser of $2,780 and $2,085 ($695 x 3)). Under paragraph (b)(3) of this section, the excess income amount is $2,400 (($120,000 - $24,000) x 0.025). Therefore, under paragraph (b)(1) of this section, the monthly penalty amount is $200 (the greater of $173.75 ($2,085/12) or $200 ($2,400/12)).

"(iii) The sum of the monthly penalty amounts is $2,400 ($200 x 12). The sum of the monthly national average bronze plan premiums is $20,000 ($20,000/12 x 12). Therefore, under paragraph (a) of this section, the shared responsibility payment imposed on H and J for 2016 is $2,400 (the lesser of $2,400 or $20,000).” (bolding added)

Quite cost effective 20K/year for a family of 4-5.

or the penalty, er, tax, and get nothing

enjoy

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 1/31/2013 5:38:11 PM >

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 1/31/2013 6:38:35 PM

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Didn't they also fuck with the medical itemization, too? So, even if you're paying cash for all your services, you'll have to pay more to qualify for a credit than previously?

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Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 1/31/2013 10:50:02 PM

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Yep, 2400, plus out of pocket expenses for all medical care (at an income level of 120K they arent about to ignore medical bills and risk the problems) as well as an increase on taxes of 10% AGI on medical deductions, up from 7.5% for most unless someone is 65 or older. http://www.gilbertcpa.com/?p=1727

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/1/2013 4:34:10 AM

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So remind me which party was rabidly opposed to the inclusion of a single payer provision in the ACA to prevent this sort of thing?

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/1/2013 8:10:08 AM

fucktoyprincess

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So remind me which party was rabidly opposed to the inclusion of a single payer provision in the ACA to prevent this sort of thing?

File under "be careful what you wish for"......

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/1/2013 11:26:16 AM

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It was understood from the start Obamacare was designed as a corporate welfare program to insurance companies and as the evolution of the medical racket in general. Now when it becomes evident some pretend to be surprised.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/1/2013 4:04:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Here's the IRS via CNSNEWS on Obamacare -

For those wondering how clear the IRS's clarifications of this new "penalty" rule are, here is one of the actual examples the IRS gives:

“Example 3. Family without minimum essential coverage.

"(i) In 2016, Taxpayers H and J are married and file a joint return. H and J have three children: K, age 21, L, age 15, and M, age 10. No member of the family has minimum essential coverage for any month in 2016. H and J’s household income is $120,000. H and J’s applicable filing threshold is $24,000. The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000.

"(ii) For each month in 2016, under paragraphs (b)(2)(ii) and (b)(2)(iii) of this section, the applicable dollar amount is $2,780 (($695 x 3 adults) + (($695/2) x 2 children)). Under paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, the flat dollar amount is $2,085 (the lesser of $2,780 and $2,085 ($695 x 3)). Under paragraph (b)(3) of this section, the excess income amount is $2,400 (($120,000 - $24,000) x 0.025). Therefore, under paragraph (b)(1) of this section, the monthly penalty amount is $200 (the greater of $173.75 ($2,085/12) or $200 ($2,400/12)).

"(iii) The sum of the monthly penalty amounts is $2,400 ($200 x 12). The sum of the monthly national average bronze plan premiums is $20,000 ($20,000/12 x 12). Therefore, under paragraph (a) of this section, the shared responsibility payment imposed on H and J for 2016 is $2,400 (the lesser of $2,400 or $20,000).” (bolding added)

Quite cost effective 20K/year for a family of 4-5. or the penalty, er, tax, and get nothing

enjoy

Those are some pretty fucking odd names for children.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/1/2013 4:11:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

It was understood from the start Obamacare was designed as a corporate welfare program to insurance companies and as the evolution of the medical racket in general. Now when it becomes evident some pretend to be surprised.

What's so hilarious to me is...

Nobody "gets it".

This has NOTHING to do with health care, lowering costs, caring for you....it has to do with one very simple fact:

This is a new government program derived to siphon off funds into a gigantic fucking cesspool of a black hole wherein which they can say "we got your back". It's a new fucking pot for them to dip into....nothing more.

They don't have your back....when the hell has the government had your back?

