RE: Does being religious mean that you are:

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Does being religious mean that you are:

More moral than the non-religious

13% (8)

As moral as the non-religious

36% (22)

Less moral than the non-religious

18% (11)

chose none of the above as I refuse to voice an opinion yet still vote

31% (19)

Total Votes : 60

(last vote on : 5/14/2014 8:05:37 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

Kirata -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:07:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 I asked a question... so shoo and let the grownups discuss Heh. A question that miscast what he said. But okay, so it's an English language problem then. Don't fall off your horse about it. You'll get better with practice. K.

Marini -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:08:40 PM)
quote: She saw that. I saw her see it. You did too. But she didn't say what holy means. I don't think she knows. I am not sure why you are asking me what the word "holy" means, but here goes. Holy means sacred/worthy of worship, etc. People like you, are the reason I usually don't get involved in these threads. I have a right to respond without being questioned, drilled, or demanded to answer your "questions". -I normally don't respond to people, when I don't like the "tone" in which they are addressing me. You can look up the word "tone". Maybe you have an issue with me saying I am a Christian, and that gives me faith. I can't imagine what your "issues" are with me. I feel sorry for you. As far as I know, I have never spoken to you before. Peace

Kirata -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:13:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake This should be easy. It is after all the product you are selling. I haven't seen her trying to "sell" anything to anybody. Are you always like this when your fur gets wet? K.

Marini -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:14:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake This should be easy. It is after all the product you are selling. I haven't seen her trying to "sell" anything to anybody. Are you always like this when your fur gets wet? K. Thanks K, it does take all kinds in the world. lol, first time I have been accused of "selling" something.

DomKen -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:22:02 PM)
And here we go, some of the religious declaring that the only morality is that delivered by some sky guy which must be obeyed because that same sky guy threatens eternal torment if they are not. How is that superior to someone who rationally arrives at the understanding that morality as this society understands it is mostly a set of rules which allow this society to function in orderly manner to the benefit of most of its members? Why do believers think the only path to moral action is threats?

Marini -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:24:34 PM)
quote: And here we go, some of the religious declaring that the only morality is that delivered by some sky guy which must be obeyed because that same sky guy threatens eternal torment if they are not. DK, in what post did I state anything about morality? Or anything else that you just stated? wow I am not suprised that I am being attacked, but this is almost more than usual. I will let you continue your Christianity/religion bashing. Peace and Blessings

Kirata -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:29:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And here we go, some of the religious declaring that the only morality is that delivered by some sky guy which must be obeyed because that same sky guy threatens eternal torment if they are not. And which posts would those be, specifically? K.

Marini -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:34:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And here we go, some of the religious declaring that the only morality is that delivered by some sky guy which must be obeyed because that same sky guy threatens eternal torment if they are not. And which posts would those be, specifically? K. lol, they don't exist. It's the voices in his head. These posts are actually entertaining tonight.

TheHeretic -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:39:36 PM)
Did you notice how he must define the faith of others for them, Mari? It's all our imaginary, "sky guy," while he places his faith (the defining characteristic of religious belief) in human rationality. Meh. When I get through this crazy patch at work, and feel like actually getting into something here, we'll talk lost jobs, and creating new, better ones. G'night. [:)]

Esinn -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:41:49 PM)
Following YHVH/Allah in any modern capacity means you are a bit silly.

DomKen -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:45:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And here we go, some of the religious declaring that the only morality is that delivered by some sky guy which must be obeyed because that same sky guy threatens eternal torment if they are not. And which posts would those be, specifically? K. Heretic's Yachtie's and tangentially Marini's.

DomKen -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 10:47:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Did you notice how he must define the faith of others for them, Mari? It's all our imaginary, "sky guy," while he places his faith (the defining characteristic of religious belief) in human rationality. Did I offend your delicate sensibility by not referring to your prefered sky guy with proper deference? Maybe you should have not disrespected every atheist and agnostic by saying we are all inherently amoral quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Those who believe in something, will have a foundation and framework to support themselves on when their values are tested. Those who believe in nothing, will not.

Esinn -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 11:10:04 PM)
I do not like anyone who believes their god will send my kid to rot in hell because my kid does not love their god. While I realize more sophisticated & savvy modern theists have came up with countless excuses to justify their feelings relevant to this. It just ain't for me. Though I am not the militant anti-theist type I once was.

