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New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:10:39 AM

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Smoking lamp is lit... a/k/a, the light is green

The National Government are pushing a Cyprus-style solution to bank failure in New Zealand which will see small depositors lose some of their savings to fund big bank bailouts, the Green Party said today.

Open Bank Resolution (OBR) is Finance Minister Bill English’s favoured option dealing with a major bank failure. If a bank fails under OBR, all depositors will have their savings reduced overnight to fund the bank’s bail out.

“Bill English is proposing a Cyprus-style solution for managing bank failure here in New Zealand – a solution that will see small depositors lose some of their savings to fund big bank bailouts,” said Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman.

“The Reserve Bank is in the final stages of implementing a system of managing bank failure called Open Bank Resolution. The scheme will put all bank depositors on the hook for bailing out their bank.

“Depositors will overnight have their savings shaved by the amount needed to keep the bank afloat.

Like was said in another thread... ~"It'll blow over".

But of course, if they want a bail out...

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/19/2013 11:12:53 AM >

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RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:24:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
“Depositors will overnight have their savings shaved by the amount needed to keep the bank afloat.

What I don't fully understand is this focus on keeping the bank afloat. So what? You have a bunch of idiots who shouldn't be trusted with managing money... self-evidently since their bank is going under. Why not simply let it go under and figure out how and in which order to help the depositors?

I don't understand how anyone fell for this shit in the US and I don't really understand how anyone else falls for it either. Why isn't "too big to fail" synonymous with "too fucked up to allow to continue"?

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RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:24:37 AM

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From the site that shall not be named -

There are no good outcomes for a country as indebted as Cyprus is, "but if I were a Cypriot member of Parliament, I would vote now to go back to an independent currency as the least painful of the various difficult options." Hannan then makes a fantastic point, "in the rest of Europe, we have measured the cost of monetary union in unemployment, deflation, poverty, and emigration; in Cyprus that wasn't enough, they have had to gouge the savers directly," and so the Cypriots who claim to want to stay in the Euro can now quantify the cost of that shackle, as he reminds us that , "you don't have to be a Russian oligarch to have EUR 100,000 in the bank," as he concludes, "the really interesting question is - who's next?" (emphasis added)

Ummm, "What is New Zealand?"

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/19/2013 11:27:33 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:26:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
“Depositors will overnight have their savings shaved by the amount needed to keep the bank afloat.

What I don't fully understand is this focus on keeping the bank afloat. So what? You have a bunch of idiots who shouldn't be trusted with managing money... self-evidently since their bank is going under. Why not simply let it go under and figure out how and in which order to help the depositors?

I don't understand how anyone fell for this shit in the US and I don't really understand how anyone else falls for it either. Why isn't "too big to fail" synonymous with "too fucked up to allow to continue"?

Question - Who benefits?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:28:32 AM

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You omitted the alternative:

“OBR is not in line with Australia, which protects bank deposits up to $250,000.

“A deposit insurance scheme is a much simpler, well-tested alternative to Open Bank Resolution. It rewards safe banks with lower premiums and limits the cost to taxpayers of a bank failure.

“Deposit insurance will, however, require the Reserve Bank to oversee and regulate our banks more closely – a measure which is ultimately the best protection against bank failure.”

Is that because the alternative, which we have in the States, is not scarey enough to rile the bile of folks on this board?

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:29:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Question - Who benefits?

Well yah of course. It's not like it's hard to "follow the money" in this case. It's a direct and open transaction. But what I can't figure out is why any non-wealthy type would be in favor.

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RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:31:27 AM

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Not NZ!?! :(
Don't let it happen, Kiwis!! Pure theft, pure and simple! STAND UP!

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RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:36:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Question - Who benefits?

Well yah of course. It's not like it's hard to "follow the money" in this case. It's a direct and open transaction. But what I can't figure out is why any non-wealthy type would be in favor.

The average Cypriot isn't. I sincerely doubt the average New Zealander is.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:38:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

You omitted the alternative:

“OBR is not in line with Australia, which protects bank deposits up to $250,000.

