RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus.

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (Full Version)

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MrRodgers -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 5:49:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie For now, as FX markets open... On the bright side, the ongoing financial disaster in the EU has been the only thing propping up the U.S. Dollar. K. Oh wonder of wonders... A theologists,a criminologists and now an economist......[;)] Thank god we have folks in charge who actually care what happenes and aren`t content to just gripe. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/01/us-markets-forex-idUSBRE9070IW20130201 "Euro broadly stronger, U.S. dollar up on yen after jobs data" Because the value of currencies is only in comparison to other currencies, this as is always in any case, a matter of speculation. So the logic is that the world has also as it has always had, a whole lot more confidence in the USD. Most are forced to do this because it is the world's reserve currency. This helps foreigners to export here and hurts US exports.

Yachtie -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 6:07:41 AM)
An interesting point was made, at a site I shall not name[;)], that there exists billions in Russian money (and others I'm sure) on deposit in Cyprus. Should this ~10% haircut happen those remaining funds could be withdrawn and sent elsewhere. Those funds dwarf the bailout itself. Given the nature of EU banking it would not be unconscionable that those funds would exit the EU. In short, given that the threat has been made and it appears nothing is sacred in EU banking, hell, those funds could leave anyway. It's getting very interesting. edit: The humor never ends

MrRodgers -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 6:26:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic AH the collapse is coming, thank god. Well yes but only as it doesn't fuck with our retirement pensions hey ? As I've said, the west in general and the US in particular...slow burning Romes. There's a whole lot go'n on that just can't continue...to go on.

MrRodgers -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 6:34:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 There are many ways to measure the dollar or any currency. It`s value "going up" because of what it`s measured against a falling currency, tells only a small part of the picture. The article,full of catch phrases and code words like "political correctness" makes me think it`s just one more Euro-bashing POV......like so many of our conservatives,just boiler plate con-rhetoric. Can you honestly say the author cares about the EU? I do,just out of knowing that when they do better,we do too. There are only TWO ways to measure the value of a currency. 1) ...as measured against other currencies, i.e. how many of each of your currency can I get for each one of my currency. Or... 2) the value of improved or enhanced value of labor I feel I will obtain for either a service or product purchased. Say $2 for a shoe shine...not so good. $2 for a hair cut...much better.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 7:05:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic AH the collapse is coming, thank god. Well yes but only as it doesn't fuck with our retirement pensions hey ? As I've said, the west in general and the US in particular...slow burning Romes. There's a whole lot go'n on that just can't continue...to go on. no collapse at all though i suspect all tha conspiracy dudes would love it even if they lost tha proverbial shirt on their back! just a passing knowledge of rome shows it had loadsa peaks & troughs.

MrRodgers -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 7:24:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Nice to see you all jumping aboard the good ship Clueless. Here is a link as to the cause. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16290598 The IMF is also involved in the bailout, Greek Cypriots can either say no to the loan, or accept the terms. Before you, collectively, start carping on about the government grabbing cash, remember they were voted in to fix the crisis. Finally, why should the rest of the EU bail out Russian money launderers and unbridled capitalism. there has been a massive building boom of holiday homes, even holiday villages. The IMF etc are going after the wrong people though, it should be the bond holders and not ordinary savers. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21812853 They have revised their plans but with Putin & Co. you'd think they have assumed the role of Dom of the world mob. We continue to see almost everyday...the sense of entitlement of the rich, even those who, everybody knowing full well...stole it. Here

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 7:33:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 The IMF is also involved in the bailout, Greek Cypriots can either say no to the loan, or accept the terms. Before you, collectively, start carping on about the government grabbing cash, remember they were voted in to fix the crisis. yup also read they were voted in to fix tha crisis but tha voters didnt expect punative actions like that. same wit the politicians according to the media. probably trigger a big recession in cyprus so another bailout needed. [8\|]

MrRodgers -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 7:35:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic AH the collapse is coming, thank god. Well yes but only as it doesn't fuck with our retirement pensions hey ? As I've said, the west in general and the US in particular...slow burning Romes. There's a whole lot go'n on that just can't continue...to go on. no collapse at all though i suspect all tha conspiracy dudes would love it even if they lost tha proverbial shirt on their back! just a passing knowledge of rome shows it had loadsa peaks & troughs. Oh yea. Rome is a bit of a metaphor in that having stretched the empire so far, army becoming ill-equipped to sustain it and the resulting lack of gold...well soon, it was gen. vs gen. There are parallels but we can condense Roman history for a closer look. We can't do that yet. Ours (the west & mostly the US) is a slower moving bent toward financial destruction as the military's world-wise presence will be maintained.

