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RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 10:26:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Cyprus. It's beginning.

Serious question Yachtie. I haven't responded to this thread mostly because I don't really understand the claim.

Can you help the more stupid among us (me in this case) to understand what has happened and why it's a bad thing?

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
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(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 10:58:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Cyprus. It's beginning.

Serious question Yachtie. I haven't responded to this thread mostly because I don't really understand the claim.

Can you help the more stupid among us (me in this case) to understand what has happened and why it's a bad thing?

What has been irrevocably changed is trust in the government and banking institutions. Your bank account is not safe. Not that it ever really has been, but this is a watershed event simply because it's on the table. Whether it eventually passes or fails is irrelevant, the Rubicon of public perception of account safety has been crossed.

It's also quite evident they want the money too.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/18/2013 11:01:13 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 11:02:18 AM

YN

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As long as you understand that it will be as the 1700's with all armed with 20th century weaponry, and a surplus first and second world population very ill-equipped socially, occupationally, and politically and to otherwise live in a 1700's environment.

Certainly they will be individually and collectively grasp at any straws rather then suffer and die, and perhaps you and your family will be one of these minor straws, in spite of your best efforts.

I have land, cattle and a self sufficient agricultural base, and live thousands of kilometers away from the epicenter of these places, and still do not have the confidence that it could or will be a positive experience when it occurs.

(in reply to TricklessMagic)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 11:59:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
What has been irrevocably changed is trust in the government and banking institutions.

Well, that would explain why I didn't really get it. I'd say the government and banking institutions have already shown themselves to be corrupt to the core. They are a bunch of liars and cheaters who have rigged the system to suck as much wealth out of the world as they can. This ought to be obvious to anyone.

So whatever is going on in Cyprus really could not have damaged my faith in either institution anymore than it already is.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 12:01:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YN
I have land, cattle and a self sufficient agricultural base, and live thousands of kilometers away from the epicenter of these places, and still do not have the confidence that it could or will be a positive experience when it occurs.

*nods* That mirrors my thinking. I think your own life position insulates you to some degree. But lets be clear, when my children are starving your cattle are going to start looking mighty yummy.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to YN)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 12:49:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'd say the government and banking institutions have already shown themselves to be corrupt to the core.

Quite so. Cyprus just takes it to the next full level. It's one thing to levy taxes in support of the Banksters. It's wholly a different animal to openly declare war on depositors.

It looks like it may fail - from the site that shall not be named -
Moments ago the state-run CYBC media reported perhaps the most material news ahead of tomorrow's Cyprus parliamentary vote, which at this point will likely be rescheduled once more, for the simple reason that yet another key Cypriot party, DIKO, has come out and decided to vote against the depositor-loss law on the Parliament's docket tomorrow.

But the Cat of Desire is out of the bag.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/18/2013 12:54:27 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 1:08:01 PM

YN

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There was a reason after the world depression of the last century, people worldwide did not trust banks and hoarded their money.

At least your matress will not seize 10 percent of the monies you hid inside of it.

Qualitative easing was bad enough as a tax, but now even that does not suffice.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 1:20:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

There was a reason after the world depression of the last century, people worldwide did not trust banks and hoarded their money.

At least your matress will not seize 10 percent of the monies you hid inside of it.

Qualitative easing was bad enough as a tax, but now even that does not suffice.

People worldwide had money?

Your mattress took much more if you were a citizen of the Weimar Republic with/without a wheel barrow circa 1921.

QE was a sop to the banks and mortgage lenders but at least it was opposite the Fed Res strategy of 1937. We shall see what Father History says.

Imo, this whole flap about the 'cyprus crisis' is just an excuse for gloating by the 'survivalists' who were disappointed by the impotency of the Mayan Calendar 'crisis' on 21 Dec last. . . . . lol!

