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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 2:52:35 PM   
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I think some want it presented when they ARE most impressionable...



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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 2:56:37 PM   
FunCouple5280


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Of course, the ages of brainwash.... I am refusing to teach my children anything really deeply religious till they are teens. Then they can learn for themselves. Hopefully, they will learn it is a all hokum.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 3:00:32 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

....Hmmm no....

How about this. Did US behavior make it a target for terrorist attacks? Yes. That is pretty easy to argue for. However, was all of that behavior intentionally negative. Arguably, No.


What would be your arguement in the negative?



quote:

Other than committing suicide or converting to a strict Islamic sect, is there anything you can do to please a terrorist? No.



That was pretty much the same answer the king and parliment came to concerning those that they percieved as "terrorist" in the colonies.


quote:

Finally, despite what the US goverment may have done, is that justifiable for attacks on US civilians and not goverment targets? No.


Has it occured you that it may have been "tit for tat"???has the u.s. made any attacks that affected civilians?

quote:

The issue with all of this is that the school boiled down a complex issue way too far. Then they spun to hard towards their own opinion and ignored the fact that experts disagree tremendously on this all over the political spectrum.


Actually there is not much disagreement that we are in the sand box for the oil. I believe there is a pretty large body of evidence on the net concerning why the "terrorist" did what they did

quote:

Don't forget , 9-11 took place pre-W rampage. While the US has been mucking around in the Mid-East since the Barbary pirates, we weren't half involved as we are now.



Well there the first gulf war, the shah of iran,the iran iraq war just to name a few.

quote:

And as fas as support for Isreal is concerned, well that is a totally different argument with a big set of consequences outside of the rest.


To ignore israel as a salient point in this discussion is hardly reasonable.

quote:



This is beyond what anyone in fifth-grade should be debating.


This would be your unsubstantiated opinion

quote:

The where, when, who, how, and what is all that is important at that age. The why should be left till later in their education when they are less impressionable and more capable of debating the circumstances.

If not now when?

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 3:23:02 PM   
FunCouple5280


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quote:

quote:

Finally, despite what the US goverment may have done, is that justifiable for attacks on US civilians and not goverment targets? No.


Has it occured you that it may have been "tit for tat"???has the u.s. made any attacks that affected civilians?


Does the US government intentionally make major civilian complexes with no military value a target, or are civilian casualties more or less collateral damage? Last I remember we try to avoid mosques, hospitals and office buildings and such. Now I know some islamists love the idea of human shields.

quote:


quote:

The issue with all of this is that the school boiled down a complex issue way too far. Then they spun to hard towards their own opinion and ignored the fact that experts disagree tremendously on this all over the political spectrum.


Actually there is not much disagreement that we are in the sand box for the oil. I believe there is a pretty large body of evidence on the net concerning why the "terrorist" did what they did


Not arguing against the oil angle at all. But considering this brand of terrorism is mostly born of religious zealots, even the presence of McDonalds pisses them off.



quote:


quote:

And as fas as support for Isreal is concerned, well that is a totally different argument with a big set of consequences outside of the rest.


To ignore israel as a salient point in this discussion is hardly reasonable.




I guess I didn't want to write too much. It is complex in the sense that just suddenly giving up on Isreal as it would precipitate the slaughter of the isreali population. So, the issue with Isreal is a can of worms beyond the rest of our mid-east involvement. We could arguably ditch the rest of the area with little human consequence. The most would economic. In brief, that's why I didn't want to go on a tear about it.

quote:


quote:

This is beyond what anyone in fifth-grade should be debating.


This would be your unsubstantiated opinion


Not at all, read next part
quote:


quote:

The where, when, who, how, and what is all that is important at that age. The why should be left till later in their education when they are less impressionable and more capable of debating the circumstances.

If not now when?


Most fifth graders are between the ages of 10-11. Too young to understand complex abstractions. After 11 is when the human mind can really start to grasp abstract thought. So let's say you wait 5 years make sure the slow kids catch up and have some practice with it, then you can start debating such complex ideas.