Kirata -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/3/2013 11:38:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Maybe you should have not disrespected every atheist and agnostic by saying we are all inherently amoral quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Those who believe in something, will have a foundation and framework to support themselves on when their values are tested. Why are you trying so hard to paint yourself (and every other Atheist and Agnostic in the world) as a victim? You have a foundation with which to support yourself when your values are tested. You've even told us part of what it is: Do no harm. That's all that's being said here. To be moral, you must believe that some things constitute moral precepts, the ignoring of which will lead to suffering, and therefore to which you hold yourself. If a person claims to be a follower of Christ, we know what his or her moral precepts are. Or at least, we know what they should be. But if a person claims to be an Atheist, that doesn't tell us anything at all about what particular moral precepts they may hold. It is not a criticism of Atheists simply to observe that Atheism does not propound an explicit body of moral teachings that Atheists are called upon to embody and uphold. Why you believe in "do no harm" as a moral precept is a separate question, and possibly an interesting one. It is not inherent in Atheism, but you believe it anyway. From where do Atheists get their morality? In the final analysis, I think it comes from the same place that religions got theirs. From within ourselves. Religions are a mess because human beings are, whether they're religious or not. And we can strive for better, whether we're religious or not. K.

TheHeretic -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/4/2013 12:01:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Maybe you should have not disrespected every atheist and agnostic by saying we are all inherently amoral Maybe you should broaden your horizons of perception, and try to comprehend that I didn't. Good luck with that.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/4/2013 12:13:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Being Christian, one should have an idea of the moral compass I should operate by. If one is Muslim I too should have an idea of the moral compass they should operate by. When it comes to an Atheist, I really have no idea at all. I could agree with this, if it where the case that you could find either Muslims or Christians to actually behave in line with their religion's moral compass on a somewhat consistent basis. But seeing that I can count the people I know who ascribe to either religion and actually "practice what they preach" on one hand, I am as clueless about a self-identified religious person's compass as I am of that of an Atheist. In the end, the only way to find out about other's moral compass seems to be to both talk to them about the subject, and then observe whether or not they actually behave in line with their self-stated believes... and even that's a rather cumbersome and flawed method at best. Mostly, I just acknowledge that, aside from a few people I'm extremely close to, I go through life largely oblivious to what other people's moral compasses really look like.

BitaTruble -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/4/2013 12:13:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata From where do Atheists get their morality? What an interesting question. Hmm.. I think about being subjected to various violations of simple humanity at the hands of my birth mother and I think.. I never want to be like that so I try to be more or less the opposite and when I see traits of her that come out in me, I do my best to quash them. I have first hand experience living for years in a home where there were few morals to be found. That didn't work out so well and logic would dictate changing course when what you do isn't working. I determined that living with morals was superior to living without them based on just my own personal experiences.. but then morals, God.. that's pretty personal stuff, so it works for me. I appreciate that you make me think.

thezeppo -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/4/2013 12:42:11 AM)
FR I think its definitely possible for people to get their morals from their faith, but then equally possible for morals to come from elsewhere. Morality is a very personal thing. Religion is at root a guiding set of moral standards, but human nature adds that personal touch to it. I think its very easy for someone to be religious and amoral - in fact I know it is - just as its easy for an atheist to be moral. The opposite is also true. I definitely don't think its true that someone who shares your religion shares your morals.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/4/2013 1:01:45 AM)
FR~ Why should any religion have any basis or link to morality at all?? To me, a person's morality comes from within - not dictated by anything religious. Frosty said "I think being a believer gives you a crutch, a cage, an excuse and someone to pass the buck to when you don't have a satisfying answer to an important question" and to a certain degree I agree with that. Morality is very unique and individual to everyone. If you need the support or belief of a religion to give you your morality compass or your base then you are weak-willed and using that as a crutch/excuse for not having your own. And to back up that comment, I refer to something Marini said earlier - "I really have no idea how I would handle this world, if I didn't believe in a higher power". What is wrong in belief of the most ultimate power there is governing your own morality - YOURSELF!! This is exactly where the athiests and agnostics get their morality from - not some ethereal deity. Edit for typos.

jlf1961 -> RE: Does being religious mean that you are: (4/4/2013 1:05:41 AM)
If I may point out a nice fact, there have been a lot of serial killers that were religious.

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