RE: THe art of submission (Full Version)

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Kana -> RE: THe art of submission (3/7/2013 1:34:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

THanks, here I go with more crazy questions.

Dress, does dress help? I am a jeans girl LOVE THEM! I might wear a sexy top but its usually paired with jeans.
IM thinking maybe I should try some skirts? TO make me feel more feminine.

Who cares what she's wearing? Her ass is gonna be naked damn skippy soon. The only thing I care about her clothes is how they'll look hanging from the ceiling fan.

quote:

Why don't you self-righteous hypocrites shut the hell up of what your narrow views of submission is a gift.Unless your a real sub yourself,how the hell do you know what submission is?Just spewing your 2 cents which isn't worth 1 cent.

You people who get upset about the term "submission is a gift" get pissed because you know its the truth.You lousy doms should be lucky,any sane person would even want to submit to your sorry asses in the first place.



Of course it's not a gift. A gift is, by definition, something freely given with no expectations of anything in return. Accept someone's submission and, unless you are one of those "lousy doms" you discuss, you are taking on a whole shit ton of responsibility and accountability.
Wham bam, thank you Maam-Now that can be a gift. But long term submission-naaaaah, not a chance in hell.



angelikaJ -> RE: THe art of submission (3/7/2013 2:27:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

This is a question for masters, subs, anyone really who has any input.

What are the tricks of the trade to show complete submission in the bedroom? I am not a natural submission, other then doing as a master/dom wishes, is there something else I am missing here?

I understand that everyone has different dynamics and likes so what submission is for one might not be the cup of tea for another.

WHen you are generally more dominant, and attempting to be submissive (a genuine will to do it) it is a little hard to understand how to show it completely. I feel like I am missing something.

I guess my question is, was there a pivotal moment, you knew you were there? Or to the masters was there a pivotal moment you knew your sub was there?




If you are not naturally submissive, and submission is a struggle for you, why do you think being a submissive is a good fit for you?
Is it possible that you are a bottom or to put it another way, want the kinky parts but not the rest?

If that is so, then there is nothing wrong with you aside from the fact that currently you are trying to fit somewhere you don't: submission when you aren't submissive.

What helps to be a good submissive is having the true desire to be a good submissive.

edit: typo



sexyred1 -> RE: THe art of submission (3/7/2013 2:49:01 PM)

Interesting thread.

My take?

There is no art to submission; there an art to communication, which is the cornerstone of ANY relationship, vanilla or BDSM.

You can be submissive or a bottom or just kinky, but that is not an art, it is just how one is wired.

As mentioned before by others, you cannot force yourself to be a certain role to please someone else; if it not authentic, eventually it will be found out and fail.

Re: dressing the part? I don't think you need to dress a particular way to be submissive. I am very girly girl, and I LOVE wearing hot items if the guy I am with likes it. Some guys love lingerie or leather or just naked; I do what I know would turn them on, since that turns me on. Plus, dressing kind of slutty in the bedroom is fun as hell.

Nothing external like clothing or toys can replace the internal desire to be something. It might help reinforce it, but it all comes from being confident about who and what you are.

I never seem to have the intellectual worry that so many have in trying to identify who they are in BDSM. I was born a very dominant personality, am dominant in daily life, yet knew by early childhood I am sexually submissive. That never bothered me at all; I seemed to understand we can be multifaceted very early on.

As far as the OP's guy saying she needs to be more submissive? I find that a strange comment. No one ever told me to be more submissive; I either was highly submissive or somewhat submissive and that all depended on the Dominant inspiration I got from the guy.



angelikaJ -> RE: THe art of submission (3/7/2013 3:36:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

Thanks for all the info again. Good posts.

A comment was made to me " I want you more submissive then you have ever been" Well I really dont know how much submissive one can be with they are doing exactly as told, not arguing, doing it in good spirits without an agenda, pleasing and giving all. IT could have been a very benign comment but I took it as " you are not submissive enough" I also asked "what is missing" and without a response.


I can understand how you could interpret that negatively, but what if he wan't really asking you for something concrete?
What if his desired intent was for you to just be more imaginative about what submission is to you?

To me that statement is more of a role play gambit kind of thing, and you translated it differently than it was meant... is that a possibility?




LillyBoPeep -> RE: THe art of submission (3/7/2013 6:51:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12


and if i was going to act the role of submissive, i would go for pretty petticoats and garter belts and soulfully gaze at the object of my "submission".The problem for me with that is that isn't submission - its acting. And since i'm real, it won't work. And it probably won't/wouldn't have worked with my fellas - because it would become obvious after a while (if not sooner) that i was acting.

Most people i know want someone who is real and living their life as realistically as possible. Nothing wrong with a bit of role playing or acting - but don't confuse it with reality.


agreed!



LadyPact -> RE: THe art of submission (3/7/2013 7:43:06 PM)

OP, can I ask you a serious question?