This is a new pool of money, just like SSI, Medicare and others wherein which they can tell you...."we got you"....and in 15 years they'll tell you...."FUCK....we fucked up man...we need more money....sorry....seriously, we fucked up.....sorry again....wasn't our intent but boy did we fuck up....gonna have to pony up....all of you....sorry again....my bad....oooops....sorry...we'll need a few more bucks...it won't be that much....yep....yeah yeah...I know...we fucked up....a bit more cash....thanks for caring about those other than you...'cause that's what we're doing (honest....really)....sorry again...."

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/1/2013 4:58:39 PM

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I got it. I got it the minute I read the bill all those few years ago.

I knew then it would be passed.

I knew what they were doing, and its all falling in line.

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/1/2013 6:15:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Those are some pretty fucking odd names for children.

It's a Men in Black family... Duh.

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/2/2013 5:32:02 AM

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Well this just 'shows to go ya'...even the Heritage Foundation but of course as one was to expect, the repub counter to 'Hillarycare' in 92-93...was very complicated and flawed. (samething kinkroids)

I rather regulate providers and suppliers (as other countries) away from the American tradition of maximized profits, pay 1/2 as much as Americans and...live 3-4 years longer. How 'bout you ?

Rather this is the cost of doing business...the 'American' way.

As I've tried to tell you here, there is no such thing as 'reform' in America. Govt. is lobbied to simply re-arrange the profit structure and they being still maximized and the great capitalist proletariat long since too poor to afford it (without debt and bankruptcies)...engage uncle sam to fill in the gap.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/2/2013 5:40:39 AM >

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/2/2013 6:42:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Well this just 'shows to go ya'...even the Heritage Foundation but of course as one was to expect, the repub counter to 'Hillarycare' in 92-93...was very complicated and flawed. (samething kinkroids)
I rather regulate providers and suppliers (as other countries) away from the American tradition of maximized profits, pay 1/2 as much as Americans and...live 3-4 years longer. How 'bout you ?
Rather this is the cost of doing business...the 'American' way.
As I've tried to tell you here, there is no such thing as 'reform' in America. Govt. is lobbied to simply re-arrange the profit structure and they being still maximized and the great capitalist proletariat long since too poor to afford it (without debt and bankruptcies)...engage uncle sam to fill in the gap.

The problem with the assumption that adopting the same policies of Country X will get us the same cost/benefit structures of Country X. Unless Country X started where we are, we very easily may not enjoy the same benefits. You want to cut down on the cost of care? Obamacare cuts down on the reimbursement rates for Medicare. Instead of enacting Obamacare, they could have stopped passing Doc Fix Bills. But, they can't seem to do that, now, can they? What makes anyone think that will change?

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/2/2013 12:03:45 PM

tj444

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here is a new vid on Whole Foods existing health plan and he says that when Romneycare came in that invitro became covered and just that one item raised every health plan there by $850/yr.. not to mention all the other optional stuff that can become covered.. the choice is gonna be not able to afford their health plan and ultimately affect wages..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUkDPvvzbgA

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/5/2013 10:02:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Here's the IRS via CNSNEWS on Obamacare -

For those wondering how clear the IRS's clarifications of this new "penalty" rule are, here is one of the actual examples the IRS gives:

“Example 3. Family without minimum essential coverage.

"(i) In 2016, Taxpayers H and J are married and file a joint return. H and J have three children: K, age 21, L, age 15, and M, age 10. No member of the family has minimum essential coverage for any month in 2016. H and J’s household income is $120,000. H and J’s applicable filing threshold is $24,000. The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000.

"(ii) For each month in 2016, under paragraphs (b)(2)(ii) and (b)(2)(iii) of this section, the applicable dollar amount is $2,780 (($695 x 3 adults) + (($695/2) x 2 children)). Under paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, the flat dollar amount is $2,085 (the lesser of $2,780 and $2,085 ($695 x 3)). Under paragraph (b)(3) of this section, the excess income amount is $2,400 (($120,000 - $24,000) x 0.025). Therefore, under paragraph (b)(1) of this section, the monthly penalty amount is $200 (the greater of $173.75 ($2,085/12) or $200 ($2,400/12)).

