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RE: Obama knows best - 4/11/2013 7:56:51 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
It's all based on AGI, Ron. You can go on through (the 1945 document was not scanned as well as the 1944 document) and find all that stuff out for yourself. Paying 62% of one's AGI is still quite fucking lot, isn't it?

Not if one's AGI is only, say, 25% of one's gross income. Because they used to allow a LOT more deductions than they do now.

So, 62% of your AGI isn't a lot? Are you willing to only keep 38% of your AGI?
Now, I do have to note that the rules have changed since 1945. What we call our AGI today is nothing compared to what AGI was back then. I posted links to the tax returns from 1944 and 1945. AGI was essentially created in 1944 to equate business income with salary/wage income. The adjustments were almost exclusively from dependents and the personal exemption.
Taking that into consideration, wouldn't 62% of one's AGI be an awful lot to pay in income taxes?

Of the people making $1.5M - $2M, the total AGI of those 12 people was $21.226M. Of that aggregate AGI, they paid $15.178M in income taxes. That's a whopping 71.5% of their AGI. The average AGI would have been $1.769M. The average after-tax income would have been a shade over $504k. Of all the people in the top tax bracket (AGI of $200k+), the least effective tax rate (that is the summation of the tax liability from each tax bracket divided by the AGI) was 62.2%. For every dolllar above $200k you earned, you got to keep 9¢.

Also note that the $200k referred to is in 1944/1945 dollars which correspond to $2.54/$2.3M in 2011 dollars.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Obama knows best - 4/11/2013 8:00:27 AM

mnottertail

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Where do current spending and revenue rank all-time? There, you will find the problem.

Revenue way down as a function of AGI. Spending medium as a function of revenue.

http://econdataus.com/outcur08.html

I forgot, you are inumerate. You can use a calculator, but don't know the reality and the context of the numbers.

Nofuckingbody is taxed at 62% of AGI not even close, most of your Willards of the Magic Underpants and 'People Corporations' are at about 12-15%, while the vast majority of the lower and middle class are much higher as a percentage of AGI.

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Post #: 122

RE: Obama knows best - 4/11/2013 8:14:34 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Where do current spending and revenue rank all-time? There, you will find the problem.
Revenue way down as a function of AGI. Spending medium as a function of revenue.
http://econdataus.com/outcur08.html
I forgot, you are inumerate. You can use a calculator, but don't know the reality and the context of the numbers.
Nofuckingbody is taxed at 62% of AGI not even close, most of your Willards of the Magic Underpants and 'People Corporations' are at about 12-15%, while the vast majority of the lower and middle class are much higher as a percentage of AGI.

Gimme the numbers, Ron! And, when we were talking 62.2% of AGI, we weren't talking about today, were we? We were talking about 1944/1945 taxpayers in the top tax bracket. And, no, no one will ever have paid 91% of their AGI as that tax rate only applied those dollars earned above $200k. 9¢ of every $1 earned over and above $200k was allowed to be kept by the taxpayer. Thus, the "leaky cap" on income I mentioned previously.

Edited to add:

OMB Historical Table 1.1
2012 actual Revenue: $2.45T (3rd Highest total revenue, all-time; <$120B less than 1st [2007])
2012 actual Spending: $3.54T (2nd Highest total spending, all-time; <$66B less than 1st [2011])

2001 Revenue/Spending (Clinton's final budget year): $1.991T/$1.863T
% increase R/S from 2001: +23.1%/+90.0%

2009 R/S: $2.105T/$3.518T
% increase from 2009: +16.4%/+0.63%

If Bush's spending was so horrible in 2009 (which it was), how is it that Obama holding the line isn't? Obama's estimated spending in his final budget year (2017) will be $4.247T, compared to $3.761T in revenues. If we meet the estimated revenue numbers for 2013, that will be the new record high revenue mark. If we match the spending estimate, we'll also set a record high mark in that category, too.

So, you either think that spending is fine and it's revenues that aren't high enough, or that revenues are high enough and that spending is too high. With revenues being near record highs, it would seem that spending is where the bigger issue is.

< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 4/11/2013 8:34:28 AM >

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Post #: 123

RE: Obama knows best - 4/11/2013 8:21:01 AM

mnottertail

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You can get the numbers from the US treasury. And I believe that link may be on that site. I have and others have repeatedly given that link out here. You will then have to normalize the dollar base to have a decent comparison. Gross numbers dont mean shit. Because, in 45 they fought a world war for 83 billion dollars or something for a year, now, that wouldnt last us in a little one for much more than a month on the ground somewhere.

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Post #: 124