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Permission to join??? - 6/22/2006 10:05:25 PM

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
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OK, so here's the deal. I recently joined a Dominants' group. In the application process, they send you a questionnaire which asks a lot of personal questions, the answers to some of which I said were, basically, none of their business, but I did let them know I was a switch. They approved my membership. Maybe I should note here that at the time I joined a month ago, the group was about a week old. Now, this is supposedly a real time group, with meetings and such, but no meetings have ever been held yet. None that have been announced to the membership, that is.

Today, the group "leader" puts a post out to the group. In that post, he says a few things about members voicing concerns about switches, and mentioning a prior "agreement" between the group and switches (this was news to me, because I was never informed of any such "agreement"). He then further informed all switches that if we call someone else "Sir," we need to have said "Sir's" written permission to join the group and, if switches being in the group become an "issue" then they'll be bumped out and sent to the submissives' group.

Am I wrong in thinking this is belittling and dismissive of switches? Because, to me, this screams loud and clear that we will never be considered peers of the "real" dominants, regardless of how we identify ourselves. I basically told the guy to kiss my ass, and that I don't need daddy's signature on a permission slip in order to join discussion groups. We don't play those games. I also gave him the Kaptin's email address and told him to feel free to write Him and whine about my bad behavior. He enjoys getting emails from frustrated dominants who can't make me do what they want me to do.

Is my thinking just skewed wrong? How would you feel on being told you had to have someone else's written permission to join a group?

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 12:23:28 AM

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

Well, here's a surprise. I'd feel pretty much exactly the way you do about it. That said, I'm not surprised. Switches are ever misunderstood by the vast majorities as the confused, uncertain poster children of BDSM. No matter how much you try to 'splain it to folks, they just don't get it. That's ok though.. the people with whom I play on both sides 'do' get it.. and that's good enough for all of us.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 6:13:38 AM

Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline

Wasn't it Groucho Marx who said he wouldn't belong to any club that would have him as a member? It seems to me this group would be a great way to bring lots of drama into your life.

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 6:19:54 AM

Posts: 510
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

Is this battle truly worth your time and energy? I think that if you want to be part of this group enough to put up with it, then you will.. if you dont, you wont. However, there are PLENTY of groups out there that do not have this problem. My other question is, if you identify as a switch, why join a dom only group in the first place. I would think you would realize the problems which would be inherent from the get go. Does this REALLY come as a surprise to you?

_____________________________

This is who I am
And this is all I know.
That I must choose to live for all that I can give
The spark that makes the Power grow
<Immortality by Celine Dion>

(in reply to WyrdRich)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 6:30:19 AM

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

I see this as a perfect way to weed out all the switches. The ones who comply probably should be sent to the submissives group; others will go tell him to go fuck himself and walk out as you did.

However, this leader doesn't sound smart enough to have devised it with that in mind. It sounds to me like he is just some bozo who likes getting people to jump through hoops to be members of his exclusive little club, and he'll set up enough of them that anyone who isn't as goofy as him won't want to belong.

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 6:52:59 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Yes it's ridiculous. I mean you have the whole level of "dominance meaning that what you do in your personal relationships somehow must change how you deal with "us" at large" COMBINED with the level of "switches not being cool enough and really just subs playing make-believe."

Ugh.

I'll get Sensual to post about the Kansas groups there- they have a doms-only and a subs-only group. The subs group banned switches (because they don't get to feel all girly and sissy like if they feel they have "dom cooties" in the room) but the dom group still allows switches (uneasily so).

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 7:14:55 AM

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Is this battle truly worth your time and energy?

No, it's not, and that's why I left. Although, the "leader" emailed me this morning insisting he believes switches should be respected, and that we DO have a place within the community, and we ARE accepted in the group. I told him his public words spoke differently.

quote:

My other question is, if you identify as a switch, why join a dom only group in the first place. I would think you would realize the problems which would be inherent from the get go.