“A deposit insurance scheme is a much simpler, well-tested alternative to Open Bank Resolution. It rewards safe banks with lower premiums and limits the cost to taxpayers of a bank failure.

“Deposit insurance will, however, require the Reserve Bank to oversee and regulate our banks more closely – a measure which is ultimately the best protection against bank failure.”

Is that because the alternative, which we have in the States, is not scarey enough to rile the bile of folks on this board?

Here in the states we just bail them out with taxpayer money. But, they (TPTB) may get to us depositors eventually. "All your bank accounts belong to us!"

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/19/2013 11:40:02 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:46:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Here in the states we just bail them out with taxpayer money. But, they (TPTB) may get to us depositors eventually. "All your bank accounts belong to us!"

*chuckles* Yeah... think on it... an entirely new way to steal money from us! So let's see, we have direct bailouts. We have quantitative easing." I think adding in "just go steal it right out of my bank account" would round out that list nicely. I have to admit, it does seem like a highly efficient and low-cost way to steal my money. I should probably be in favor.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
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(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:53:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

You omitted the alternative:

“OBR is not in line with Australia, which protects bank deposits up to $250,000.

“A deposit insurance scheme is a much simpler, well-tested alternative to Open Bank Resolution. It rewards safe banks with lower premiums and limits the cost to taxpayers of a bank failure.

“Deposit insurance will, however, require the Reserve Bank to oversee and regulate our banks more closely – a measure which is ultimately the best protection against bank failure.”

Is that because the alternative, which we have in the States, is not scarey enough to rile the bile of folks on this board?

Here in the states we just bail them out with taxpayer money. But, they (TPTB) may get to us depositors eventually. "All your bank accounts belong to us!"

Are you sure of that or are you locked in to the major event that involved toxic assets in 2008? Otherwise, here in the States when a bank goes under the FDIC steps in and holds safe the deposits, transferring them to other banks. In fact they do it during the night and are ready for business as usual the next day.

BTW, the Cypriot Parliament just voted against the "shaving" of deposits.

I repeat my assertion from the previous thread . . . . the Cyprus 'crisis' will blow over and have no effect on us.

Will disappoint a lot of the dooms day survivalists.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 3/19/2013 11:56:57 AM >

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 11:59:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

You omitted the alternative:

“OBR is not in line with Australia, which protects bank deposits up to $250,000.

“A deposit insurance scheme is a much simpler, well-tested alternative to Open Bank Resolution. It rewards safe banks with lower premiums and limits the cost to taxpayers of a bank failure.

“Deposit insurance will, however, require the Reserve Bank to oversee and regulate our banks more closely – a measure which is ultimately the best protection against bank failure.”

Is that because the alternative, which we have in the States, is not scarey enough to rile the bile of folks on this board?

Here in the states we just bail them out with taxpayer money. But, they (TPTB) may get to us depositors eventually. "All your bank accounts belong to us!"

Are you sure of that or are you locked in to the major event that involved toxic assets in 2008? Otherwise, here in the States when a bank goes under the FDIC steps in and holds safe the deposits, transferring them to other banks. In fact they do it during the night and are ready for business as usual the next day.

BTW, the Cypriot Parliament just voted against the "shaving" of deposits.

That is currently the role FDIC plays. All it would take might be a banking holiday and executive order, or quick Act of Congress, whereby FDIC is bypassed in favor of Lawful Seizure. It could be done.

Yeah, Cyprus is a mess. The Parliament there is beginning to show a few stones. We shall see. Cyprus is a test case at any rate. But it shows just how far TPTB are willing to go to get the money. It's also in the realm of possibility Cyprus just exits the EU, takes their lumps and begins to heal.

It's not that Cyprus will effect the US directly (no matter the fox is in the hen house). But it is having an effect within the EU. Tangentially, that could effect us.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/19/2013 12:03:12 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 12:14:36 PM

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quote:

That is currently the role FDIC plays. All it would take might be a banking holiday and executive order, or quick Act of Congress, whereby FDIC is bypassed in favor of Lawful Seizure. It could be done.

