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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

He said Officer Valle had also been charged with illegally accessing a law enforcement database to gain information about some of the women he was “explicitly targeting.”

That, for me, just might take it from fantasy to reality.

I missed that part and they can charge him with that, but I am not sure what the sentencing guidelines and how long they can lock him up.

As I said, if I were sitting on a jury, that may be enough to tip me from the fantasy line to the reality line. Enough in itself? Not necessarily. But it could tip the scaled depending on other evidence.

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ORIGINAL: samboct

I think she's got grounds for divorce- but not much else.

Let's try a somewhat different case- one that's a bit more prosaic shall we? Let's say I'm thinking about robbing a bank. I'm parked in my car across the street from the bank- I've written the hold up note, got duct tape, a bag to carry the money in, black spray paint and I'm wearing a ski mask and gloves. No gun though- why kill somebody over pieces of paper? Have I committed a crime? What happens if I look at myself in the mirror and decide there's got to be a better way to make a living and I don't want to risk jail- drive home, and throw all the stuff away?

Should I be prosecuted for thinking about robbing a bank? Conspiring to rob a bank if I enlisted a getaway driver? Or was no crime committed at all?

There's a really good movie that deals with the thin line between criminal and hero- Taxi Driver with DeNiro and Jodie Foster.

Sam

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Fred and Barney agree to rob the First National Bank of Bedrock. Without more than just an agreement, most jurisdictions today would not hold Fred or Barney liable for conspiracy. However, if Fred drives the getaway car to the bank and parks it outside the bank so that Barney will have a means of escape, both Fred and Barney would immediately be guilty of conspiracy. (Fred's overt act crystallizes the conspiracy and thus makes Barney guilty as well.) Even if the crime is planned for Wednesday night and on Monday, Fred goes out and buys a gun for Barney to use during the robbery, this would be considered an overt act and both parties would immediately be guilty of conspiracy.

http://nationalparalegal.edu/public_documents/courseware_asp_files/criminalLaw/inchoateOffenses/Conspiracy.asp

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

It's a shame someone couldn't have posted a political thread so you could use "the Kenyan", "the chimp" and "Captain Magicpants" in a post that was actually on topic. But I guess as long as you get your daily fix, it's all good. Maybe someday you will get over your obsession with grade school insults, but I won't hold my breath.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

SOURCE

The prosecution charges that Gilberto Valle conspired to kidnap, rape and murder his wife and several other women and then cook then and eat them. They contend that discussions on an internet message board and in emails constitute a conspiracy to commit the crimes.

The defense argue that it was a harmless fetish fantasy and no crime was committed. The defense raises the issue of freedom of speech and thought. Therefore the state should have no interest.

The additional issue to my mind: are some fantasies beyond the pale? Are they so violent and harmful as to constitute a crime in the contemplation? Is Gilberto a menace to society for expressing his thoughts on a fetish board specifically devoted to the particular fantasy?

Also, always of interest to me is the question of free will in harboring fetishes.

Your thoughts, please.

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Let's try a somewhat different case- one that's a bit more prosaic shall we? Let's say I'm thinking about robbing a bank. I'm parked in my car across the street from the bank- I've written the hold up note, got duct tape, a bag to carry the money in, black spray paint and I'm wearing a ski mask and gloves. No gun though- why kill somebody over pieces of paper? Have I committed a crime? What happens if I look at myself in the mirror and decide there's got to be a better way to make a living and I don't want to risk jail- drive home, and throw all the stuff away?

Should I be prosecuted for thinking about robbing a bank? Conspiring to rob a bank if I enlisted a getaway driver? Or was no crime committed at all?

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ORIGINAL: samboct
Let's try a somewhat different case- one that's a bit more prosaic shall we? Let's say I'm thinking about robbing a bank. I'm parked in my car across the street from the bank- I've written the hold up note, got duct tape, a bag to carry the money in, black spray paint and I'm wearing a ski mask and gloves. No gun though- why kill somebody over pieces of paper? Have I committed a crime? What happens if I look at myself in the mirror and decide there's got to be a better way to make a living and I don't want to risk jail- drive home, and throw all the stuff away?

Should I be prosecuted for thinking about robbing a bank? Conspiring to rob a bank if I enlisted a getaway driver? Or was no crime committed at all?

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ORIGINAL: muhly22222
And if you did all of that with a getaway driver...yes, you'd be guilty of conspiracy, because you agreed to a plan to commit a crime and took overt acts leading to that (purchasing the materials, driving to the bank, etc.).

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ORIGINAL: muhly22222

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Let's try a somewhat different case- one that's a bit more prosaic shall we? Let's say I'm thinking about robbing a bank. I'm parked in my car across the street from the bank- I've written the hold up note, got duct tape, a bag to carry the money in, black spray paint and I'm wearing a ski mask and gloves. No gun though- why kill somebody over pieces of paper? Have I committed a crime? What happens if I look at myself in the mirror and decide there's got to be a better way to make a living and I don't want to risk jail- drive home, and throw all the stuff away?

Should I be prosecuted for thinking about robbing a bank? Conspiring to rob a bank if I enlisted a getaway driver? Or was no crime committed at all?

Let's say a police officer saw you in your car with all of that and the ski mask on while you were parked across the street from a bank. Should he wait until you've actually entered the bank to arrest you? I say no. At that point, you could have been charged with attempted bank robbery. Once you've manifested an intent to commit a crime and taken substantial steps toward completing that commission of a crime, you have to physically manifest an intent to abandon the crime before you can no longer be charged with attempt. Driving away would be a manifestation of intent to abandon.

And if you did all of that with a getaway driver...yes, you'd be guilty of conspiracy, because you agreed to a plan to commit a crime and took overt acts leading to that (purchasing the materials, driving to the bank, etc.).

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

SOURCE

The prosecution charges that Gilberto Valle conspired to kidnap, rape and murder his wife and several other women and then cook then and eat them. They contend that discussions on an internet message board and in emails constitute a conspiracy to commit the crimes.

The defense argue that it was a harmless fetish fantasy and no crime was committed. The defense raises the issue of freedom of speech and thought. Therefore the state should have no interest.

The additional issue to my mind: are some fantasies beyond the pale? Are they so violent and harmful as to constitute a crime in the contemplation? Is Gilberto a menace to society for expressing his thoughts on a fetish board specifically devoted to the particular fantasy?

Also, always of interest to me is the question of free will in harboring fetishes.

Your thoughts, please.

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

SOURCE

The prosecution charges that Gilberto Valle conspired to kidnap, rape and murder his wife and several other women and then cook then and eat them. They contend that discussions on an internet message board and in emails constitute a conspiracy to commit the crimes.

The defense argue that it was a harmless fetish fantasy and no crime was committed. The defense raises the issue of freedom of speech and thought. Therefore the state should have no interest.

The additional issue to my mind: are some fantasies beyond the pale? Are they so violent and harmful as to constitute a crime in the contemplation? Is Gilberto a menace to society for expressing his thoughts on a fetish board specifically devoted to the particular fantasy?

Also, always of interest to me is the question of free will in harboring fetishes.

Your thoughts, please.

Amazing.

He didn't kill anyone.

He didn't cook anyone.

He didn't eat anyone that had been killed and or cooked.

(What am I missing here?)

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Being a libertarian, I have to come down on the choice of freedom. I didn't read the article.