Switch is a label; it's not my identity. I identify as a dominant. If the Kaptin and I were to ever separate, I'd never have another Master in my life, but I'd certainly have a slave or three. As for inherent problems in a dom-only group... it is my utopian belief that there should not be any inherent problems. That, and I think any so-called dominant who has a problem discussing dominance issues with a switch is simply blaming the switch for his own insecurities and shortcomings.

quote:

I'll get Sensual to post about the Kansas groups there- they have a doms-only and a subs-only group. The subs group banned switches (because they don't get to feel all girly and sissy like if they feel they have "dom cooties" in the room) but the dom group still allows switches (uneasily so).

Here in Northern Indiana, it's the exact opposite. Switches are welcomed into the submissives/slaves group, provided that we approach discussions from the slave side. I've never had a problem discussing issues of service with the submissives in my community. It's the male dominants who refuse to accept our dominant sides. Actually, it's more like they refuse to accept the dominance of WOMEN. The women here are all treated dismissively by the male dominants. The male switches are treated like dominants, and male submissives are treated like dirt.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 7:22:50 AM

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

However, this leader doesn't sound smart enough to have devised it with that in mind. It sounds to me like he is just some bozo who likes getting people to jump through hoops to be members of his exclusive little club, and he'll set up enough of them that anyone who isn't as goofy as him won't want to belong.

Nah... he told me this morning it was ONE guy who bullied him into publicly stating what he swears he doesn't really believe. Doesn't say much for his leadership skills, does it? Now... who needs to go over to the submissives' group?

quote:

It seems to me this group would be a great way to bring lots of drama into your life.

Considering the area from which it was spawned, I'd have to agree with you. I keep hoping SOMEONE from over there would get a grip (and a clue). I've joined and left more groups from that one little town than I can remember, and new ones keep popping up. I think this was the last one for me, though.

< Message edited by Evanesce -- 6/23/2006 7:23:53 AM >

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to happypervert)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 7:47:54 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

Nah... he told me this morning it was ONE guy who bullied him into publicly stating what he swears he doesn't really believe. Doesn't say much for his leadership skills, does it? Now... who needs to go over to the submissives' group?

I hope you took the time to point that out to him.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 7:55:21 AM

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

Instead of doing it verbally as they ask, you could come up with a switch-to-dom salute. Extend arm horizontally, cup hand palm up, curl all fingers and the thumb against the palm, slowly extend middle finger.

I'd say that says it all.

Since just about everyone I know who has been in the scene more than a few years has some switch in him or her, I'd say that their approach reeks of being novices and you really won't miss much in not being "allowed" to join their little group.

Consider starting a "open to all" munch. You might discover there are a lot of people who are disaffected by the whimp leader and his loud mouthed sidekick.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 8:02:34 AM

Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

I agree with John.

This is their group, and they have the right to run it as they please, and YOU have the right to vote with your feet :)
Sounds like their is a need for a switches group, or as John suggests, an open to all group. I'll bet that plenty of other members would be willing to vote with their feet too, and the ones that do not? eh, who needs 'em ;)

fergus

(in reply to JohnWarren)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 9:37:49 AM

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

Did they all join hands in a circle and sing "Tick-tock, the game is locked, nobody else can play! Cuz if they do, I'll take my shoe and beat them black and blue! HORRAY!"

If not, I don't think it counts.

TN

(in reply to fergus)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 3:01:05 PM

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

Nah... he told me this morning it was ONE guy who bullied him into publicly stating what he swears he doesn't really believe. Doesn't say much for his leadership skills, does it? Now... who needs to go over to the submissives' group?

I hope you took the time to point that out to him.

Yeah, I did. I said something along the lines of, "You let ONE dominant bully you into doing something you're telling me you don't agree with?"