Read my source with regard to this. You will see it takes till HighSchool before kids really start having that formal operational thought.

Major Stages of Cognitive Development

< Message edited by FunCouple5280 -- 3/29/2013 3:24:24 PM >

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 4:23:08 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub
I gotta say....I have trouble with teaching my kids that the thousands of people who died on that day deserved it. Just sayin'. I wonder if people actually believe that or if it is just the fun of being shocking and contrary.


I didn't see that being taught anywhere in the article. I did notice a position that may have been referring to how the US supporting dictators in the region may have pissed some people off.

quote:


The third question on the controversial quiz was: “Why might the United States be a target for terrorism?” according to CBS Houston. The credited answer — which Sands’s son did, in fact, select — was (B.) “Decisions we made in the United States have had negative effects on people elsewhere.”

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 4:41:03 PM   
thompsonx


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From your link

It is important to note (1) that Table 4.2 is an oversimplification of human cognitive development and (2) that the ages listed in the table are merely approximations. Development is a gradual process; children do not suddenly "graduate" to a new stage at any specific time.

Asking a ten year old an "if then" question is hardly differential calculus.
"If you do not do your chores you will not get ...xyz

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 5:14:12 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

There have been a few post concerning what schools teach, here is one that really gets me and it is in Texas? I wonder if any othe school board is a member of the Westboro Church?

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-school-backs-off-teaching-9-11-america-093412697.html


Hmmmm?

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 7:54:25 PM   
TricklessMagic


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Eh when it comes to Islam and terrorism I'll give my kids the reality of it all and let them decide. The Crusades were arguably a defensive campaign that turned into a fight over originally held Byzantine Empire territory. The CIA did shady things in Iran to prop up the Shah and the Revolutionary Guard engaged in wholesale murder and subjugation of women. America did shady things during the Iran Iraq war. America kept the Iraqis from terrorizing their neighbor in the first war. The second war was a waste of time and taught us not to put boots on ground at all costs but to feel free to blow shit up from afar. America helped the Afghanis kick out the Soviets who were murdering bastards that intentionally killed innocent women and children, and then Osama Bin Laden got pissy and decided to attack us while Clinton was too much of pussy to give the kill order when he had multiple chances. All Osama Bin Laden accomplished was getting far more Muslims killed then the 4,000 or so that died in the towers. We will have accomplished nothing in the Middle East when it is all said and done. The Islamic culture in its forms throughout much of the middle east with some exceptions (Qatar, Jordan, Arab Emirates, and some others I can't remember) is oppressive to anyone who isn't a muslim or is a woman. While Iran may have gotten looser on its laws, it can still murder people for practicing a religion other than Islam by its laws, and it still allows child rape and molestation in varying forms. Are there good peaceful Muslims, sure there are. Are 90% of Muslims likely just good people, yeah I can jive with that. But I'm not an apologist for America or interested in anything Islam.

If the possible answers were ones that could have been given via essay and required explanation and a demonstration of logic, it wouldn't have been that big a deal as the teacher would have been grading based on the content of the essay, not the answer itself. Instead they just ignored the evil intent and nature of those terrorists and went right to putting all the blame on the shoulders of past generations. At the end of the day we all can't live in peace and we just need to accept that and either leave it be or duke it out.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/30/2013 6:51:49 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

If you Rightie foamers can't accept the facts, it doesn't alter reality.


A mere detail like reality has never troubled the Rightie foamers in the past, has it?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/30/2013 6:52:35 AM >


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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/30/2013 7:16:39 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
A mere detail like reality has never troubled the Rightie foamers in the past, has it?

I think that's how you tell that somebody's a true Republican, not a paleocon, RINO or some other flavour of sane and viable conservatism.


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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/30/2013 7:20:03 AM   
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Foam knows no ideological boundaries...