Is this your husband saying "show how submissive you can be" or some new guy on the horizon? Yeah, it matters. If your spouse is challenging you about the whole submissive thing, you're in the position of proving yourself and your needs outside the relationship. If it's somebody new, they have ulterior motives. Neither of which is something I'd be willing to cow tow to someone else's expectations.



littlewonder -> RE: THe art of submission (3/7/2013 9:01:50 PM)

I would guess that what he meant was don't argue. Don't talk back. Don't do it with a grimace. Do it with a smile on your face and mean it. Actually mean it. Don't tell him you don't like something....just do it with a "Yes Sir" and nothing else. Don't dawdle. Do things for him that he likes and without him having to ask. Do things you know that would make his life easier. When he wants something don't say "wait a minute". Jump up and do it and if you can't, explain why you couldn't (dinner was burning) and hope for the best. Apologize when you know you are wrong.

These are just a few ideas. However, these things are only going to work with someone you know as well as yourself, like your husband, hopefully. If it's outside of your marriage which I'm guessing is, then this level will never be reached and I'd say this is all nothing but being kinky in the bedroom.

Hopefully though, you can use these tips for your marriage. If you start doing these things for your husband, you may find yourself the man you fell in love with in the first place. My experience has been that when marriages have fallen apart, it's because both got too comfortable with each other and forgot who the other person was or they stopped trying because the other person stopped trying. The other person decided loving their partner was no longer important.

So wanna see your husband more dominant? Follow the suggestions above.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 3:42:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I would guess that what he meant was don't argue. Don't talk back. Don't do it with a grimace. Do it with a smile on your face and mean it. Actually mean it. Don't tell him you don't like something....just do it with a "Yes Sir" and nothing else. Don't dawdle. Do things for him that he likes and without him having to ask. Do things you know that would make his life easier. When he wants something don't say "wait a minute". Jump up and do it and if you can't, explain why you couldn't (dinner was burning) and hope for the best. Apologize when you know you are wrong.



I see all these things as having to do with the art of submission, which I suppose you could call 'pleasing 101.'

We've talked on other threads (not just you and I, but the forum as a whole) about submission being about obedience, and it is, but it is ALSO about being pleasing. If Himself asks for a diet coke and I grumble as I get up to go fetch it, sure, I'm being obedient, but I'm not being pleasing. Being pleasing is saying: Do you need more ice? Can I get you anything else? And having a big smile and an obvious willingness to be found pleasing as I say it.

It's what *I* look for in a sub, not just being willing to obey, but being willing to please.







LillyBoPeep -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 6:14:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


As far as the OP's guy saying she needs to be more submissive? I find that a strange comment. No one ever told me to be more submissive; I either was highly submissive or somewhat submissive and that all depended on the Dominant inspiration I got from the guy.


I also agree with this - we read a lot here about someone asking another to be "more" XYZ - but that person doesn't do much more on their end of things. They expect this person to make the changes in a vacuum, while supplying nothing from their side to motivate or inspire it.

A sub who challenges a D to be more dominant, and then flouts everything, and back talks, and just generally doesn't try, is probably not going to get anywhere.
A D who challenges a sub to be moreso, but then is inconsistent, indeterminate, or just generally not there, isn't going to get anywhere either.

There's only so far you can go if you attempt to submit to yourself. =p If you have nothing else to submit to.



chatterbox24 -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 6:27:53 AM)

To answer some questions.

My marriage has grown its better by leaps and bounds. The relationship I am referring too is established, not new.
I am very aware of my imperfections and mistakes. The situation is very controlled, and for a limited amount of time, it varies very little, so with the repetition I can replay moment by moment, and have had a very long time to get it right. So the comment "Be more submissive then you have ever been" stumped me. Because the whole process has been about obeying, pleasing willingly, and getting a real feel of it coming from within. Practice makes perfect. He very well may have meant "be more imaginative" too.
Communication is a real problem. It is very common for things asked to be left ignorred or refused. SO thats why I asked on this board, but in actuallity the ( dom) partner should be giving the answers. Again, I was trying to be submissive and think, well he doesnt want to answer, he is the dom, I dont like it but let it go. But it is not very satisfying sometimes.
I very well may not submissive, but I do enjoy playing the role and it has been inspired. But I do see the creeping dom traits of mine crop up later, wanting to demand what I want. But by suppressing them, I think it has benefitted me on control of emotions(temperment), and been a very positive experience in that respect.
To enhance, since that comment was made, I wanted to take it a step further, and I guess do some tweeking and editing.

There is consistancy, alot of it, but communication is not there.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 6:35:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24


Communication is a real problem. It is very common for things asked to be left ignorred or refused. SO thats why I asked on this board, but in actuallity the ( dom) partner should be giving the answers. Again, I was trying to be submissive and think, well he doesnt want to answer, he is the dom, I dont like it but let it go. But it is not very satisfying sometimes.
<snip>
There is consistancy, alot of it, but communication is not there.