< Message edited by vincentML -- 3/18/2013 1:21:20 PM >

(in reply to YN)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 1:25:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic

In reality a collapse would mean about eight to ten years of hell on earth I would say.
The corporate stranglehold would falter if not downright collapse. Hard workers, artisans, craftsman, doctors, and farmers would move to the top of the food chain ahead of politicians and corporate types.

It'd be bloody and horrible but not Mad Max unless you are talking about the first movie where it was fairly sane but for a few miscreants who needed killing that nobody seemed to have the balls to kill till Max got his kill on.

I've heard it termed a hard reboot. It's what may be inevitable. Many believe all the social infrastructure will be able to be maintained. It won't. It's also possible that the US won't survive in its current form, breaking up into areas of political divergence.

I think it could happen in any number of ways, but I agree it won't be like Mad Max or anything dreamed up by the film industry. (If anything, it would probably be more like The Running Man, although that's just a wild guess on my part.)

In the event of economic collapse in other countries - and the likely totalitarianism that would result, it could plunge certain countries and regions of the world into war. I'm not sure if that will divide the U.S. or if geopolitical upheaval could unite the country similar to World War II. It could go either way, I suppose. (I remember those from that era who said that we kids had it too easy and were too soft compared to what they had to go through.)

I don't know if it will mean total collapse or that the U.S. would break apart. I suppose it's possible, but I would imagine that the circumstances would have to be pretty severe. It looks kind of grim, though.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 1:32:55 PM

YN

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Yes, that historic choice between massive inflation eating the working class wages, pensions, and savings, and those savings being outright raided or seized, both of which happened during the last world depression.

But ask yourself how capitalism functions without liquid wealth to use as capital? And picture how the resulting barter economy would function.

Naturally your ruling classes will feel none of this pain.

Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 1:34:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YN
Naturally your ruling classes will feel none of this pain.

Well, that's not really true. Sometimes the sheeple get really angry and then the ruling class gets dead. I mean seriously, as people get more and more hungry they are eventually going to start wondering about those yachts and the folks on them.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to YN)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 1:46:49 PM

YN

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN
Naturally your ruling classes will feel none of this pain.

Well, that's not really true. Sometimes the sheeple get really angry and then the ruling class gets dead. I mean seriously, as people get more and more hungry they are eventually going to start wondering about those yachts and the folks on them.

If you think that type of violent lawlessness will be a good thing you need to rethink the matter through. That sort of mob rule will only justify the use of the overwhelming force the ruling classes have available upon the people as a whole, if unsuccessful; and if not will lead to a bloodbath of even greater magnitude as those mobs fight over how to deal with the resulting power vacuum and anarchy as well as the severe social, health, and economic crisis they will be left with in their rudderless nations.

Only a structured revolutionary movement, willing and able to use arms could have a hope of securing an orderly transition, and no ruling class worth it's name will allow one to form unmolested.

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 1:58:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

Only a structured revolutionary movement, willing and able to use arms could have a hope of securing an orderly transition, and no ruling class worth it's name will allow one to form unmolested.

Quite. It's not going to be pretty, but that does not mean it has to be down right ugly. People will shed the ruling class in favor of the new matrix. Unfortunately, no one knows what that shall look like. It could be as easy as peoples peacefully separating and going their own ways or to the Terror that was France. But it's becoming quite obvious people are becoming tired of being robbed FBO the ruling oligarchies.

edit: Rumor is now that depositors <100K no confiscation. Over 100K is at 15%.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/18/2013 2:05:02 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to YN)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 2:08:15 PM

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Oh, I sure don't think it's a good thing. I think it's an awful thing. I was simply pointing out that sometimes the ruling class does end up feeling the pain.

But lets be clear. The current situation in the US is that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. The differentials are already extreme by any measure. The pace of change is accelerating. Neither the Republicans or Democrats are showing any interest in modifying that pattern.

So how do you think that story ends? Already people are dying in droves because of this (life expectancies tell the tale). Don't you think they are going to get fed up eventually?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to YN)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 2:13:49 PM

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Jim Sinclair has something to say.