Eta: not directed at Moonie

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RE: What are they teaching? - 4/3/2013 11:25:00 PM   
Esinn


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I gotta say there should be no pitty or respect for any obtuse idiot who does not think foreign policy was directly responsible for 9/11.

OBL wrote "A Letter To America". Only to a truther might it not be as important, still it is very relevant. This letter was authenticated by every IC on the planet USA & abroad. His letter was published in full in multiple US papers - then forgotten about (oddly).

He explains why, in detail - articulately too... Why the USG was attacked. People die in war. Their is friction, backfire & blowback in war. CIVCAS & collateral damage is a common thing.

I can not support an attack on the USA. I was in Phila, not too far at the time. I could have died if I hopped a train. But this shit gets old. The ME is not our AOR. If you want to kill arabs, persians or Jews. Pick a side - have at it. Have fun doing it too. But, keep it to yourself. Fund it yourself too - it is not this nations problem. If you really want to... PM me I might help fund your ticket there.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 4/4/2013 6:30:23 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic

Eh when it comes to Islam and terrorism I'll give my kids the reality of it all and let them decide. The Crusades were arguably a defensive campaign that turned into a fight over originally held Byzantine Empire territory.


Defensive ...roflmao....all wars are fought so we can fuck their women and steal their dope.



quote:

The CIA did shady things in Iran to prop up the Shah



Are we to presume that the cia acted unilaterally or were they doing what a succession of u.s. presidents ordered them to do?

quote:

and the Revolutionary Guard engaged in wholesale murder and subjugation of women.


Wholesale not retail? Where is your validation for this rhetorical horseshit?

quote:

America did shady things during the Iran Iraq war. America kept the Iraqis from terrorizing their neighbor in the first war.


Was that when we sold them the poison gas?


quote:

The second war was a waste of time and taught us not to put boots on ground at all costs but to feel free to blow shit up from afar. America helped the Afghanis kick out the Soviets who were murdering bastards that intentionally killed innocent women and children,


This seems to be your fall back position...all of your enemies are murdering dogs who murder women and children at the wholsale level.....Are you not aware of the carnage at the retail level visited by the u.s. govt on native americans?

quote:

and then Osama Bin Laden got pissy and decided to attack us while Clinton was too much of pussy to give the kill order when he had multiple chances.


You know this because rush told you or you have some inside dope?

quote:

All Osama Bin Laden accomplished was getting far more Muslims killed then the 4,000 or so that died in the towers.


I thought it was the u.s. who accomplished the body bag filling.

quote:

We will have accomplished nothing in the Middle East when it is all said and done. The Islamic culture in its forms throughout much of the middle east with some exceptions (Qatar, Jordan, Arab Emirates, and some others I can't remember)


It would apear that you never knew in the first place.


quote:

is oppressive to anyone who isn't a muslim or is a woman.


Kind like christians

quote:

While Iran may have gotten looser on its laws, it can still murder people for practicing a religion other than Islam by its laws, and it still allows child rape and molestation in varying forms.


Would you care to validate this moronic horshit


quote:

Are there good peaceful Muslims, sure there are. Are 90% of Muslims likely just good people, yeah I can jive with that.


I think this qualifies as self conradictory to the rest of your post.

quote:

But I'm not an apologist for America or interested in anything Islam.


Then why are you posting?

quote:

If the possible answers were ones that could have been given via essay and required explanation and a demonstration of logic, it wouldn't have been that big a deal as the teacher would have been grading based on the content of the essay, not the answer itself. Instead they just ignored the evil intent and nature of those terrorists and went right to putting all the blame on the shoulders of past generations.


I think they were pretty clear that it was current korporate amerika they were pissed at as well as past.

quote:

At the end of the day we all can't live in peace and we just need to accept that and either leave it be or duke it out.


Which is what they are doing quite effectively...It costs us tons of money and our world reputation and body bags...it costs them body bags.


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