Some refusal is expected - what types of things are you asking for that are being refused? What types of things are you asking that are being ignored?

A situation where I felt it was COMMON for me to be ignored would become unstable for me.
This isn't solely up to you to fix; If he wants you to be more submissive, that means more responsibility for him, on the flip side, and if he isn't willing to take a hold of that, then that's problematic.

Can you guys sit down and talk about this? And have some dedicated time for rebuilding communication? Because, no matter what you do, until the communication is fixed, there will always be problems. If he wants X of you, but doesn't relay that, if you ask for specific direction and he ignores it - what can you guys possibly do?




chatterbox24 -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 6:46:28 AM)

There are others, it is not an exclusive relationship. Mentally he and I are very connected, daily contact, but as you have read its not perfect.
I have no problem that there are others ( might be one might be 3) this I dont know. I can not always be there, so I have no problem with needs being met. This didnt happen overnight. I used to respond with a volatile reaction. My temper was outrageious.
BUt I did ask. Are these relationships established or new? His response. I dont feel you need to know that. and maybe I dont need to know that. My comment was With disclosure comes trust. Then I left it alone.
I have no desire to participate with these other's, so maybe I dont need to know. But that is one example of a nondisclosure.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 6:56:10 AM)

Yeeaaaah... I wouldn't go for a situation like that, but that's just me. He wants you to trust him with your health and safety, with regards to unnamed mystery partners, but gives you no reason to trust. =p
I mean, some people are fine with "Don't ask, Don't tell" in their poly relationships, so I'm not saying it can't work - but those things do grow up out of trust and belief that the person won't make decisions that will jeopardize the other partner. If all I have of someone is being ignored, and "you don't need to know," I have no reason to trust.



chatterbox24 -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 7:11:41 AM)

One reason I let it go is because I asked myself. What is the real reason you need to know?

Due to past history, I in no way feel my health is jeopardized. This is not a trust issue for me. I could use it for an excuse as to why I asked, but really I think I ask out of curiousity more then anything. and to deepen trust too. Those are the sincere reasons I would ask.
BUt I have been a true firecracker, and known for going off frequently. Because of that it might be He doesnt trust me or my reaction due to that history of mine.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 7:19:31 AM)

Well that does make sense, and it's cool that you recognize that old bad behavior. I think it says a lot of positive that you're motivating yourself to learn and change through the different situations you're encountering. If you were blowing up at the drop of a hat, then I can see why someone may not want to say certain things, in an effort to avoid causing it.

perhaps that's a part of his trust that you're earning back? It's definitely a two-way street, the communication thing. Relearning how to talk to and respond to each other.

Do you know what his idea of "more submissive" is, since that's what you're shooting for?






OsideGirl -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 8:15:54 AM)

Are you back with the original guy?



chatterbox24 -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 9:26:11 AM)

More submissive might be more outside of a physical situation. I have had a huge tendency to try to manipulative info I have wanted but was denied. A terrible time taking no for an answer. I got very good at doing this with people, in all kinds of different ways. If I wanted it, I was gonna get it, and I had my tricks down pretty good.[:D]

I think it might be an action meeting the words type thing. Being consistant, not just saying something to be agreeable and not really meaning it. Say it, mean it, really feel it. Thinking things through instead of instant rambling of the mouth out of emotions. It might mean that. I do alot better about that but still I do have those moments where I am not in as control.

I do appreciate the wise input and opinions shared.

Osidegirl, no offense but I rather not share that information. I dont think it really matters.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 9:31:22 AM)

Well - see if you can get something clear from him, rather than being left to your own devices to figure out what you might think it is. Get something clear, some examples to think about. If someone has an issue with me and wants resolution, I really want to know what that thing is. It's more direct, and gets a more direct response. Because the things listed don't necessarily seem like being more submissive, it just seems like being a bit more polite, or calm and reasonable, you know?

But you're doing super well with self-analysis. Sometimes it's hard to admit negative things about ourselves, or where we've fallen down and not been our best. =p Kudos. ^_^



Dyfrynt -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 9:48:27 AM)

A comment was made to me " I want you more submissive then you have ever been" ......... IT could have been a very benign comment but I took it as " you are not submissive enough" I also asked "what is missing" and without a response.

Am I the only one who has a problem with his not being willing to answer the question? All these hints and ideas about how to be more submissive are great, and also problematic. Defining "more submissive" is different for everyone. If he is not willing to tell you what is missing how can you fill the void? Perhaps he means to have you stumbling around in the dark, and that is a training technique I have seen used. Its effectiveness is spotty.

If I were to make a suggestion it would be to get permission, if necessary, to have a discussion about the specifics of what he is looking for.

Because THE art of submission is how to most effectively please the individual you are with.



chatterbox24 -> RE: THe art of submission (3/8/2013 9:49:16 AM)

special thanks for the vote of confidence Lilly! not always easy to take a good long hard look at ourselves, but it does get easier, once one is willing to open that door.
I will take your advice.



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