"(iii) The sum of the monthly penalty amounts is $2,400 ($200 x 12). The sum of the monthly national average bronze plan premiums is $20,000 ($20,000/12 x 12). Therefore, under paragraph (a) of this section, the shared responsibility payment imposed on H and J for 2016 is $2,400 (the lesser of $2,400 or $20,000).” (bolding added)

Quite cost effective 20K/year for a family of 4-5. or the penalty, er, tax, and get nothing

enjoy

You are wanting tears for someone pulling down 120,000 a year? Fuck me..lol.........gotta be kidding

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/24/2013 3:08:41 AM

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Funny, this thread got to 14 posts without anyone pointing out that the OP mistook a hypothetical number the IRS pulled out of its ass for a real study of health insurance plan costs.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/24/2013 6:38:11 AM

WantsOfTheFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fmfclwu
Funny, this thread got to 14 posts without anyone pointing out that the OP mistook a hypothetical number the IRS pulled out of its ass for a real study of health insurance plan costs.

so the irs is picking worst case scenarios for political reasons?

quote:

The IRS's assumption that the cheapest plan for a family will cost $20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan... “The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000,” the regulation says.

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/24/2013 8:15:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fmfclwu

Funny, this thread got to 14 posts without anyone pointing out that the OP mistook a hypothetical number the IRS pulled out of its ass for a real study of health insurance plan costs.

I wish people would quit pointing out the obvious, by doing that you force the thread to take a turn into a meaningful discussion of the problem....

We cannot have meaningful discussions here, it upsets the delicate digestive systems of some of the more lunatic of posters, which results in a flood of written diarrhea that gets worse with each passing minute.

As for Obamacare, some of the plan makes sense, the mandate however is bullshit. The Republicans came up with it when Clinton was pushing for health care reform and the dems resurrected it for Obama care.

If anyone came up with a workable plan for health care reform that every side agreed with, the following day the planet would get hit with an asteroid the size of New Zealand.

Health care in this country is screwed up so bad that the only way to fix it is to restructure the whole system in such a way that there is a limit to the percentage of profits an Insurance provider and care providers can make and doctors are not at risk for being sued if someone hits one of the risks in the procedure performed.

Malpractice in my opinion is when the doctor makes a mistake that a first year med student has the common sense to avoid. Malpractice does not include the incidence of risks that are inherent in a procedure. Contrary to what all these tv commercials for law firms in the business of suing doctors and hospitals would like people to believe.

And to the first person that says we need socialized medical care, I would remind them of the costs of such programs and what is going on in countries that have such programs that are reducing funding to those programs.

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(in reply to fmfclwu)

RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/24/2013 8:22:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
You are wanting tears for someone pulling down 120,000 a year? Fuck me..lol.........gotta be kidding

LOL... this is America. We don't care about the poor, the homeless, the starving. But yeah... once you get up to maybe 100k or year or more you start being a person so people care. When you're a banker you qualify for welfare.

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/24/2013 10:24:11 AM

WantsOfTheFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
You are wanting tears for someone pulling down 120,000 a year? Fuck me..lol.........gotta be kidding

LOL... this is America. We don't care about the poor, the homeless, the starving. But yeah... once you get up to maybe 100k or year or more you start being a person so people care. When you're a banker you qualify for welfare.

did you guys miss tha bit about 120k being tha entire income of a family? thats hardly tha 1%.

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RE: Cost of doing business, the Obamacare way - 2/24/2013 10:24:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmfclwu
Funny, this thread got to 14 posts without anyone pointing out that the OP mistook a hypothetical number the IRS pulled out of its ass for a real study of health insurance plan costs.

I wish people would quit pointing out the obvious, by doing that you force the thread to take a turn into a meaningful discussion of the problem....
We cannot have meaningful discussions here, it upsets the delicate digestive systems of some of the more lunatic of posters, which results in a flood of written diarrhea that gets worse with each passing minute.
As for Obamacare, some of the plan makes sense, the mandate however is bullshit. The Republicans came up with it when Clinton was pushing for health care reform and the dems resurrected it for Obama care.
If anyone came up with a workable plan for health care reform that every side agreed with, the following day the planet would get hit with an asteroid the size of New Zealand.

I have it 100% legit made up intel that on December 19th, a car accident took out a guy on his way to DC. He carried his laptop with him that had a plan that both sides could agree on, and that would easily and quickly cut care costs by 75% and increase quality by 200%. He didn't have Carbonite® (Cha-Ching!) and no other backups, so the plan was lost in the accident. I've had several discussions with completely imaginary people that have 3rd cousins twice removed that state this is the reason the Mayan Calendar Armageddon didn't happen. Had this guy made it to DC, you're right. Asteroid. Boom! End of the world.

At least he was shot. lol

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to jlf1961)

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