He admitted that's exactly what he did - and it was a femdom doing the bullying. From what he told me, I know her, too, and I'm not surprised. No biggie. I'm still out of there. A friend's Master thinks I should rejoin, but no freakin' way. I don't need the drama. I've got my own group to get restructured and moving in a productive direction again, after two years of stagnation and lack of attendance, courtesy of ineffective leadership since I quit the Speaker job two years ago.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to stef)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 6:35:50 PM

Posts: 331
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

OK, so here's the deal. I recently joined a Dominants' group. In the application process, they send you a questionnaire which asks a lot of personal questions, the answers to some of which I said were, basically, none of their business, but I did let them know I was a switch. They approved my membership. Maybe I should note here that at the time I joined a month ago, the group was about a week old. Now, this is supposedly a real time group, with meetings and such, but no meetings have ever been held yet. None that have been announced to the membership, that is.

Today, the group "leader" puts a post out to the group. In that post, he says a few things about members voicing concerns about switches, and mentioning a prior "agreement" between the group and switches (this was news to me, because I was never informed of any such "agreement"). He then further informed all switches that if we call someone else "Sir," we need to have said "Sir's" written permission to join the group and, if switches being in the group become an "issue" then they'll be bumped out and sent to the submissives' group.

Am I wrong in thinking this is belittling and dismissive of switches? Because, to me, this screams loud and clear that we will never be considered peers of the "real" dominants, regardless of how we identify ourselves. I basically told the guy to kiss my ass, and that I don't need daddy's signature on a permission slip in order to join discussion groups. We don't play those games. I also gave him the Kaptin's email address and told him to feel free to write Him and whine about my bad behavior. He enjoys getting emails from frustrated dominants who can't make me do what they want me to do.

Is my thinking just skewed wrong? How would you feel on being told you had to have someone else's written permission to join a group?

I wouldn't jump through hoops to be in any group. It amazes me how many BDSM groups that claim to be open to all really aren't.

sub tara

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/23/2006 9:37:52 PM

Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline

I'm a little confused here. A doms only and a subs only group? What's the point?

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/24/2006 4:02:33 PM

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I'm a little confused here. A doms only and a subs only group? What's the point?

Well, that was part of why I wanted to join. I was curious as to what a dominants-only group was going to do differently from any other group. Apparently, nothing.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/24/2006 6:44:15 PM

Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

quote:

I'm a little confused here. A doms only and a subs only group? What's the point?

Well, that was part of why I wanted to join. I was curious as to what a dominants-only group was going to do differently from any other group. Apparently, nothing.

Without any subs, or at least switches, around to do something with, I'd expect nothing.

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/24/2006 7:47:20 PM

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

quote:

I'm a little confused here. A doms only and a subs only group? What's the point?

Well, that was part of why I wanted to join. I was curious as to what a dominants-only group was going to do differently from any other group. Apparently, nothing.

Without any subs, or at least switches, around to do something with, I'd expect nothing.

The Eulenspiegel Society was originally founded as a masochist-only organization

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/24/2006 9:49:22 PM

Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

Am I wrong in thinking this is belittling and dismissive of switches?

Evanesce I personally feel that a switch is very in touch with BDSM. You can see, feel, and work from each end of the dynamic. I have always had a dominant personality and came from some pretty twisted parents who kept me as the work slave until I finally escaped. I rather not get into here but it gave me an appreciation of what sub/slaves go through. I wasn’t a slave by choice but out of self-preservation. That said, I feel that anyone who can identify with both aspects would be far fairer handed when dealing with either.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Permission to join??? - 6/24/2006 10:34:32 PM

BuxomGoddess714

Posts: 91
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: So.California
Status: offline

One of the most rewarding things I do as a true Switch is help bring Doms and subs together, especially in poly situations. I speak both languages. I am the international diplomat. I really can't be supportive of segregating U/us in any way. Maybe that is why Switches don't fit into these seperatists groups. It is inherently against Our nature.

Be blessed,
Goddess

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

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