TricklessMagic -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 8:26:53 AM)
I am hoping for a full collapse. A complete slam of the reset button. I've got my gold, lead, beans, and antibiotics. I'd love to watch the bloated welfare fed cities of the U.S. implode from lack of government handouts. I got mine and I can keep going (a southern boy can survive). I realize it's not going to happen unfortunately but man it would have been great.

tazzygirl -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 8:28:43 AM)
lol.. gotta love the patriots who wait for the demise of their country with glee.

JeffBC -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 8:32:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl lol.. gotta love the patriots who wait for the demise of their country with glee. Actually, what I love is the tough guys who think that when it goes all Mad Max they're going to be the hero in the movie. Such people, apparently, haven't given much thought to what the collapse of society actually means. Sure, I agree that a prepper has a better chance than most (obviously since they prepped). But that's a lot like saying "I have a bomb shelter in my backyard so I'm prepared for a nuclear war".

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 8:38:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Well yes but only as it doesn't fuck with our retirement pensions hey ? As I've said, the west in general and the US in particular...slow burning Romes. There's a whole lot go'n on that just can't continue...to go on. no collapse at all though i suspect all tha conspiracy dudes would love it even if they lost tha proverbial shirt on their back! just a passing knowledge of rome shows it had loadsa peaks & troughs. Oh yea. Rome is a bit of a metaphor in that having stretched the empire so far, army becoming ill-equipped to sustain it and the resulting lack of gold...well soon, it was gen. vs gen. There are parallels but we can condense Roman history for a closer look. hmm tha army cant be ill equipped & the territory ain't expanding. tha gold is pretty low but been there before & sorted it. quote: We can't do that yet. Ours (the west & mostly the US) is a slower moving bent toward financial destruction as the military's world-wise presence will be maintained. dont see how this is inevitable. reckon things aint great but the west picked itself up & dusted itself off many times before.

TricklessMagic -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 9:11:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl lol.. gotta love the patriots who wait for the demise of their country with glee. Actually, what I love is the tough guys who think that when it goes all Mad Max they're going to be the hero in the movie. Such people, apparently, haven't given much thought to what the collapse of society actually means. Sure, I agree that a prepper has a better chance than most (obviously since they prepped). But that's a lot like saying "I have a bomb shelter in my backyard so I'm prepared for a nuclear war". Me a hero? Fuck no. I'm not the hero type. I'm the me and mine type. In reality a collapse would mean about eight to ten years of hell on earth I would say. A great die off followed by a restructuring. The knowledge of technology and infrastructure wouldn't disappear completely. Cities would be decimated population wise and some would probably burn up for the most part (oh well and good riddance to Chicago, D.C., NYC, Los Angeles, New Orleans [Lafayette is better anyways], Orlando, Miami, Kansas City etc. etc. etc.). What it would do is separate the wheat from the chaff. Get folks refocused on the priorities of life such as cooperation, infrastructure, tradeable goods and solid currency, food supply, and so on. The corporate stranglehold would falter if not downright collapse. Hard workers, artisans, craftsman, doctors, and farmers would move to the top of the food chain ahead of politicians and corporate types. It'd be bloody and horrible but not Mad Max unless you are talking about the first movie where it was fairly sane but for a few miscreants who needed killing that nobody seemed to have the balls to kill till Max got his kill on. And folks would learn to appreciate that 2nd Amendment especially as cops and members of the armed forces either; were unable to protect them, abandoned their post to protect theirs, or became corrupt and tyrannical. Military bases, NORAD, Oil Fields, Nuclear reactors, farm fields, and other necessities to existence would keep going in a collapse but the rest, the useless rest would have to sort itself out. And more beautiful than that would be the fact that food and resource exports (i.e. coal and metal) would virtually cease cause a ripple effect in the rest of the world. There's already a threat of a world wide food shortage and America exports a lot of food staples so certain nations would suffer immeasurably as well. Probably only China and Russia would stay at the top of the heap as their citizens have a history of being good little slaves to the state and that would give the U.S. a renewed common threat to stand united against. Mexico would fall into chaos and would be ripe to take over once accounts were settled in the U.S.. Millions of hardworking folks wanting jobs who have never become dependent on a welfare safety net would become U.S. citizens with all the protections of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and so on. Laws and regulations regarding banks would be redrafted to keep them from becoming "Too Big To Fail". Corporations would not enjoy the same protections they have now. Wouldn't it be grand.