I can't help think you are really stretching here Yachtie considering that the FDIC is a an independent agency and

"Insured institutions are required to place signs at their place of business stating that "deposits are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States Government."[3] Since the start of FDIC insurance on January 1, 1934, no depositor has lost any insured funds as a result of a failure.[4]"

quote:

It's not that Cyprus will effect the US directly (no matter the fox is in the hen house). But it is having an effect within the EU. Tangentially, that could effect us.

The ECB has just announced they will provide liquidity to Cyprus.

Much ado about very little imo.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 3/19/2013 12:17:36 PM >

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 12:34:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The ECB has just announced they will provide liquidity to Cyprus.

Much ado about very little imo.

Just saw that. The ECB blinked. So Cyprus gets the same treatment as previously to others. I'm sure the Germans are happy about that

Much ado about very little? Perhaps. We'll see, as events unfold in the EU and more bailouts keep coming. There's still Italy, Spain, Portugal... we're not done yet.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 12:36:03 PM

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Must be a sloooow newsmonth....

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RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 12:46:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
That is currently the role FDIC plays. All it would take might be a banking holiday and executive order, or quick Act of Congress, whereby FDIC is bypassed in favor of Lawful Seizure. It could be done.

Bigger question would be whether savings or other monetary accounts (401k's, IRA's, investment portfolio's, etc.) can be defined as "property" for the purpose of takings law, aka Eminent Domain. If bailing out a bank is accepted as a public benefit, then couldn't taking private property ($$) for that public benefit fall under the purview of eminent domain?

Wouldn't that be one helluva Government fuckjob!

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RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 1:39:55 PM

WantsOfTheFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
I don't understand how anyone fell for this shit in the US and I don't really understand how anyone else falls for it either. Why isn't "too big to fail" synonymous with "too fucked up to allow to continue"?

thing is tha banks will cause damage no matter if the state props 'em up or they fail. its about picking the lesser of 2 evils. "too big to fail" could be an excuse but maybe sometimes it really would drag economies down or even destroy 'em.

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RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 1:48:13 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
That is currently the role FDIC plays. All it would take might be a banking holiday and executive order, or quick Act of Congress, whereby FDIC is bypassed in favor of Lawful Seizure. It could be done.

Bigger question would be whether savings or other monetary accounts (401k's, IRA's, investment portfolio's, etc.) can be defined as "property" for the purpose of takings law, aka Eminent Domain. If bailing out a bank is accepted as a public benefit, then couldn't taking private property ($$) for that public benefit fall under the purview of eminent domain?

Wouldn't that be one helluva Government fuckjob!

I think they do that now.. but its just called a good old fashioned "tax increase" or a "tax on the rich" (example is the 3.8% obamacare tax) or they change the rules on when you can/have to take the money out, etc.. or just plain old inflation (which is a form of theft too)..

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RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 1:52:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Bigger question would be whether savings or other monetary accounts (401k's, IRA's, investment portfolio's, etc.) can be defined as "property" for the purpose of takings law

Wouldn't that be one helluva Government fuckjob!

Yes, and as such has already been discussed in various circles. 401-Ks seized and placed into new and improved government personal savings plans. Of course what will be in them will be IOUs. That concept is not new. They've been taking money from SS for many many years. Now they are looking for more.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/19/2013 1:53:57 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: New Zealand is thinking of going all Cyprus - 3/19/2013 1:56:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
thing is tha banks will cause damage no matter if the state props 'em up or they fail. its about picking the lesser of 2 evils. "too big to fail" could be an excuse but maybe sometimes it really would drag economies down or even destroy 'em.

Yeah... which would be neat all except for the fact that it's the banks which are destroying the economies. So I fail to see how helping them helps the economy. In other words, if I have two different ways to "destroy an economy" and one of them at least attempts to help the victims and doesn't reward the perpetrators I'll go with that one.

As someone else so succinctly put it, the name of the game is privatizing gains and socializing losses.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to WantsOfTheFlesh)

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