The government leaders in Cyprus are trying to back-pedal right now in order to save their lives. Let me say it again, they are trying to save their own lives. Remember, ‘revenge is best served cold.’ This means the revenge never comes at the moment of the miscreant act. But it will come in time.

To take money from the leading economic entities in Russia, is to take money from the former KGB officers, and taking money from them is extremely dangerous. I think the reality has quickly set in for the leaders of Cyprus that they have aided in the confiscation of the most serious and dangerous money you could possibly touch. It has these leaders more afraid for their lives than their bank accounts.

I would also add that this was the biggest mistake made by the IMF and the ECB in their history. Every time you do business with a Russian company, you do business with a bank in Cyprus. Money goes in, it goes out, but it all funnels through Cyprus.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 4:14:15 PM

YN

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

Only a structured revolutionary movement, willing and able to use arms could have a hope of securing an orderly transition, and no ruling class worth it's name will allow one to form unmolested.

Quite. It's not going to be pretty, but that does not mean it has to be down right ugly. People will shed the ruling class in favor of the new matrix. Unfortunately, no one knows what that shall look like. It could be as easy as peoples peacefully separating and going their own ways or to the Terror that was France. But it's becoming quite obvious people are becoming tired of being robbed FBO the ruling oligarchies.

edit: Rumor is now that depositors <100K no confiscation. Over 100K is at 15%.

In our case we are veterans of such things, and the Roman Catholic Church, for its many faults, can and has helped contain the excesses often in Latin America, bloody as some were, the priests managed to appeal to the better natures of those involved in such things, and certain revolts could have been far bloodier then they were.

And we still have communist cadres, they also have served to direct and control such events. Respected patrones can impose "strong man" rule in smaller areas and keep some semblance of order.

As for Cyprus, no matter who they seize the bank funds of; bad consequences will follow, be it grandmothers meager life savings, the working class family, the business account, the Russian gangsters, or the local upper class, none will be happy with any of it, for none know what else the government may grab next to satisfy the Europeans.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 5:39:07 PM

WantsOfTheFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Jim Sinclair has something to say.

The government leaders in Cyprus are trying to back-pedal right now in order to save their lives. Let me say it again, they are trying to save their own lives. Remember, ‘revenge is best served cold.’ This means the revenge never comes at the moment of the miscreant act. But it will come in time.

To take money from the leading economic entities in Russia, is to take money from the former KGB officers, and taking money from them is extremely dangerous. I think the reality has quickly set in for the leaders of Cyprus that they have aided in the confiscation of the most serious and dangerous money you could possibly touch. It has these leaders more afraid for their lives than their bank accounts.

ah its only 19 billion, loose change found in tha back of putins couch in the kremlin but might be interesting if putin starts gettin' friendly with turkey coz of a perceived slap from tha imf & Ewww.

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RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 5:53:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

In short, given that the threat has been made and it appears nothing is sacred in EU banking

You think there is anything sacred in US banking after the 2008 collapse ?

All the major banks have used shady tricks over the past decade or two. None get a free pass.

Still, theres no need to worry about silly shit, like regulation eh ?

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 5:56:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

yup also read they were voted in to fix tha crisis but tha voters didnt expect punative actions like that. same wit the politicians according to the media. probably trigger a big recession in cyprus so another bailout needed.

Do you figure bankruptcy wont trigger a bailout then ?

All I see from many on here is criticism with no viable answers.

(in reply to WantsOfTheFlesh)

RE: In the beginning there was Cyprus. - 3/18/2013 5:57:59 PM

WantsOfTheFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
yup also read they were voted in to fix tha crisis but tha voters didnt expect punative actions like that. same wit the politicians according to the media. probably trigger a big recession in cyprus so another bailout needed.

Do you figure bankruptcy wont trigger a bailout then ?

All I see from many on here is criticism with no viable answers.

there should be easier terms over a longer period. tha germans should be more generous coz a weak cyprus damages tha eu.

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