TricklessMagic -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 9:14:47 AM)
America is like a car engine, sometimes you can't fix it till you take it apart.

vincentML -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 9:34:47 AM)
quote: dont see how this is inevitable. reckon things aint great but the west picked itself up & dusted itself off many times before. Yup! I reckon you're right. I agree. Cyprus? :::YAWN:::

lovmuffin -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 9:38:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic I am hoping for a full collapse. A complete slam of the reset button. I've got my gold, lead, beans, and antibiotics. I'd love to watch the bloated welfare fed cities of the U.S. implode from lack of government handouts. I got mine and I can keep going (a southern boy can survive). I realize it's not going to happen unfortunately but man it would have been great. I'm not hoping or looking forward to a collapse but ultimately its going to happen if we keep spending into oblivion. Whether its military spending, welfare or funding studies on sex habits of Chinese fighting fish, it doesn't matter. It's going to bite us in the ass. I'm prepared as well though I'm hoping I can help my neighbors out.

lovmuffin -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 9:44:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic I'd love to watch the bloated welfare fed cities of the U.S. implode from lack of government handouts. The sad part of that is, these city dwellers will blame it all on the republicans. [8D]

YN -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 10:01:17 AM)
While it is certain there will be widespread, violent, and significant disruptions if the contradictions of the social and economic orders in the affected nations adjust themselves by revolution or anarchy, no thinking person should welcome or been gleeful about this possibly in either their region; or anywhere else. In the first case, as others have noted, there is likely no preparation that will ensure the safety and well being of one's family and neighbors. In the second case, recall what went on in Europe and elsewhere during the 1930's and what arose to restore the social economic orders. This time, if it degenerates to that point, many of the players are heavily armed with weapons of mass destruction several orders greater than any available in 1940, and the potential bloodbath would be a world-class event. Be careful what you pray for, you may get what you ask for granted.

Yachtie -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 10:08:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic In reality a collapse would mean about eight to ten years of hell on earth I would say. The corporate stranglehold would falter if not downright collapse. Hard workers, artisans, craftsman, doctors, and farmers would move to the top of the food chain ahead of politicians and corporate types. It'd be bloody and horrible but not Mad Max unless you are talking about the first movie where it was fairly sane but for a few miscreants who needed killing that nobody seemed to have the balls to kill till Max got his kill on. I've heard it termed a hard reboot. It's what may be inevitable. Many believe all the social infrastructure will be able to be maintained. It won't. It's also possible that the US won't survive in its current form, breaking up into areas of political divergence.

TricklessMagic -> RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. (3/18/2013 10:24:04 AM)
My family, at least the ones that are of value to me, will get through. I have my kin that live little better than the late eighteen hundreds and I know how to live like that as well as those "neighbors" who I give a shit about. Sorry but most everyone else is expendable except for doctors, artisans, hard workers, craftsman and farmers. I can farm, have worked on farms, have made tools from bits of metal, and repaired more things than I can count. In a nation of 300 million I would expect at least a 100 million to perish. In your world that's unacceptable, to me its nature. If i die so be it. The machine is damaged and like any machine it is slowly getting worse. I can't save it or stop it so I might as well see to me and mine and those whom I think will be of value to me and mine. It'd be a time of tough and horrible decisions, and probably cannibalism (eh throw them there liberal on pit and make sure to get plenty of salt on 'em lol). Yes I accept that nationalist and soviet like powers would emerge in Europe, oh well, we'd then have ourselves another cold war. The Jews have their own homeland and more live in the U.S. now than ever, and it'd be fun to laugh at all those socialists who often considered themselves superior intellectuals to where no horrors could ever occur again, being proven wrong as they hung in city squares. You assume a thinking person believes what currently stands is what best. I see this country as a cancer patient in a losing battle refusing chemo, with chemo being their sole chance of survival and recovery. The chemo is a collapse, the cancer sells and some healthy cells would die off but ultimately a healthy thriving person would be left. Only certain people could be saved, some would be unable to be saved, others would have to be left to their own fate, and others would have to be preyed upon. Civilization is a form of bribery, that by playing nice and abiding by the law, on a risk-reward paradigm, that an individual will ultimately prosper. I sacrifice for myself and mine, I owe no one and nothing, long as I get what I want I play by the rules. Maybe I have some occassional compassion and charity along the way, but I can't save you and I don't owe you. In a post-collapse scenario: If you can benefit me, if I can use you, to make my situation better than I might help you. But if you risk being a mill stone around my neck, your on your own, if you come after mine only one of us would live as I would not stop till that's how it worked out, if I have to enslave you to survive I'll enslave you, if I have to rob you I will rob you, if I have to eliminate you I'll eliminate you, that's why in a post-collapse scenario I would get the hell away from as many people as possible. There are over seven billion people on this planet, we only need thirty thousand or so to survive to continue the human race. Death is inevitable, greatness is struggle, life is short.

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